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What if it's HTTP/2, though?
You guys are making a mountain out of a molehill.
OP recieved a bogus abuse report, told them to provide complete information and got a mean email back. Never knew this community gets butthurt this quickly. We get dozens of shitty abuse mails, ignore them and are still in the business.
yes when visiting the IP with the appropriate domain header, I get a 404 not found error! And comeso have probably sent more than 20 emails in the last 24 hours to dispute this, saying I must access the domain via a German IP. Apparently our IPs in HK, USA and LT all don't work and so we cannot test from any of our existing stations!
What a joke.
Why not just ask your lawyer?
Last time this happened. Some guy with a funny moustache was involved
Things are a little more complex. You see, you can have all TOS you want but you'll often need the diverse governments to enforce them. That is the relevant context. The germans - just like many others, too - simply want a reasonable legal situation. Not having your TOS in german, for instance, will make it pretty hard for german (or french, or ...) authorities or courts to enforce anything because the alleged infringers will simply say "We didn't even know. How can we stick to rules we don't know?"
Just like everywhere else. And btw, no, you will not be arrested that easily, e.g. for refusing to have your TOS in german or french or whatever.
So, there is nothing to worry about. Just a bunch of IP wannabe enforcers sending out menacing (e)mails.
Let's keep it simple and short. They must a) provide relevant information and b) be based on credible evidence, and c) tell you on what legal code/law their demand is based.
Well noted, that legal code must not necessarily be relevant where you are but it must, at the very minimum, be relevant in germany. Professionals will usually provide international equivalents, anyway (like: german law §x.y.z and internationally convention abc on copyright).
If, as seems to be the case, they don't provide even the relevant and specific information you'd need if you were of good will you may just burn their request; it's meaningless and no german cop or court would do so much as moving a finger anyway.
So? I hereby claim to be a martian who can fly by mere power of thought and some arm flapping. Will you care?
Pardon me but both you and @jarland are bullshitting here. For a start pretty much every country ticks similar. Just have a look at the us of a re. enforcing their "laws" on pretty much everybody.
Moreover: "germany does xyz" based on some idiots box asserting some bullshit and trying their game? Ridiculous.
german laws can not possibly extend beyond their jurisdiction. Just look up the definition of "law".
The only way to enforce ones laws upon others is sheer use (illegal, btw) of some de facto power like military or control of the global reserve currency. germany simply doesn't have the muscles to do that.
There may, however, be international legal frameworks and their local implementations. germany, of course, has some of those like many others. And indeed that whole IP/copyright/dmca complex is an example. germany simply has local implementations of those just like other countries do (and btw. relatively civilized ones at that).
I don't see anything "german" here.
All I see is an incompetent idiot company specialized in terrorizing people all over the globe (which just happen to be german; similar idiot and shadowy companies exist pretty everywhere).
To the server the law where the server is physically located applies. But if you are operating an illegal site located in i.e. Tonga you can still be caught and prosecuted in other countries. Study some cases of torrent websites that were taken down.
Certainly not. They can file directly in Hong Kong, copyright laws are pretty much international.
Doesn't copyright issues fall under criminal law?
But you said earlier that HK does have copyright laws. Your sovereignty of other nations will not hold 1 Minute when your C&E comes after you.
However, you are not the site operator, or domain owner. And to ask for more information is perfectly reasonable. In fact, I would tell them what you wrote, that the IP is hidden via Cloudflare and you need more details to get to the owner, sub-owner, sub-sub.... and so on.
I am no legal expert, but I can't see any liability from your position, specially since you want to cooperate but can't for technical reasons.
Charlie Chaplin?
It's probably misquoted.
I think what he/they meant is,_ if a website with illegal content is targeting a German audience most likely there is a (or some) German national behind it that can be tried in Germany. _
A good example was the website kino.to (an illegal movie stream/download site). TLD in Tonga, server in Russia, 10+ individuals, mainly Germans, not all in Germany.
In German:
https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/kino-to-Polizeiaktion-gegen-Filmpiraten-1257486.html
In English:
https://torrentfreak.com/kino-to-raided-in-massive-police-operation-admins-arrested-110608/
No they specifically said that wherever German people or Germany is involved, German law applies, and reiterated that was a fact and fact was fact and our opinion does not change those facts.
And I said that I can fly. You seem, however, (quite reasonably) not to care.
a) company xyz != germany (or any other country)
b) someone asserting something != assertion true
(someone else) "man with a moustache"
Man, you are so yestercentury. germany has evolved. It's now a still occupied colony of the us of a. Btw, a colony that is so utterly obsessed with guilt and "never again!" that they get mass raped and murdered by migrants and label anyone against that as "nazi".
Kindly note: Such a labelling competition will always and invariably be lost by the non-germans. Nothing and nobody is quicker than germans in applying "nazi" labels.
And yet I find it amazing how arrogant this person/company is, trying to assert their German dominance!
I don't actually believe them of course. This thread is really more of a rant. I'm not asking if they have any legal standing; I flat out reject such a position and am voicing my disdain for such attitudes. Such attitudes are seriously disrespectful. Now obviously you cannot really compare this to 'man with a moustache', but in my mind, to joke about that is far better than to disregard another country's entire legal sovereignty.
I don't think anyone here seriously believes that such attitudes are indicative of your typical German. The whole Nazi thing is a sensitive sore spot in Germany, and generally speaking, I would try to be respectful in discussing such things. But if someone comes along to assert themselves over others, disregarding the laws and practices of foreign entities operating in foreign jurisdictions, I'm sorry but I don't see why I should tip-toe around that issue. Why should I care if I offend them? They certainly don't care.
Now I didn't stoop that level. On the other hand the complainant did feel it necessary to mock me by challenging my ability to understand simple technical jargon, or ability to read and understand written English.
See, said and meant isn't always the same. And it doesn't matter. Depending on the offence it can still hit you badly. HK C&E has quite a bit of power.
Would you care if the site is a child porn site?
The reasonable thing is to ask for more information to get the facts together.
Done and done. But they refused to do anything more, and just reiterated that the links (all 404) are all the proof.
As I said, the domain does not resolve to our IPs and the links are all 404. So there is no solid connection to our IP and none of the links work any way. I ask for something more concrete and they refuse. I'm not gong to go OUT OF MY WAY to do their job.
That's completely different and you know it. I would take CP much more seriously of course, but even if this was what we are talking about, I would still want to see some demonstrable proof that it was happening on my servers! I'm not going to shut down a client server without some proof of wrong doing unless I receive a court order to do so. Otherwise anyone can submit a complaint and get any site shut down.
I simply ask for evidence that can be reasonably verified. And I don't think having to buy access to a German proxy, signing up for an account, navigating and translating a site, and hunting for infringing material is reasonable. That's their job!
No, I wouldn't - because I couldn't. Unless that gang (happening to be in germany) provided proper and specific information, I as a provider could do nothing.
Returning your killer argument attempt (because that's what it is): Would you care if I, a provider, would turn against you and maybe kill your perfectly legally operating server based on some idiots bringing forward arbitrary allegations against you with no evidence nor specific and relevant information?
Take screenshots and mail them the 404s back.
I think you can't do anything more. You did your best to resolve it.
Getting a German IP to login and check the site is IMHO beyond your responsibility, that falls under investigation and isn't your job.
I totally understand your frustration.
Oh, and please: Can we already stop the "german" bullshit? We are talking about a shadowy company that acts utterly unprofessionally and unreasonably and might as well be a french one or, for that matter, operate out of Nigeria or Mexico or pretty much any other country.
This thing is about idiots and shadowy wannabes - and not about germany, german laws or german anything.
Sorry for the killer argument. I would take reasonable steps to find out more what the complain is about. That's were randvegeta got stuck. It's up the German site to provide more details.
I totally agree with the argument that one can't take down a site because somebody complains (without proof).
But you said to not care about the complain, no matter valid or not.
That I wouldn't do.
German.
This, kids, is why you should never confuse your Bad Dragon with your Tesla Coil.
To be fair, laws in each country differ. There may be some similarities, but the specifics matter. Generally speaking prostitution in HK or the UK is actually legal, but all the peripheral work surrounding it is not (like pimping or operating a brothel).
More on point, when it comes to copyright infringement, there is a difference between hosting copyright content, sharing a link, or allowing someone to share a link. I guess in the US, there is little distinction between these actions, but in HK and probably most of Europe even, there is a difference and they are treated differently under the law.
If I share a link on Facebook to some movie or TV show, is Facebook automatically responsible and liable for the actions of it's users? What about the host? The transit provider? How far down the chain does responsibility go?
Let's assume that our client really is guilty for a moment. Why is Cloudflare not responsible? They are actually customer facing! Why are our upstream providers not responsible? They provide connectivity between our servers and cloudflare? Why is my client responsible? He's a reseller! Why is our client's client responsible? Maybe his client/users posted a link to a 3rd party server? Or maybe our server is just another hop in the reverse proxy chain for further obfuscation (i.e we are being used like Cloudflare)?
So actually the specifics kind of matter. You could argue US law applies as Cloudflare is the one actually serving end users. You could argue HK law applies, if indeed the server is ours. But I struggle to see where German law applies, and even if there are HK or US equivalents, it's still not correct.
a) I'm way uglier than that guy
b) Nope, it's not about "german"; I'd write the same if that shitbox happened to be a french one or whatever.
Only exception for me: us of a, simply because they really force their "laws" upon the world incl. kidnapping people.
Nope, wrong. Note the context. I wouldn't care because there is nothing to care about.
And btw, that whole thread would probably not exist, if that shitbox had acted halfway professionally and given @randvegeta something to work with.
The US and China perhaps?
No, from what I know the China thing is more about gagging and limiting their own people (which may have a good reason or not; I can't and don't want to judge that). Besides, at least currently China wouldn't have the muscles to force their will or laws upon the world.
Well, that's at least my personal view. I'd respect it, though, if yours were different; after all, you are close by while I'm far away.
Let's keep it professional and call it 'complainant'.
They did provide a website. randvegeta gets 404's. To their defense, the complainant most likely didn't know about the IP block.
I am also pretty sure it's not a 'german only' IP thing.
randvegeta, I suggest you try different devices, including phone data without wifi. Maybe try PCCW, SmarTone or HKBN, you might get lucky.
Depends on your point of view I guess. In my eyes, China != Hong Kong. in China's eyes, Hong Kong = China, and Hong Kongers are 'ungrateful dogs'.
There have been many cases of anti China HKers who have been abducted by the Chinese. Bare in mind HK is supposed to have a separate legal system, currency and government. China is supposed to allow for at least 50 years (30 remaining) of essentially independent rule. But now they are dipping there fingers everywhere, in violation of the handover treaty.
Sadly the UK seems unwilling to do anything about it because they are too worried about loosing Chinese investment and other trade opportunities. China's Economic power and influence will give China greater and greater control. Only the EU as a whole and the US can assert more influence (in my opinion).
Why are you so fucking obsessed with this shit? Try this... try that... You are almost as annoying as those trolls.
So what help did your message actually provide? Why you call those people trolls if you don't have all information? Getting facts is wrong? I don't think so.
At least I tried help randvegeta a little.
Because that's what they are. Bunch of annoying self rightous wannabe internet sherifs sending out unverifiable complaints and acting like dicks when confronted with the fact. Instead of working with him and at least providing some screenshots and offer access to some vpn (a commercial one preferably as i would'nt trust their own network to send untampered data) they send him a load of rubbish.
By making him jump through even more hoops? Those clowns say the site wants a german ip. He could get one (and probably realize its either complete bullshit or just not the "right" german ip... all that after being stuck with a bill for vpn services those guys are surely not going to pay...) or just tell them to take their unreasonable requests elsewhere. Playing trivia games is what hes pissed about and rightfully so.