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MaxMind Downgrades China to an overall higher fraud risk. - Page 2
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MaxMind Downgrades China to an overall higher fraud risk.

2

Comments

  • deankdeank Member, Troll

    People: I don't want my info to leak!

    Me: Take a look at yellow page (book version). If someone opted out of that, I can always look at online yellow page which ignores opt out, at least in my country.

    oKaY, doesn't work always but that's my take on it.

  • @AnthonySmith said:
    Maxmind text today CN IP:

    This order is very high risk, and we suggest you not accept it. This order is higher risk because the distance between the billing address and the user's actual location is so great. The order is slightly riskier because the e-mail domain, 163.com, is a free e-mail provider. The order is riskier because it comes from a country associated with high levels of fraud. You specifically blocked this order

    Maxmind text a few days ago CN IP:

    This order is very high risk, and we suggest you not accept it. This order is higher risk because the distance between the billing address and the user's actual location is so great. The order is slightly riskier because the e-mail domain, qq.com, is a free e-mail provider. The order is higher risk because the billing country and the country in which the IP address is located don't match. You specifically blocked this order

    @AnthonySmith said:
    Maxmind text today CN IP:

    This order is very high risk, and we suggest you not accept it. This order is higher risk because the distance between the billing address and the user's actual location is so great. The order is slightly riskier because the e-mail domain, 163.com, is a free e-mail provider. The order is riskier because it comes from a country associated with high levels of fraud. You specifically blocked this order

    Maxmind text a few days ago CN IP:

    This order is very high risk, and we suggest you not accept it. This order is higher risk because the distance between the billing address and the user's actual location is so great. The order is slightly riskier because the e-mail domain, qq.com, is a free e-mail provider. The order is higher risk because the billing country and the country in which the IP address is located don't match. You specifically blocked this order

    I suggest that you cancel your support:

    Qq.com 163.com 126.com sina.com 139.com

    There are many more. These are the most commonly used free mailboxes in China. I suggest you block these.

  • @VirMach said:

    @Creling said:
    I think it is partly because of the large population of China. Maybe the MaxMind just count the amount of fraud orders from China instead of caculating the ratio.

    I'd expect nothing better from Maxmind. We're not sure why we really use them anymore; I guess it's because there's no better alternative and the outputted information can be useful for a human. Going off just the risk score is useless.

    We've contacted them to get geolocation fixed in their database for our servers, and they deny it because we offer VPNs (not like all other hosts can't already be used as a VPN.) It's like okay, make no effort to actually verify the location of the server, you'd rather report the wrong location because you think we're lying to you so that probably means you're not doing much to do correct geolocations when customers order from us.

    Then they completely miss flagging obvious VPNs as a VPN. They flag any random IP they want as a potential open proxy because it was cycled as one maybe like a year ago.

    They add random weights to countries so even know we probably haven't got a single chargeback from Vietnam, they're all considered fraudulent.

    If the customer misspells anything in their address it goes completely crazy instead of just checking it against the country.

    There's been cases where it thinks an order is "fine" when it's not. Like this one I'm looking at right now, distance from IP address is 9849 and they're clearly fraudulent -- good thing one of our staff caught it instead, but the risk score is extremely low.

    We basically have to go through every single order manually anyway on top of it.

    AnthonySmith said: Today I noticed the following from an order from China in the MaxMind anti Fraud details:

    "The order is riskier because it comes from a country associated with high levels of fraud."

    As for this, I'm looking at the most recent orders from China and they're all 1-3%

    Thank you for your clarification. Right now I knew why Chinese loves Virmach so much. Some suggestions, try ipip.net and experience the most accuracy IP geoloacations from them.

  • First-RootFirst-Root Member, Host Rep

    @starrydots said:

    @naing said:

    @FR_Michael said:

    @Kiwi83 said:
    Soon there will be many Barack Obamas and Justin Biebers trying to order $15/yr VPS.

    Got one today: city san diego, country germany, ip from hong kong and phone number from switzerland. Asked for refund after we requested verification documents.

    Name happens to be Kim Jung-un?

    Many people don't want to leak information to others. Understandable.

    Some providers must provide accurate country, region, street, very strict.

    That is perfectly fine for me but as a provider I don't want to deal with people who don't trust me enough to tell me who they are.

  • KuJoeKuJoe Member, Host Rep

    @FR_Michael said:
    That is perfectly fine for me but as a provider I don't want to deal with people who don't trust me enough to tell me who they are.

    Perfectly said!

    What I tell everybody who orders with a VPN and fake info: "If you're withdrawing money from your bank with a ski mask on, you're either doing something you're not supposed to or you need to find a bank you trust."

  • vidavida Member
    edited November 2018

    First off, we Chinese are not used to pay with credit card because we have more advance payment system called 'Alipay' and Wechat pay, so can you tell me a reason why should we enter the correct billing information?

    Secondly, most of the Chinese user order your extremely cheap VPS for building VPN/Proxies, is this disobeying any TOS?

    Thirdly, if the hosting provider gets hacked, the user's information will leak. And as I know, the WHMCS doesn't encrypt user's billing information, who will take responsibility on the consequences?

    Last but not least, as I know, Chinese buyers are one of the biggest groups of costumes in the hosting area. WHY ARE YOU REFUSING MONEY? FOR YOUR PURE LITTLE RACISM OPINION?

  • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith Member, Patron Provider
    edited November 2018

    vida said: First off, we Chinese are not used to pay with credit card, so can you tell me a reason why should we enter the correct billing information?

    This is a paypal issue 9/10 times.

    I dont know about China but in the USA/EU companies are legally obligated to collect accurate billing information when providing service, aside from that we have customers on our servers and we dont like anonymous users having free reign without any accountability.

    vida said: Secondly, most of the Chinese user order your extremely cheap VPS for building VPN/Proxies, is this disobeying any TOS?

    The problem is more when they don't read the TOS at all, so yes sometimes it is they run tor for example.

    vida said: Thirdly, if the hosting provider gets hacked, the user's information will leak. And as I know, the WHMCS doesn't encrypt user's billing information.

    No one forces anyone to order, people choose to order, they also choose to ignore the terms. that is the problem.

    Thanked by 1First-Root
  • vida said: Chinese buyers are one of the biggest groups of costumes in the hosting area

    What kind of costumes are you in? Girls'?

  • A consumer has the right to choose with whom they want their service to be deployed; same apply to the provider as well. If your country, ip or your email provider is marked as high-risk profile, that is your problem, not the providers.

  • starrydotsstarrydots Member
    edited November 2018

    @vida said:
    First off, we Chinese are not used to pay with credit card because we have more advance payment system called 'Alipay' and Wechat pay, so can you tell me a reason why should we enter the correct billing information?

    Secondly, most of the Chinese user order your extremely cheap VPS for building VPN/Proxies, is this disobeying any TOS?

    Thirdly, if the hosting provider gets hacked, the user's information will leak. And as I know, the WHMCS doesn't encrypt user's billing information, who will take responsibility on the consequences?

    Last but not least, as I know, Chinese buyers are one of the biggest groups of costumes in the hosting area. WHY ARE YOU REFUSING MONEY? FOR YOUR PURE LITTLE RACISM OPINION?

    I don't like to pay by credit card. I use Alipay and WeChat to scan the two-dimensional code directly to pay for it conveniently and quickly.Credit cards are out of date in life.

  • I guess the only reason people use MaxMind here is WHMCS has built in support.

  • Excuses are always endless.
    Juse be well prepared before you sell, and it depends on whether you want to do business or merely make sales.

  • Useless point, Chinese customers everywhere (Like me in Britain), and Maxmind can not recognise us :P

  • @KuJoe said:

    @FR_Michael said:
    That is perfectly fine for me but as a provider I don't want to deal with people who don't trust me enough to tell me who they are.

    Perfectly said!

    What I tell everybody who orders with a VPN and fake info: "If you're withdrawing money from your bank with a ski mask on, you're either doing something you're not supposed to or you need to find a bank you trust."

    China blocked many links, such as Google, and almost all products were blocked. VPN is required for access. Many users are unable to access the provider's website, and users choose to use VPN to order.

  • jsgjsg Member, Resident Benchmarker

    @FR_Michael said:

    @starrydots said:
    Many people don't want to leak information to others. Understandable.

    Some providers must provide accurate country, region, street, very strict.

    That is perfectly fine for me but as a provider I don't want to deal with people who don't trust me enough to tell me who they are.

    Careful there! There are also perfectly valid reasons for that. An important one being that (a) not every provider acts carefully with customer data, (b) there have been/are quite some cases where providers were hacked (sometimes from the inside) or had internal struggles leading to customer data being exposed.

    The problem is that even the best meaning providers can't be sure that they won't be hacked and they also can't somehow magically pull back customer data once they are hacked/leaked and on the internet. And once the customers data are out there, tough luck for the victimized customers.

    Plus the chinese customers might actually need to provide false data because possibly (not sure, not a chinese lawyer) having a server outside China or in particular when saying certain things on those servers (say a bog) might lead to ugly consequences for them.

    That said, I'm not blindly defending the Chinese. I do believe the providers here that with chinese customers there is a higher probability of refund, paypal disputes, and generally trouble.

    And I guess that's the core of the problem. Both sides have reasons to not trust each other.

  • deankdeank Member, Troll
    edited November 2018

    To be fair, 99% of people don't read ToS because they cannot understand it.

    Either due to language barriers or plain stupidity.

  • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith Member, Patron Provider

    jsg said: And I guess that's the core of the problem. Both sides have reasons to not trust each other.

    But the real and immediate consequences and risk are almost all on the host.

    Thanked by 2KuJoe Clouvider
  • AnthonySmith said: l

    @colingpt said:
    lol lol lol, great! So that most hosts will not be bothered by Chinese anymore?

    It is a good thing for both sides.

    And this may be why Bandwagon and Virmach earned a lot from Chinese customer but you don't :lol:

    Thanked by 1colingpt
  • Why not just buy from no-question-asked providers? Something like Cockbox

    Thanked by 2AnthonySmith eol
  • deankdeank Member, Troll

    This is nice. We are all taking to walls.

  • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith Member, Patron Provider

    lowendclient said: And this may be why Bandwagon and Virmach earned a lot from Chinese customer but you don't

    Choice?

  • Like the Chinese aren't guilty of racism themselves. It's not just Whites and Blacks but other Asians as well. Unfortunately the rest of Asia isn't much better. I've lived, worked and traveled there enough to say this with ABSOLUTE certainty.

    So when I hear them scream RACISM now, I can't help but laugh at the utter hypocrisy.

  • deankdeank Member, Troll

    Is there any solid proof that Bandwagon and Virmach earned "a lot"?

    What's "a lot" in lowend terms? 70 dollars?

    Thanked by 1inthecloudblog
  • @jsg said:

    @FR_Michael said:

    @starrydots said:
    Many people don't want to leak information to others. Understandable.

    Some providers must provide accurate country, region, street, very strict.

    That is perfectly fine for me but as a provider I don't want to deal with people who don't trust me enough to tell me who they are.

    Careful there! There are also perfectly valid reasons for that. An important one being that (a) not every provider acts carefully with customer data, (b) there have been/are quite some cases where providers were hacked (sometimes from the inside) or had internal struggles leading to customer data being exposed.

    The problem is that even the best meaning providers can't be sure that they won't be hacked and they also can't somehow magically pull back customer data once they are hacked/leaked and on the internet. And once the customers data are out there, tough luck for the victimized customers.

    Plus the chinese customers might actually need to provide false data because possibly (not sure, not a chinese lawyer) having a server outside China or in particular when saying certain things on those servers (say a bog) might lead to ugly consequences for them.

    That said, I'm not blindly defending the Chinese. I do believe the providers here that with chinese customers there is a higher probability of refund, paypal disputes, and generally trouble.

    And I guess that's the core of the problem. Both sides have reasons to not trust each other.

    I agree. I think most of them are due to server failure, server line failure, poor business attitude and inconsistent with the information advertised, which will cause customer dissatisfaction / refund.

    Thanked by 1colingpt
  • @deank said:
    To be fair, 99% of people don't read ToS because they cannot understand it.

    Either due to language barriers or plain stupidity.

    Because most of Chinese customers don't understand English, not to mention reading the TOS.

    I wonder why don't these IDC indicate directly 'We do not accept order from China because we don't understand Chinese, so we can't provide quality service to Chinese customers.' and translate these into Chinese? In this way Chinese customers will keep away from your website.

  • deankdeank Member, Troll
    edited November 2018

    @shallownorthdakota said:
    Like the Chinese aren't guilty of racism themselves. It's not just Whites and Blacks but other Asians as well. Unfortunately the rest of Asia isn't much better. I've lived, worked and traveled there enough to say this with ABSOLUTE certainty.

    From what I've seen, Japanese look down on every other asian sub-races. Koreans look down on Chinese and Chinese look down on everyone else but whites.

  • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith Member, Patron Provider

    lowendclient said: Because most of Chinese customers don't understand English

    Then why order from hosts that don't offer service in Chinese and then make what is not understood the hosts problem?

    lowendclient said: We do not accept order from China because we don't understand Chinese, so we can't provide quality service to Chinese customers.' and translate these into Chinese? In this way Chinese customers will keep away from your website.

    Tried that @FAT32 helped with the translation, made no difference.

    Thanked by 1bugrakoc
  • deankdeank Member, Troll

    Because it's cheaper and better.

    Of course, that doesn't excuse them but they don't care.

  • @lowendclient said:

    @deank said:
    To be fair, 99% of people don't read ToS because they cannot understand it.

    Either due to language barriers or plain stupidity.

    Because most of Chinese customers don't understand English, not to mention reading the TOS.

    I wonder why don't these IDC indicate directly 'We do not accept order from China because we don't understand Chinese, so we can't provide quality service to Chinese customers.' and translate these into Chinese? In this way Chinese customers will keep away from your website.

    Ha ha, I agree. Chinese mother tongue is not English. It is true that more than 90% of people choose to leave them.

This discussion has been closed.