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SpeedyKVM cancelled my service and refunded me.
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Comments
Well, I really hope speedykvm ticket replies body text is included into email notifications, Else, OP might not be able to post proof.
Did you run CDN on your VPS ? I wonder why they would offer you CDN service if you don't need one ?
@jarland I suggest to change title. Since refund was offered immediately, it is not a scam.
Why do you think that @jarland can change the title?
My bad... apologize
Here is me, asking upfront and signalling my "intentions" with their service.
https://speedykvm.com/billing/viewticket.php?tid=269487&c=Uts5S2gK
I don't know. I would have been happy to discuss any concerns. I explicitly stated I would only be announcing/originating my own /22 -- no downstreams and no customers. Instead of asking or having a discussion, my VMs were terminated as I was using them and then this appeared in my email:
https://imgur.com/a/ak7f3hn
I already have. that doesn't stop me from calling a spade a spade. SpeedyKVM advertises a service they do not -- or at best selectively -- provide. They will take your money, then terminate your services while offering a wildly/absurd alternative or a refund.
this is a classic bait and switch scam.
now that we have proof -- including a link to their own damn ticketing system -- can this be moved back to the proper original location of Reviews?
The end is nigh.
Ban both, the user and the host.
Based on what you've shared, it appears that SpeedyKVM jumped to an erroneous conclusion.
Unfortunately, (even if correct) you're unlikely to receive an apology or a clarification from them, and certainly not on LET. This isn't their modus operandi.
SpeedyKVM has become a sensitive and delicate topic on LET, which most mods prefer not to touch, but there was no way for you to know this (being a newcomer).
title changed to reflect reality, SpeedyKVM is an Incero brand, no question, even the now banned speedykvm account has an Incero email address
In my understanding of the term "bait and switch", it is a scam even if you never pay them anything. It is a scam even if you buy the substitute product and it works and you are happy with it. It means they deceptively make an attractive offer but when you try to buy it, they won't sell it to you and they offer you something more profitable instead. Once they refuse to fulfill the original offer, you have been scammed, even if you walk away immediately. The effort you put into responding to the fake offer ("bait") becomes a sunk cost that softens you up for the real offer ("switch"). So the scam is that they manipulate you with an offer that they don't intend to fulfill.
Is that what happened here? We don't know yet. But if yes, offering a refund doesn't undo the scam, any more than a bank robber offering to give back the money undoes the robbery. The only way to undo the scam is to fulfill the original offer, but even that's only a partial undo because they only did it after a big hassle. Monetary compensation for the hassle would go further, but it's not going to happen. The refund offer is a red herring.
OP, how about posting all of the communications you have had with SpeedyKVM (every email, every ticket) with sensitive or personal info redacted. Thanks.
I'll say it: you can put whatever you want in the TOS but if the state attorney general was notified about possible law violations in a company's TOS, they'll send a C&D
Yep, looks like standard Incero TM customer support.
Once OP posts all the corroborating ticket history, i think it should be moved out of off-topic.
A free market only works when the facts are equally accessible.
Anthony, good call on adding Incero to the title. And bait&switch would be added too, if given sufficient evidence? What kind of evidence is required?
Willie is too rational for LET. Scares me.
Well if the OP wants to post more I will read it and decide (as can any other mod), I added incero to the title because there seemed to be some confusion about that early in the thread.
Honestly my personal perspective is that something happened that we here do not know about that probably caused incero to decide against offering service, which is fair enough and they gave the OP a complete refund.
Often these threads are made in anger and deliberately leave out key facts to force a 1 sided narrative.
I find @willie to be incredibly neutral, that's a good thing, a very good thing for someone doing a moderator role.
We are all open to being wrong with half the facts I guess, burden of proof is on the OP
You could also add "The end is nigh" in the title, too.
Or I could run a find and replace to remove all references to it.
This is not how you prevent apocalypse.
From the pre-sales question:
Answer:
So the OP made it quite clear he wanted to extend his anycast footprint, let them know his ASN, and even asked about communities.
At the same time from this, it seems that it's a feature only only really meant to offer IPs routed to VPS instances, probably not a real 'anycast setup'
I'm guessing due to Taylor / Level 1 not knowing what Anycast is, they didn't tell the OP that their company is lazy and worthless when it comes to support or actually setting up the product. Once Gordon or the 'network team' realized it would be more work than announcing BGP in one location, they gave a bullshit one sentence reply of 'pay us $1000 or cancel'
This could have been avoided by dumb-shit management looking at tickets before accepting orders with no expectation of fulfilling them.
Also, FWIW, it looks like OP actually found a Google Sheet who named these idiots, and came to LET after the fact. He wasn't cancelled because he was an LET member, he was cancelled because he wanted the service he paid for... likely 3 VPS setup across 3 locations with BGP announcement.
Incero and their brands are shit, enough said.
I agree with @willie that bait & switch would be a scam, but I'm not sure that bait & switch has been established here, and I'm afraid that it may be difficult to establish unless there's some revealing correspondence that we don't yet know about.
My take is that they simply changed their mind about accepting the OP (@aag) as a customer, but why exactly is unclear. The conclusion about CDN was either an honest mistake or an excuse to get rid of the OP.
terms clearly state:
so they clearly are nervous about CDN. perhaps the order being accepted was a mistake, and they could have been more understanding with their second response. but its not bait and switch. what they should have done is clearly stated that CDN is not what they want
OP indicated he had one vps - not three or more though?
Naturally incero can chose to do business or not do business with people as they please - but this doesn't sound like a case of getting ToS'd.
Ideally this would have been caught by them and stopped in the sales ticket rather than after activation - but mistakes do happen.
Then, when you order VPS instances and the BGP service, they terminate all VPS instances
Sure sounds like more then one to me. Add in the vps in each location in the original query it was most likely three vps at least.
he said anycast & 3 locations:
I assume that is what scared them off
There are zero facts being left out. I ordered and paid via paypal. the VPSes were provisioned. I logged in, configured them. And about 8 hours later, the New York VPS shut down as I was logged in via VNC. I looked at the panel, it said Terminated as status. I went to an already open ticket, was typing "my NYC VPS shows terminated and is shut down" when the Seattle and Dallas ones also shutdown, and then showed up terminated. Before I could open a new ticket or finish the one I was updating, I got a response -- as screenshot up there -- giving me that ridiculous offer.
Literally nothing happened. I turned the Debian 9 installed into OpenBSD 6.3, and was configuring loopbacks in preparation when it went down. There was no other communication to even screen shot for you.
I can't prove a negative (that there are more tickets/emails that I am not sharing) -- I specifically asked my account to be deleted. and what is in my email is already screenshot for you. the initial ticket (opened via the web panel I can no longer access) effectively asked if they had a community policy, and please send a full table for both address families, no default route.
I would love to know what conspiracy you think is afoot -- what I could possibly be omitting that precedes the email response I screenshot. I am a sucker for good conspiracy theories and I'm genuinely curious just what could possibly be missing from the narrative that ends with "you want $1000/m CDN services or cancel & refund"?
I made my point here. I think it's ridiculous ya'll can't call a scam a scam. there are many scams where no money is lost. this is one of them. I lost a solid four hours of my time. all for assuming a hosting company who advertises services for sale and TAKES PAYMENT FOR THEM would actually provide them.
dont't want me as a customer? that's fine. a reason would be nice. since, you know, I did pay up front. but don't waste my time and then insult me with some bullshit about CDN services. I'm not competing with your bargain basement shit network anyway, Incero.
choke on a large wurst, Gordon!
~fin~
^ This is as far as I have read, if your next reply is not a full and complete posting of all interactions via ticket you can be sure this entire thread will be gone.
Calm down, yes I caught your last line while typing this reply and I agree, he really can, but I don't like one sided agendas being pushed to suit an angry narrative.
Really either way, Incero have a reputation and its not a new one for doing EXACTLY this, if you value your time do research on companies before you use them.
Do you mean https://imgur.com/a/ak7f3hn which is from someone named George? If you also got something from Gordon, we need to see it.
We need to see this too.
You posted a ticket response from "George" (above) but you haven't posted the ticket that George responded to. Please post it. You posted a link (https://speedykvm.com/billing/viewticket.php?tid=269487&c=Uts5S2gK) to another ticket so maybe you have a link like that to ticket #985521, the one in your screen shot from George.
You are saying there was further evidence related to your transaction, but you destroyed it before coming here. A hint: part of the reason for written communications is so there is evidence to present in case of a dispute. Also, most ticket systems I've seen confirm tickets by email, so post the info.
Destroying evidence and then making unverifiable claims about what it said is unconvincing. You have to preserve it in order to use it. So I think we are heading toward "better luck next time" territory. But now you know.
Does anyone here have a theory about what OP was actually trying to do with the anycast?
Not just at SpeedyKVM but incero.com themselves do this. I had one Centmin Mod user report they signed up for a Incero auto deploy server at https://incero.com/autoservers and that server was terminated after it order was accepted and processed and termination reason was the same file serving (CDN like) is not allowed. Strangely their Incero TOS doesn't mention such rule https://incero.com/terms-of-service and was surprised as I always read the TOS of web hosts. I know SpeedyKVM one does mention it though. No point in offering all that bandwidth if a user can't actually use it !
@aag just don't waste anymore time on this, move on and find a web host more suited to your needs.