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Comments
Wow.
@Nyr - perhaps not illegal, but streaming content probably uses
a lot of BW.
I will probably have to set BW limits to avoid abuse.
update: possibly going to provide this in next couple of weeks.
Ipv6 is also possible at one location
Well, connection within EU/Europe is good to anywhere, there are just a few big transit players and a few peering exchanges with large volume... all you can shorten is the ping, and even that is not really relevant anymore at sub-50ms on fiber to most major cities inside the (mainland) EU.
@william - I migrated my sites from .de to .fi - ping times now 10 ms instead of 50 ms. noticeable performance improvement to page loading times.
Yes, but to get that low you need to basically colo in your own city or very near.
@william - I've tried from at least 3 major different operators here in Finland, and ping times are 50 ms from Finland to Germany. Inside Finland ping times are 3-10 ms.
@finland - how so you get such low times? Are you using a website like just-ping or actually pinging from your computer? I am pinging a LEB test IP 30 miles (50km) away from MY PC and the best I get is ~40ms. If I use just-ping, only then I get anything close to ~10ms
@william - it's not in the same city for example distance between Helsinki and the colo is like 300 kms, and ping time is 10 ms. Distance between Helsinki-Espoo would provide < 5 ms pings.
@asterisk14 - I'm pinging from my own computer - it's about 13 ms behind 24 Mbps ADSL, and pinging from several server shell accounts on major operator networks - 50 ms to germany everywhere even from my computer and 10-15 ms to this colocation facility.
I consider 10-15 ms decent, and 50 ms bearable
This looks very interesting. I'm Finnish too and while I'm still studying my degree, I have some experience (at work) with other (premium) Finnish VPS hosts such as Sigmatic, Zoner, UpCloud etc. I'll be certainly following this project.
I would personally go with either Xen or KVM too, just because it's a lot harder to oversell them and I feel it adds a little credibility. Not to mention TUN/TAP, kernels etc.
Judging by the specs given, you're planning to use SATA drives. You should consider SAS too, if possible. Otherwise the specs and prices look really good, perhaps a little bit too good in my opinion.
I would also recommend you to consider Helsinki (or Espoo) as a possible location. It just seems to have the best routing all around. With other locations I've experienced a little weirdness (eg. I've often seen something like X - Helsinki - Y, even though X - Z - Y would have been a lot better latency-wise). There are 2 FICIX exchanges at the capital region (FICIX1 Espoo and FICIX2 Helsinki) and a few good DCs. It's a recognizable name too (most foreigners know nothing about Lahti but they know Helsinki, right?). My opinions may of course be biased.
The bandwidth is really pricy, yeah. Especially if you're just a new startup and have to buy it from the DC. The prices are just ridiculously high. I reckon there would be some really good deals to be done if you set up an AS and negotiated directly with the large Finnish ISPs, but you would probably need to move at least few Gbits for them to even consider you.
To me seems 8 - 12ms normal ping inside country. And 16 - 22 ms to neighbour country in EU. Distances in Europe are small and well connected. As example to reach Edis Vienna in neighbour country it takes around 18ms and to Germany which isn't even close between 24 - 34ms from my home.
@cldf - SAS would increase costs. Initially not possible, but perhaps later. Helsinki and Espoo would almost double the colocation costs I'm afraid initially. I did my study and asked about 10 DC providers already. There's one possibility in Espoo in Innopoli with dedicated 100 Mbps, it would be a somewhat more expensive than the locations that I have planned for now.
I've smart hands service now, which isn't offered at Innopoli, so I'd have myself drive to do any HW maintenance. For now I'm already hosting a few servers
ready to be converted to VPS within coming weeks. Other location would
physically be very near me, which is being built during this fall.
Regarding AS - it would be hard to get for a small provider any peering/transit agreement without involving serious $. And LEB hosting isn't exactly a money maker, at least not in Finland.
But I start at LEB and also offer other plans later.
If you're going to do SAS drives, do them FROM THE START. It's a huge hassle to do migration later on, and it'll involve downtime. It won't add too much to the up-front (in theory) and your performance will be WAY higher.
@cldf - Thanks for commenting. Specs are subject to change when finalized.
Compared to other .fi specs, these are dream specs, but when compared to other US/EU specs these are only competitive. Only BW is
These were just the starting points. If you want to provide other specs, sure, go ahead
what needs to be limited, depending on the location and demand. I can get up to 1 Gigabit, but that will cost like 2500-2900 euros/month, so initially it really isn't possible to offer without getting enough customers/deals or better paying plans, even how nice it would be. This price range is from a telecom provider and from the DC.
@finlandvps
I know SAS would increase costs and no way would you be able to offer anywhere near the current HDD space, but they would be worth it even if you offered 5GB instead of the current 50GB and increased the price a little. If you already got some hardware colo'd, not worth to upgrade them I guess. But for future hardware, I'd definitely go that route.
As far as the DCs go, I would have believed that the colo would be cheaper at Helsinki/Espoo, just because there is far more competition, than Lahti for example but yeah, turns out I was wrong.
If you're not located in the capital region yourself, I would agree it's worth to go with a local provider (or one with very good on-site staff, smart hands etc. like you did).
@cldf - I could offer SAS later this year. I can choose which HDDs to put in, even SSD, for rest of the servers.
As far as SATA goes, SATA performance is decent these days at least
for generic LEB needs.
Cheapest DC in Helsinki used to be Tenue, but they were bought by Telecity and they increased prices by 75%. So they're not the cheapest anymore.
Lahti location would be cheapest, and that wouldn't be so far away from me.
But I have gotten best support from current colocation facility, that I'm
so far very happy with them.
I'm near capital region, that is not the issue.
@Magiobiwan - it is not really a hassle when you have enough servers some without HDDs at all at this phase, and different locations from where to choose from. If anybody wants to migrate from SATA plan to SAS plan later, they need to order a new VPS and migrate data over.
@magiobiwan - I understand it is a hassle for customer to migrate, if they want SAS, but for LEB Sata is perfectly fine. These current servers will stay SATA and new servers can come up with SAS/SSD/SATA+SSD. Depending on the interest on this Finland LEB VPS. I have to start somewhere, I hope you understand that.
Many have asked about own ASN or having access to BGP peering, that is not possible with this service offering. Nobody wants to offer that kind of BGP peering service in Finland. I asked two providers already.
Years ago I had a penfriend from Lahti.. She was a blond hottie.. wow.. I wonder what she's doing now. Still alive ? LOL.. Anybody remembers "pen friend" stuff?
Guess I am too old for this forum.
Anyway back to topic: and advice from me: DO NOT think about going international before going local.
Local customers are always good.
When you have some local customers paying your monthly expenses you can do anything experimental in your spare time..
BTW I am not planing to rent a vps from Finland. Ty.
@emre - She's my GF now
Sure, I'll go both local and international at the same time. In internet age, I wouldn't make a huge difference between international vs. local, except for
taxing, which will be different.
Currently locals are either willing to pay high prices or they rent vps outside Finland. Not sure if there's a huge demand for yet another vps provider in Finland. But if I beat the prices by half, I should sell out quickly.
Possibly locals will buy more services than international customers, but you never know.
Sounds very interesting. Might migrate your way in the future
BW in Finland is not even that expensive, i called up to 2 ISPs today and got offers in Helsinki that are barely more than in our German location - one provider was even willing to drop in a /25 (which, granted, is not of much use).
No interest for EDIS for now though, Sweden is too near
I'll probably get one. Been looking to expand my IRC network beyond just the US, in terms of server presence.
@william - care to PM me which operators you called and what kind of offers did you get? We could compare the offers that I have received.
@William - I rented a decent VPS over 40 eur/month from Edis, but I had to cancel due to DDOS attacks targeted at other customers, and Edis didn't want to move my VPS to other node despite requests. There were 3-4 downtimes within 1 month, so I cancelled after that. Ping times were good from Finland, but the pricing was a bit expensive for what I got.
Just requested ip subnets for this. lets see if i get them!
SSD, SAS to come later in the fall. SATA initially.