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Hetzner server hard disks "confiscated by district court"??? - Page 2
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Hetzner server hard disks "confiscated by district court"???

245

Comments

  • @raindog308 said:

    @doghouch said:
    @bsdguy You should start writing a tl;dr snippet for us poor mobile users. It’s hard sometimes to make out what you write when the text is so tiny :(

    I read it all on a 3yo phone...and I have middle aged eyes!

    My eyes are fine, but my screen is too dim.

    My iPhone doesn’t put out the brightest backlight, nor does it help when I’m on the verge of falling asleep.

  • @deank said:
    Keyboard warrior rule #1: Make your message short because not many reads tl;dr.

    I'm not a keyboard warrior and I don't care a fuck about those, oh so smart rules. Some things just can't be properly put down in one or two sentences.

  • deankdeank Member, Troll

    Up to you. Personally, I think it's better that my messages are read instead of being flat-out ignored or skipped.

    Thanked by 1levnode
  • @deank said:
    Up to you. Personally, I think it's better that my messages are read instead of being flat-out ignored or skipped.

    My posts are read - but certainly not by all (are yours?). Plus: I strongly prefer not be read due to "post too long" than due to "insignificant or meaningless 1 liner".

    Btw, although that might strike some here (you?) as utterly strange: Not everything in this universe is about me, me, me. This thread, for example, is about helping (oh well, as much as one can) someone who sits in shit.

    Thanked by 2bugrakoc that_guy
  • @bsdguy said:
    I suggest that we get our feet back on the ground.

    For a start, as OP seems to not live in germany and from what little he told us I do not even think that there is trouble with the german law. I rather presume that there is trouble brewing in OP's country and that the german simply acted upon an inter-agency agreement.

    ....

    germany (the politicians) paints itself as very liberal and open (so much so that most germans believe it themselves), is however in fact a strange breed. Indeed very liberal in some areas but arch-anal in others (unfortunately many IT related things being in the latter category).

    Wow, he really said everything important.

    I think there is nothing to add more.

    Thanked by 1levnode
  • deankdeank Member, Troll

    Why is he so angry anyway? Man, adults these days...

    Thanked by 1levnode
  • @bsdguy said:
    Btw, although that might strike some here (you?) as utterly strange: Not everything in this universe is about me, me, me. This thread, for example, is about helping (oh well, as much as one can) someone who sits in shit.

    Sorry, I did eventually read the post on my laptop.

    Thanked by 1levnode
  • ClouviderClouvider Member, Patron Provider

    @bsdguy said:

    @deank said:
    Up to you. Personally, I think it's better that my messages are read instead of being flat-out ignored or skipped.

    My posts are read - but certainly not by all (are yours?). Plus: I strongly prefer not be read due to "post too long" than due to "insignificant or meaningless 1 liner".

    Btw, although that might strike some here (you?) as utterly strange: Not everything in this universe is about me, me, me. This thread, for example, is about helping (oh well, as much as one can) someone who sits in shit.

    To a degree. The someone who ‘sits in shit’ doesn’t actually give a shit about it, he only wants his server back. He doesn’t feel obliged to respect the laws of the hosts’ country. This kind of behaviour actually led to this situation, and yet no lessons learnt. It’s very arogant and hence not much love will be given to the OP.

    Thanked by 2levnode mikho
  • @Clouvider said:
    To a degree. The someone who ‘sits in shit’ doesn’t actually give a shit about it, he only wants his server back. He doesn’t feel obliged to respect the laws of the hosts’ country. This kind of behaviour actually led to this situation, and yet no lessons learnt. It’s very arogant and hence not much love will be given to the OP.

    a) I'm not his judge; I just try to help a fellow human being. And b) If you are right (and I think you quite probably are) then he got an excellent opportunity now to think again - and hopefully learn - about respect vs. ignorance as a result of the latter.

    Thanked by 2levnode mikho
  • raindog308raindog308 Administrator, Veteran

    deank said: Keyboard warrior rule #1: Make your message short because not many reads tl;dr.

    deank said: Up to you. Personally, I think it's better that my messages are read instead of being flat-out ignored or skipped.

    These posts make me sad because

    (a) it took less than 30 seconds to read that post, all words, from start to finish. I know because I timed myself at 26.25. And that was the slowest possible mode of reading. If you started a paragraph and weren't interested you could skip, etc. So either 30 seconds is a huge investment in time, or people read slowly, both of which are kind of sad.

    (b) most things worth discussing cannot be condensed down to lol wut. I often don't agree with @bsdguy but he's obviously well-spoken and has things to contribute. I'd rather see a good 5 paragraphs (OMG! practically War & Peace!) from him than random shitposting with dumb comments and random gifs...which you guys always complainin about...

    (c) "keyboard warrior" is...an insult? the keyboard and its use are the heart of computing my friend. You should be made to read the emacs manual cover to cover.

  • KuJoeKuJoe Member, Host Rep

    levnode said: Moreover, I am living in Asia and I am not tied to EU law so I don't think I will have the problem with them.

    Depending on the offense I wouldn't be to sure of that. At the very least I would find a lawyer both familiar with EU law and your local law that speaks your native language if it's not English so nothing gets lost in translation and you have a good defense in the event you need to call somebody and don't have the luxury of Googling a good lawyer later.

  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran
    edited October 2017
    1. It may be related to political trouble at home. Maybe someone read some BBC pages from Iran using the OPs server as a remote desktop and "confessed";
    2. Illegal things are not only about hosting. You can get into trouble online with the law without hosting anything;
    3. The fact everyone thinks of CP when something is seized speaks volumes about:
      a, How big the problem is;
      b, How effective the propaganda is, invoke CP and anything goes.

    Same as the war on drugs, islam, migration, etc, the problem wont be stopped by seizing disks and putting people to jail then free after decades to be lynched, even when they are guilty of possessing child porn they did not create while people abusing kids in their family, marry them legally at ages as low as 12, (not in asiastan, but in midwestern US) are getting away with it. I bet some stupid fucks dont even know having sex with a minor is illegal as long as marriage is allowed.
    People spend so much energy to fuel hate and stop gay marriage, how about stopping child marriage first?

    The ToS violation has not been invoked and the servers not terminated, maybe Hezner expects the OP to continue to pay for the service while not functional?
    That being said, they are the ones which suffered the loss, probably the disks were rented along with all hardware, trying to recover some loss is natural, but...

  • @raindog308 Now it only we had a dark mode for LET.

  • MasonRMasonR Community Contributor

    @doghouch said:
    @raindog308 Now it only we had a dark mode for LET.

    There is one using the Stylish firefox/chrome extension

    Thanked by 1levnode
  • SetsuraSetsura Member
    edited October 2017

    Same

    Edit: Also considering OP seems less than concerned here, I'd imagine either A: he actually didn't do anything wrong or B: he didn't know he did or maybe C: they took the wrong server's HDDs

    Thanked by 1levnode
  • @MasonR said:

    @doghouch said:
    @raindog308 Now it only we had a dark mode for LET.

    There is one using the Stylish firefox/chrome extension

    I meant on mobile :(

  • MasonRMasonR Community Contributor

    @doghouch said:
    @MasonR said:

    @doghouch said:
    @raindog308 Now it only we had a dark mode for LET.

    There is one using the Stylish firefox/chrome extension

    I meant on mobile :(

    Yeah :/ I'm with ya

    Thanked by 1levnode
  • pikepike Veteran
    edited October 2017

    @MrFunken said:
    The German court already has confiscated 5 complete dedicated from me. On these servers was only a tor exit node running.

    German FEDs are after online drug markets because most of the online drug sellers come from germany. Running TOR exit nodes or anything TOR or i2p related within germany or even EU isn't a good idea atm.

    Thanked by 1levnode
  • @raindog308 said:

    levnode said: Do you think I should a new disk from Hetzner and get back to work or keep waiting for a few days?

    Oh and by the way you're involved in a criminal investigation now. Maybe getting your system back on line is not actually the most important thing in your life now?

    Why is something sad so thanks attractive?

    Thanked by 1levnode
  • pikepike Veteran

    @perryoo11 said:
    Why is something sad so thanks attractive?

    Because the way OP asked for help indicates he doesn't understand what happened to his server. This in mind, the comment may be the most important answer in this thread.

    Thanked by 1raindog308
  • OP, does your country have an extradition treaty with Germany? Might be time to double up on your Y-fronts.

    Jesting, though. Seems like there's more than enough legal/technical/commercial experience on this board to cover your erse.

    Thanked by 1levnode
  • levnodelevnode Member
    edited October 2017

    Hi,

    Thank you for all of your post, I have read all of them and I have thanked all of you as a sign of appreciation, especially @raindog, @bsdguy, @MrFunken . I cannot make reply individual so I will try to reply some common issue:

    1- The CP, well, I didn't think at first that when I mentioned it, everyone would find it as a thing to dig in. Actually, I do not host any kind of files, just VM. Port 80, 443, 25 are blocked. Since the server has only 1 IP, I do NAT for VM and only 1 remote port is opened for each VM. I can prove this if required. As @raindog has said, I am thinking of CP because it's the first and only thing I can think of when a end customer disks are seized by law.

    2- To someone who scolded me for only caring about getting the server back. I see I have 2 problems here: 1)The problem with German law. 2) Getting my server online back. For 1), I am an end customer and I know what I've done. I am sure that I am "not a dick" by any mean. As many of you have said, dealing with it may take a lot of time, so it's definitely not the urgent problem. 2) Getting my server online back: I have jobs to do with the server and it might be pending if the server is unreachable. Maybe it's not important as 1) but it's urgent. Following the Eisenhower rule, I should do it first.

    3- Hetzner did provide me a file number and ask me to contact the agency. I will try and report it back here.

    4- I am still confuse about the role of Hetzner here. From the viewpoint of a customer, now my service is down, what is their responsibility?

    Again, thank you for all your help.

    P/s: I like the dark theme.

    Thanked by 1iKeyZ
  • Clouvider said: To a degree. The someone who ‘sits in shit’ doesn’t actually give a shit about it, he only wants his server back. He doesn’t feel obliged to respect the laws of the hosts’ country. This kind of behaviour actually led to this situation, and yet no lessons learnt. It’s very arogant and hence not much love will be given to the OP.

    @Clouvider : I reply you individually since I found your comment insulted me the most. I was your customer in the past and what I am running on Hetzner was being run on your dedicated server in the past. I respect your ToS and EU law. Your ToS is also written based on law and some general rule (don't be a dick for example). I have read your and Hetzner ToS thoroughly and completely follow it. Yet, you are still insulting me for something I don't even know. I have to be a lawyer to use your service?

    Thanked by 1Adam1
  • MikeAMikeA Member, Patron Provider

    NAT VPS... wew, there's one of the problems. Good luck.

  • ricardo said: OP, does your country have an extradition treaty with Germany? Might be time to double up on your Y-fronts.

    Jesting, though. Seems like there's more than enough legal/technical/commercial experience on this board to cover your erse.

    No, I have 25 servers running at Hetzner, ~80 at Online.net and 20 at Colocrossing. Nothing happened.

  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran

    levnode said: No, I have 25 servers running at Hetzner, ~80 at Online.net and 20 at Colocrossing. Nothing happened.

    Just curious, what are you running there? It may shed some light on possible issues. If you are renting VPSes, then someone did something you are not aware of or their VM was hacked although it is much less likely on NAT ones...

  • raindog308raindog308 Administrator, Veteran

    levnode said: 4- I am still confuse about the role of Hetzner here. From the viewpoint of a customer, now my service is down, what is their responsibility?

    Well, you've violated their TOS.

    I don't know how due process plays into that, but when the authorities come and seize gear you're on, that's probably covered under section 7.3 of their TOS: https://www.hetzner.com/rechtliches/agb

    Indeed, 7.3 would seem to suggest that perhaps you have some liability.

    7.3 If the customer’s web content is in violation of paragraph 6 of obligations, particularly in violation of legal prohibitions or morality, they shall be liable to us for all of the resulting direct and indirect damages, including property damage. In addition, the customer agrees to free us from all claims by third parties – no matter which kind – that may result from illegal internet content. The exemption obligation includes liability for all legal defence costs (e.g. court and attorneys' fees).
    

    On the one hand, to your knowledge you did nothing wrong. On the other hand, you're a customer who's caused their hardware to be taken and held by the authorities.

    Thanked by 2kassle tux
  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran

    I am not sure it applies, it specifically mentions web content, OP says he has no web server, just some remote desktops and android emulators, also that it uses NAT so hosting something is not very straightforward in the first place.

  • nobizzlenobizzle Member
    edited October 2017

    @AnthonySmith said:

    levnode said: I am not familiar with EU law and CP is the only thing that I know it's prohibited to host.

    Erm, especially in Germany the list of things illegal to host is as long as both of your arms.

    That was interesting.. been thinking about this yesterday. The question that came up was, what does Host really mean?

    Does hosting mean "Having the data on the server and offering it to others via Webserver, FTP, or any other way you could think of" or does it just mean "Having the data on the server, even if its just for myself"?

    And I'm not talking about the GTC of the hoster. What I'm talking about is what the feds will probably not like.

    I mean, are there categories?

    CP, Terrorism, probably TOR exit nodes, etc. = very bad; you'll probably persued whatever you do with the stuff
    media, software, music on the server = bad, but actually no one cares unless you share it with others?

    probably no one can answer this question with certainty, but what are your thoughts on that?

    best regards

  • Well, the problem is resolved. I have re-checked the server and ... bingo. I've found that my hard disks are still there. I have tried to install the server using their installimage command and now my server is back online again. I don't even know why Hetzner support said my disks are confiscated and even provide me a file number and the agency to inquiry. Very very confused :D

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