Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!


Free Speech
New on LowEndTalk? Please Register and read our Community Rules.

All new Registrations are manually reviewed and approved, so a short delay after registration may occur before your account becomes active.

Free Speech

I have a "legal" question regarding hosting a website in regards to free speech. No this doesn't mean I want to host warez and need offshore. One of my clients has tasked me to find hosting for a political website. It will be like a forum/messageboard/chatroom etc. The only thing random internet users will be able to contribute is text. Only moderators or admins will be allowed to post images. Regular users are going to be text / link only. All that being said...Will I have any legal issues hosting this in the United States? Is there a better place?

There will be no porn, no warez, nothing except text. However I'm guessing this text will be very vile sometimes. One political party talking crap and hating on another political party. I'm sure people will be extremely critical of politicians, countries, certain political/social issues, religions, etc. We are talking 4chan level rudeness. Basically anything goes as long as its not terrorism related. As long as its only text that the average user can contribute that will prevent warez, kiddy p0rn, and dmca type stuff from being posted...Will I be safe hosting this in America? Is there a better place?

«1

Comments

  • WSSWSS Member

    I wouldn't host anything in the US these days- we're all special snowflakes and you'd be bullying someone by either making fun of them, not allowing them to speak, or making fun of their speech.

    Hope that helps.

  • deankdeank Member, Troll

    US would not be safe at all. Europe won't probably be, either. China/Hong Kong, nope. S.Korea, nay. Japan, nope.

    Find an obscure location.

  • AidanAidan Member
    edited July 2017

    Romania.

    Edit: As @William said, best to avoid Romania for due to censorship laws.

  • YuraYura Member
    edited July 2017

    There is no freedom of speech.

    Thanked by 2bugrakoc asf
  • Norway, Switzerland, and Iceland rank high for "freedom of press". I wonder how that would carry over to hosting internet websites? https://rsf.org/en/ranking

    Thanked by 1Nuntius
  • Flokinet, 1984

  • MikeAMikeA Member, Patron Provider

    I don't see why not? As you said, there is nothing terrorism related. You'd probably have a worse time finding a host that would care or not.

  • joepie91joepie91 Member, Patron Provider

    Not an answer to your question, but I'm pretty amused at the combination of your thread topic, nickname, and automatically-generated Gravatar :)

  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran

    Needs to be a place where free speech is legal and the provider is passionate about providing it. The US is a great place but not just as a blanket statement, it needs to be a provider that is willing to stand up and say "Show me the court order or get out."

    If I recall, limestone networks hosted hackforum for a time or still does? They might be a good fit. OVH is usually fine for most stuff too. Just keep backups and don't be afraid to hop providers.

  • You might want to try https://privatelayer.com - hosted here in Switzerland but with company leading towards Panama - heard people are using it for this.

  • YmpkerYmpker Member
    edited July 2017

    Perhaps Maple Hosting?
    https://www.maple-hosting.com/blog/dmca-ignoring-safe-netherlands-vps-hosting-dedicated-servers-hosting/

    Live Chat said:

    We have a lot of free speech sites, yes - we're a perfect fit for that.

  • WilliamWilliam Member
    edited July 2017

    bluesega said: You might want to try https://privatelayer.com - hosted here in Switzerland but with company leading towards Panama - heard people are using it for this.

    Again: CH protects no foreigners. CH protects Swiss. The gov has zero interest to protect anyone not EEA citizen.

    WSS said: I wouldn't host anything in the US these days- we're all special snowflakes and you'd be bullying someone by either making fun of them, not allowing them to speak, or making fun of their speech.

    Not the case at all. If your ISP is willing to not bulge to idiotic requests and you have a lawyer hosting in US is perfectly safe, see 4Chan and various hacking boards.

    Ympker said: Live Chat said:

    NL has no free speech as the US. The holocaust denial laws are only the start.

    Aidan said: Romania.

    Romania has censorship laws. Extensive for EU even.

    Thanked by 1Aidan
  • KuJoeKuJoe Member, Host Rep

    If it's purely political then one thing to keep in mind is that the biggest censors won't use legal means to take you offline. Look for a place that is able to mitigate (and willing to tank) large DDoS attacks. IMO governments and law enforcement will be the least of your concerns.

    Thanked by 1aboanas93
  • Then I think OVH will be a good fit under budget ^

  • Is this about the protest July 12th? US regulation is confusing, I don't know what their policy, It was looked weird, why they asking us to join the protest. It's an internal matter on USA, they have own conflict and then try to do looking for support internationally, and then what? , But for me, I'll try to realize, I'm not gonna to place my hosting on there, sound looks like there is no guarantee if it will be fine all data or not keep on secure.

  • ksugksug Member

    Re: legal,
    (US) business premises are not free speech venues. It's up to each host to either allow or prohibit your content. Just make sure that the content steer clear of clear-cut illegal things like child porn, death threats, terrorism, etc.
    Keep in mind that a host might allow your content today and ban it tomorrow (in the face of boycott, ddos for example).

    TLDR: ask, and remember they could change their mind in the face of pressure.

    Disclaimer: not a lawyer.

  • @d2itsme said:
    Is this about the protest July 12th? US regulation is confusing, I don't know what their policy, It was looked weird, why they asking us to join the protest. It's an internal matter on USA, they have own conflict and then try to do looking for support internationally, and then what? , But for me, I'll try to realize, I'm not gonna to place my hosting on there, sound looks like there is no guarantee if it will be fine all data or not keep on secure.

    It's Starts from USA then other Countries ISP will for sure copy this. As they will see $$$

    Thanked by 1yokowasis
  • @GalaxyHostPlus said:

    @d2itsme said:
    Is this about the protest July 12th? US regulation is confusing, I don't know what their policy, It was looked weird, why they asking us to join the protest. It's an internal matter on USA, they have own conflict and then try to do looking for support internationally, and then what? , But for me, I'll try to realize, I'm not gonna to place my hosting on there, sound looks like there is no guarantee if it will be fine all data or not keep on secure.

    It's Starts from USA then other Countries ISP will for sure copy this. As they will see $$$

    yeah, you absolutely right Janus.
    What can be expected now? It's about trust matter. If you see the problem show in your face it's mean they have problem much deeper inside. See
    https://www.battleforthenet.com/

    Thanked by 1GalaxyHostPlus
  • srvssrvs Member

    @theblackesthat said:
    Norway, Switzerland, and Iceland rank high for "freedom of press". I wonder how that would carry over to hosting internet websites? https://rsf.org/en/ranking

    rsf.org is a fascist leftist organization, they are spreading fake news and fake rankings. In this "ranking" Germany before USA !! - LOL - Germany 2017 has censorship like in Soviet Union. Not satisfied with refugees, less security in country = hate speech. https://www.forbes.com/sites/janetwburns/2017/06/30/germany-now-allows-up-to-57m-in-fines-if-facebook-doesnt-remove-hate-speech-fast/#7ceba66e761d

    I recommend you , your client, Poland (#2 in Free Speech Index worldwide and #1 in Europe / 2017) . http://www.pewglobal.org/2015/11/18/appendix-a-3/
    Your client will be 100% satisfied.

  • WilliamWilliam Member
    edited July 2017

    srvs said: Germany 2017 has censorship like in Soviet Union

    Not true at all.

    Do you speak German at all? Are you able to read the constitution (Grundgesetz) and the multiple cases in the last years around this topic?

    Are you aware this concerns companies, foreign only on top, and is the same law that is in effect since 25+ years on local companies? And that it only applies in specific cases? And that nearly all EU members, notably France, Hungary and Spain, have worse laws?

    If not you are not qualified to talk here at all, might want to go back getting your info from RT.

    Poland also has worse laws. I know that; they still want me for hacking over a server i never ran myself and will jail me if i go there. That is far from freedom of speech in any way.

    Prime example: Promoting abortion on a website hosted in Poland gets you jail. Yes, really. Not very freedom of speech either.

    Thanked by 1Nuntius
  • YuraYura Member

    @William said:
    might want to go back getting your info from RT.

    That was savage :c

    Thanked by 1vimalware
  • WickedWicked Member

    @theblackesthat said:
    Norway, Switzerland, and Iceland rank high for "freedom of press". I wonder how that would carry over to hosting internet websites? https://rsf.org/en/ranking

    Norway will send you down the river in a heartbeat. As mentioned already; privatelayer.

  • srvssrvs Member

    @William All not true what you are telling , you listen too many RT, CNN, Axel Springer fake media.Send me proofs (beweise) which websites was blocked , urls please.

  • YuraYura Member

    It's amusing how two opposite sides of argument are accusing each other of siding with RT.

    RT is literally Hitler now...

  • I plan on running the whole thing behind cloudflare. I know how to prevent cloudflare from leaking origin IP so I think I will be fine on the DDOS front. Its kind of sad that we even have to have this discussion. I guess freedom of speech is becoming merely an idea, no matter where you are hosting.

    It seems like its less about the country and more about finding a host that will have the balls to stand up to complaints that aren't valid. And I guarantee this site will have zero valid complaints as all it will be is discussion via text. No warez, no ddos, no porn, etc. Maybe I'll contact some of the current hosts I'm using and ask them how they would handle such a controversial website.

  • joepie91joepie91 Member, Patron Provider

    @theblackesthat said:
    I plan on running the whole thing behind cloudflare. I know how to prevent cloudflare from leaking origin IP so I think I will be fine on the DDOS front. Its kind of sad that we even have to have this discussion. I guess freedom of speech is becoming merely an idea, no matter where you are hosting.

    It seems like its less about the country and more about finding a host that will have the balls to stand up to complaints that aren't valid. And I guarantee this site will have zero valid complaints as all it will be is discussion via text. No warez, no ddos, no porn, etc. Maybe I'll contact some of the current hosts I'm using and ask them how they would handle such a controversial website.

    I don't recommend using CloudFlare. There's also very likely to be at least one way of finding the origin IP that you're not aware of.

    Anyhow, perhaps you could give UrDN a shot? I've heard good things about them. I believe they're lurking around here on LET as well.

    Thanked by 1FlamesRunner
  • randvegetarandvegeta Member, Host Rep

    heh.. this all seems to fit in with an idea I had a couple years ago. Obscured hosting!

    DDoS Protected servers with the location completely obscured as mitigation happens in multiple locations around the world, and latency is always between 200 and 400ms no matter where in the world you connect from.

    Stick that behind Cloudflare and you're doubly obscured! You wouldn't need to, but you could waste the time of some people trying to figure out where your server really is.

  • YuraYura Member

    @randvegeta said:
    you're doubly obscured!

    Double security thru double obscurity. That's funny, I give you that.

    Making something annoying enough to deter attackers works good enough when attacker is driven by monetary incentive. At some point it becomes not worth his trouble - business only, nothing personal.

    In the case of sites that OP describes this doesn't work as well. People motivated by overwhelming emotions, ideological agendas and personal hatred multiply their efforts when their target is elusive enough but within their reach. Manhunts organized on reddit and 4chan are viscera examples how wasting time and money is not a problem for those driven with intangible ambitions.

  • @Yura said:
    It's amusing how two opposite sides of argument are accusing each other of siding with RT.

    RT is literally Hitler now...

    lol Yeah. But I like RT. Of course you shouldn't blindly belive them (or ANY media outlet), but it's interresting to hear a different interpretation of what happened. And also to hear things that aren't mentioned in your own country.
    It's IMHO a useful counterpart to the US-EU-Israel-NATO-Media.

    On topic:
    What about bahnhof.net, maybe portlane.com and Leaseweb?
    They are known to be loyal to free speech and their customers, carefully checking LEA requests with lawyers, requiring court orders etc.
    LW also publishes a summary of such requests, older one: http://blog.leaseweb.com/2014/02/25/law-enforcement-transparency-report-2014-july-1-december-31/

    And what about ecatel and voxility when it comes to free speech?

  • WSSWSS Member

    @William said:
    Not the case at all. If your ISP is willing to not bulge to idiotic requests and you have a lawyer hosting in US is perfectly safe, see 4Chan and various hacking boards.

    Sorry- I forgot to use my sarcasm tags again.

Sign In or Register to comment.