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Clubuptime.. Gone Again?
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Clubuptime.. Gone Again?

Ash_HawkridgeAsh_Hawkridge Member
edited February 2012 in General

Sorry if i have missed anything but regarding this but i just attempted to go to the website and found this http://www.clubuptime.com/

Deja vu?

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Comments

  • WTF?!?!? ¬_¬

  • FranciscoFrancisco Top Host, Host Rep, Veteran

    I'm assuming he got serious pressure from the courts since he was opening a new brand.

    There was a thread somewhere that he owed burst cash as well?

    Francisco

  • And now HostFail are here attempting the same thing.. LMFAO

  • FranciscoFrancisco Top Host, Host Rep, Veteran

    @VMPort said: And now HostFail are here attempting the same thing.. LMFAO

    INB4NORDIC

  • INB4 UptimeVPS

  • InfinityInfinity Member, Host Rep

    Lol, they're all going to try again, all they want is money.

  • INB4123SYS...oh, wait, the life support hasn't completely quit on that one yet.

  • So fail. I never got my refund either! (lol)

  • @Francisco said: There was a thread somewhere that he owed burst cash as well?

    No, we don't owe BurstNET any money. We owed them $25 for a service that never worked right that we let lapse. That's what you read on WHT.

    We closed our doors again for legal purposes. We're re-opening under another LLC and business name to ensure the stability of our service, especially with threatened legal action against Club Uptime LLC from Softlayer. We don't want to risk our service disappearing again.

    As much as the name Club Uptime fits, it's not worth the risk in using.

  • so you never paid the debt to SoftLayer?

    Youu never refunded all customers @Kairus

    And after everything you plan to come back?

  • @clubuptime said: We're re-opening under another LLC and business name to ensure the stability of our service, especially with threatened legal action against Club Uptime LLC from Softlayer

    Why are they threatening you? Do you still owe them money?

  • I filled out the form on your website to get a refund like 2 months ago? I don't really care about the money, but if you say you're going to refund people and create a form on your website for it...

  • That was the entire reason of Club Uptime collapsing in the first place. Effectively, we took on a Game Server Provider. Money "disappearing" in the previous owners hands started a rolling snowball. After he was fired, we found thousands of dollars in unpaid bills to various providers such as Teamspeak. Then, to top it off, every time the Minecraft software updated to a new version, it's system requirements were doubling.

    In the end, I trusted someone to run a platform whom I shouldn't have trusted and by the time I realized what was going on, it was too late to fix it.

    You can read more about it here: http://www.lowendtalk.com/discussion/19/clubuptime-refugee-thread

  • @Kairus: We still have every intention of paying the employees and refunding those who deserve them legitimately. We don't have any income. Had we opened our monitoring service as Club Uptime LLC, Softlayer would have come after us. We're still waiting to see what they do before we re-open our doors as another provider (In a different industry segment altogether: We will NEVER deal with VPS/Hosting again).

    Once things settle down and we have money coming in again, the first people that will be paid are those who we owe money to, starting with the clients. We owe less than $2500 to our clients to be distributed as refunds as of now. We've taken out loans to pay off PayPal and our merchant provider for credit cards to ensure those clients get paid off.

    We don't deny that we owe funds, but we've been backed into a corner that we're trying to get out of so we can finally pay everyone back.

  • @clubuptime: Could you explain whats so expensive about Minecraft hosting? A VPS with 3gb dedicated RAM costs like 20€/month but people on the Minecraft forum are selling them for 40-50€ or so. Doesn't that make an awesome margin?

  • We didn't deal with VPS's. We used Dual Xeon 5620 and Dual Xeon 5675 servers with Raid 10, 24-48GB Ram, and SSD's in a lot of cases running Windows Server 2008 R2 and TCAdmin. We paid $314/month per physical server of those specifications with 4TB bandwidth on a gigabit connection.

    We would fit about 100-150 clients per server with a minimum package. At first, it wasn't bad. Once Jacob lowered the prices to $2.99/month on the other hand, that killed any profit we were making. He did that about a week before I fired him.

    With our original pricing plans, it would have worked. But the margins still aren't all that great once you consider software licensing, staff pay, accounting expenses, legal expenses, and more. It all adds up fast.

    We used some custom stuff to make Minecraft run stupidly efficiently in low amounts of Ram. The only reason I haven't published what we did is because it would cripple most VPS hosts (effectively, it enabled multithreading within Minecrafts server application) CPU wise. There are only 2-3 Minecraft hosts that know how we operated, and all of them know because they used to work for us. You really DONT need lots of Ram for Minecraft to work well. You just need a lot of CPU power to offset the requirement for RAM.

  • @clubuptime said: Once Jacob lowered the prices to $2.99/month on the other hand, that killed any profit we were making.

    Why is micraft-servers.com able to make a profit and grow at $1.60 a seat then?

  • FranciscoFrancisco Top Host, Host Rep, Veteran

    @clubuptime said: No, we don't owe BurstNET any money. We owed them $25 for a service that never worked right that we let lapse. That's what you read on WHT.

    Didn't even read it, hense the '?' :) Someone was jabbering about it on IRC.

  • We used premium hardware that cost nearly $7,000 per physical server brand new in a premium facility. I'm willing to bet that minecraft-servers.com doesn't use Softlayer for their client servers. Their main corporate website is hosted with Secured Servers off of a bandwidth blend that's marginally comparable. That, and I'm certain that they're not paying what we did for hardware that's properly comparable. They don't even bother to publish their server specifications, so there's no way to know for sure what they run their network on.

    When you pay for premium hardware, you need to charge a premium price. It was my fault for not babysitting Brohoster as much as I should have: I trusted the guy running it to be able to do basic math and price the services accordingly. I also trusted him to pay the bills, too. You live and you learn.

  • @clubuptime said: We used premium hardware

    You bought on credit, that is the reason minecraft-servers.com is here today, you aren't. I'd put their hardware up against what you were using any day and it will out perform it simply because you were using a very poor configuration, I mean windows.

    @clubuptime said: It was my fault

    I'm glad to see you almost take responsibility finally.

  • clubuptimeclubuptime Member
    edited February 2012

    @miTgiB said: You bought on credit, that is the reason minecraft-servers.com is here today, you aren't. I'd put their hardware up against what you were using any day and it will out perform it simply because you were using a very poor configuration, I mean windows.

    >
    I didn't create the platform, Jake did. I bought it from him, kept him on board. We were in the process of getting ready to move to Linux with that platform.

    Windows Server 2008 R2 is actually a very powerful platform that's extremely stable. Rather than bashing a product due to personal bias, base your statements on facts. We had 103 servers total, with 70 or so being Windows Server 2008 R2 and the rest being CentOS 5.x. The Windows servers did not perform any better or worse with the sole exception of Java performance (when using the Apache projects JDK rather than Sun Microsystems JDK). Either way, that's not the point.

    We didn't "buy on credit". We leased our hardware. Our cost to run a distributed platform across five datacenters with the hardware we used would have cost millions of dollars to put together had we not used Softlayer. Everyone loves to argue, but arguing is useless when you don't even have accurate information as your basis of argument.

  • @clubuptime

    I'm fascinated with how Brohoster managed their pricing/hardware, but I didn't realize that you guys had managed to enable multithreading within Craftbukkit/vanilla... The only project that currently is close to doing so is the Spout server, which is still in early development. I'm impressed, mind sharing more about your experience with running Brohoster?

  • It's not a true multithreading. I don't know much about how it works in code, but it essentially allowed the process to be distributed between multiple processor cores to speed up the clock cycles for the Java instance. This allowed for everything to run VERY efficiently on low amounts of ram with the tradeoff that the CPU time would be racked up.

    It's not even a modification, technically. It's a series of flags already recognized by Minecraft that when used properly makes everything function insanely well.

  • It's just parameters you can pass to the JVM that allows garbage collection to run in a separate thread. Here's how I start my minecraft servers:

    screen -dmS minecraft /home/jre1.7.0_01/bin/java -d64 -server -XX:+UseConcMarkSweepGC -XX:+UseParNewGC -XX:+CMSIncrementalPacing -XX:ParallelGCThreads=2 -XX:+AggressiveOpts -Xincgc -Xmx800M -jar craftbukkit-0.0.1-SNAPSHOT.jar nogui
  • There's a more to it than just that which we did, but it's close.

  • JTRJTR Member
    edited February 2012

    @clubuptime JRE 6 or JRE 7 on the servers?

    I personally use the following line for my server, but to my knowledge there isn't really a way to do more than run GC on another thread without modifying the jar file.

    java -server -d64 -Xmx5G -XX\:PermSize\=128m -XX\:MaxPermSize\=256m -XX\:+DisableExplicitGC -XX\:+UseConcMarkSweepGC -XX\:+UseParNewGC -XX\:+UseNUMA -XX\:+CMSParallelRemarkEnabled -XX\:MaxGCPauseMillis\=50 -XX\:+UseAdaptiveGCBoundary -XX\:-UseGCOverheadLimit -XX\:+UseBiasedLocking -XX\:SurvivorRatio\=8 -XX\:TargetSurvivorRatio\=90 -XX\:MaxTenuringThreshold\=15 -XX\:+UseFastAccessorMethods -XX\:+AggressiveOpts -Djline.terminal\=jline.UnsupportedTerminal -jar craftbukkit.jar nogui
  • @clubuptime said: You just need a lot of CPU power to offset the requirement for RAM.

    Heh, guess I wasn't the only one doing it ;)

    Thanked by 1MrAndroid
  • JTRJTR Member
    edited February 2012

    I can't find the flags in question, but I think I figured it out — you found some way to run garbage collection more often, which cut down on RAM usage (and could be offloaded to another thread)... Am I close? It makes sense, because this would increase CPU usage, allow for the use of multiple cores, and it should also decrease RAM usage... Maybe by setting the -Xms flag lower?

  • @JTR said: I can't find the flags in question, but I think I figured it out — you found some way to run garbage collection more often, which cut down on RAM usage (and could be offloaded to another thread)... Am I close? It makes sense, because this would increase CPU usage, allow for the use of multiple cores, and it should also decrease RAM usage... Maybe by setting the -Xms flag lower?

    Xms is just the starting heap size. You're probably just thinking of -Xincgc, it enables the incremental GC which scales well across multiple threads.

  • @Kairus

    Maybe... Xincgc didn't do much about decreasing RAM usage, although admittibly I am using a 5GB heap.

    I also tried decreasing the heap size to 1GB, but it reserved the same amount of RAM (approximately 600MB with both heap sizes). I can get per-core CPU usage info in htop, but I can't tell what's being used for garbage collection and what's being used for Minecraft itself, and I have several plugins that spawn their own threads for their use.

    I also played with Xms, which decreased the memory usage by a negligible amount.

    If I am correct, the cpu usage is 10-15% with nobody online, and 20-30% with one user online, but I can't tell if this core is being used only for Minecraft or for the garbage collection also.

    I am not very good with java tuning as you might be able to see :)

    What kind of CPU usage are you seeing with a idle/empty server and that startup line? And what CPU are you using?

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