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Problems with Spamhaus
David_Craig
Member
Recently I found out that Spamhaus is no longer responding to removal requests regarding EDROP entries.
Spamhaus seems to have the power to destroy whole hosting companies and doesn't even have a proper imprint on its website.
They are totally anonymous, hiding itself outside the EU in Switzerland.
This guy named Thomas Morrison, which is obviously not his real name, does what he wants.
Why is there no opposition amongst hosting companies regarding this organisation?
Is it OK that one single organisation has so much power?
prq.se in Sweden sent us this message some months ago regarding Spamhaus:
»We know that SPAMhaus is very near a terrorist organization, they assume things that is not a fact, and there is no way of fighting them. They blackmail operators to do whatever they want, also they are anonymous, they do not reveal who they are, so you never know who you are talking with. We are just waiting for the day when they start blocking IPs/blocks due to peoples views that they do not like.
They already do blocking out of the scope of their mission statement.
They do not follow their own written practices/rules/guidelines.
// Fredrik @ PRQ support«
Comments
These days, where everyone gets declared as terrorist organization.
Even Iraq declared the US as terrorist organization.
The support wrote "very near", but that is not the point.
The point is that this organisation has a tremendous influence on the internet and that there is nearly no opposition amongst hosting companies, which means Mr. Morrison can do whatever he wants and he isn't controlled by anyone.
What Spamhaus does is censorship, because hosting companies don't have the freedom to host VPN services which offer Port Forwarding any longer.
That's not OK, because these services are 100% legal in most countries.
@David_Craig: So you signed up here to pass on this info?
Yes, because I think it's important to make the whole thing public.
Maybe we are not the only one affected by it.
Freedom is an important right which should not be destroyed by any organisation.
Why did you let your subnet get into EDROP in the first place ?
You just joined with this alter-ego, what’s your other name here ?
Who is "us"?
It seems to me as if this discussion is moving in the wrong direction.
In my opinion, Spamhaus is a threat to small hosting companies and furthermore to the freedom of the internet if listings like this one won't be removed: https://www.spamhaus.org/sbl/query/SBL437655
So what should small hosting companies do if Spamhaus refuses to answer removal requests?
You are aware that the thing you linked was added to spamhaus less than 24h ago right?
Have you READ THROUGH the complaints on that site?
I'd like for a list of such malware/related stuff to be kept off the internet entirely.
@KVsolutions_NL
Spamhaus is very well organized sindicate of internet terrorists. They can do whatever they want, unregulated, unpunished. One day it will fall and we will read some of the most amazing story about cyber terrorists.
I believe spamhaus hq is on some abandoned oil derick in international watters.
As @teamacc pointed out, the specific listing that you cite doesn't really support your point.
You're going to have to be more convincing (by citing a specific case with details) if you want to try to convince anyone who isn't already convinced. There are plenty of (relatively) small providers around here who aren't complaining about how unjust Spamhaus is to them.
It sounds like you have an issue with Spamhaus but don't want to give any details regarding your case (and, in addition, you're probably hiding behind a second identity).
This is at least a bit more entertaining than wordplace.io spam
Spamhaus might be fishy but you aren't better than them.
I've just checked that listing. Please stop blaming others for being lazy to clean up your dirty customers*.
Does your VPN:
- allows vulnerability scanners?
- hosting botnet controllers? **
- allows malware distribution? **
** via port forwarding?
***** Even more:
Looks like to much fishy, same incidents for same IPs
Totally legal stuff
Yes, port forwarding is allowed on our customer's VPN service.
There is no law within the EU which says VPNs are illegal and that all ports need to be closed.
Running exit nodes of the Tor Network isn't illegal either.
There is also another issue: After all customers have been removed and a removal request for the EDROP listing was send out, Spamhaus needs to react on them.
Ignoring all removal requests is not appropriate.
Yeah yeah, okay.
You let customers abuse your network.
Your network was rightfully blacklisted because it is a source of abuse.
Sure, port forwarding is perfectly legal, but illegal activities through its use are on you. And you are fully responsible for stopping them immediately and not after getting listed. You got yourself into that pickle.
Spamhaus did their job perfectly well and classified your shit customers on your IPs as shit. And they did their job even better by not letting you do nothing (longterm solution) and ask for them to be unlisted.
Does law within the EU allows vulnerability scanners* or malware distribution?
You're attracting too much "abusive" customers which thinks that VPN is best for doing everything.
Overall, you seem don't understand or don't have any experience how to run VPN service. Just close your doors and never come again /vpn business
I'd vote to change the thread title. I am glad that Spamhaus ain't removing his range.
"What's wrong with me?" is more suitable.
I suspect that you guys have now succeeded in scaring away
DanielDavid Craig.Let me ask you a question:
Imagine someone sells knives.
Can the person which does that held responsible if a customer turns a knife into a weapon by hurting someone with it?
Doesn't apply to your case.
A knife is a physical product. Once it's sold, that's done. Bye-bye.
VPN is a digital product you must constantly provide.
It would be nice to own an own ip space and it could even be the worst most blacklisted and cursed subnet ever, doesn't really matter. Perhaps if you are sending mails it does, otherwise - no.
Sure, open your knife shop near prison and see how much "abusive" people you're attracting.
Well, the most important thing about VPN service is this.
Knowingly or not, your presence had a part in whatever activities your customers did. Therefore, you can be held responsible for whatever outcome your customers cause because it wouldn't have happened without you at the time of event.
What does this sentence mean? You are the only end-point in case you're running a VPN service that opens a port forwarding, it's indifferent you run a proxy or provide VPN.
But this clearly shows you don't only forward the outgoing traffic from your customers, but also "forward" the incoming. Do you run some kind of CDN? "Malware distribution" has nothing to do with VPN and the outgoing traffic, so you forgot to invent the story about your CDN company.
Customers in Iran, Saudi Arabia and China are happy that VPN services are available which offer port forwarding.
1.
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What a strange argumentation that is.
So you think all VPN services should impose measures of censorship simply because some
reckless people use that services to hide RATs for instance behind them?
Sure, sure, go ahead and keep getting IP ranges blacklisted.
You can argue all year long and nothing will change unless you change.
Once again: are you sure you have invented the right story? It looks like your story is about CDN, definitely not VPN.
Please stop confusing the terms VPN and CDN.
Yes, I'm talking about VPN services.
Seems to me you don't believe in free and unrestricted internet access.
I believe in it.
However, someone must pay for the troubles it cause. In this case, it's you.
People are jerks and they will abuse you.
In a way, yes. As a network operator it's your responsibility to keep your network clean. I have no doubt that you would have received abuse@ emails and just ignored them.
I don't understand how shutting down illegal & harmful activity on your network is censorship. You're obviously attracting customers that know you have this mindset and they are taking you for a ride.