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I see. But that way, you expose your argument to an easy attack: "but the market does not protect X, so it needs someone to come in and force it", where X is the whatever current-year favorite pet peeve of the centralist.
In that, you'll have to either try "but it does" acrobatics - which probably aren't true enough - or to say "X isn't special because", which is a much strenuous thing to argue than the original position.
All that said, in essence we agree: Rigor vs glossing is a trade-off between longer time/effort and available openings.
Wow, verbal masturbation about regulatory effects on market dynamics.
You guys must be insanely bored. Try some porn.
Just remember that half of my posts are made on the toilet.
My own. Personal. USENET.
My place to def-i-cate. Ain't it great?
Francisco
Prices are already outrageous! $9+ per ip seems pretty standard and that really adds up considering a block originally cost $500 a year from ARIN. IPv6 has come along way and could make NAT a thing of the past if properly implemented. A lot of home internet providers are offering ipv6 and most website are accessible using it.
You have no idea how ARIN works. You do not pay for IPs and SHOULD NOT pay for IPs, only for the account and a fee on size (at times).
9$/IP also was the same price 4 years ago, nothing changed, only on larger scale it gets cheaper (/16 = 5-6$).
They can be forced to return however, easier than normal entities - DISA (also known as "MILNIC") had different rules than INTERNIC then (and existed before).
You have no idea how ARIN works. You do not pay for IPs and SHOULD NOT pay for IPs, only for the account and a fee on size (at times).
arin charges a fee depended on the size of block you get. If that is not paying for IPs what would you call that?
A management fee, just like ARIN does. This also does not apply to legacy ranges and there are ways around it (eg. being in a least developed country eg. Bermuda).
Diamonds are stupidly priced yet they are still here.
That's only due to the industry creating an artificial supply issue with an amazing marketing scheme. I get the association you were trying to make but it doesn't apply.
The world will end and we will all be zombies. Strolling around going, "We need IPv4" instead of brains. It will be almost like Z-Nation, and there will be one guy who can save the world with more IPv4.
IPv4 are forever.
"RIPE announced a new /29 was available..."
@raindog308 a /29 ;-)?
2030 -- the routing table breaks 8 million records.
Francisco
That still not that bad - newer routers support I. Excess of 10 million
But would take hours to reconvergence even without routing policies
Fair point
Francisco
In Pakistan we have nationwide ISPs who use CGN and they have millions, soon to be tens of millions, of customers. They've gone from nothing to millions of customers within a couple of years so they had to use NAT.
Yes this is what people forget about price increases. When prices go up it encourages new supply to come on to the market. There are many US universities hoarding ipv4 addresses and now they'll be thinking about selling them too.
Projected RIR Address Pool Exhaustion Dates:
RIR Projected Exhaustion Date Remaining Addresses in RIR Pool (/8s)
APNIC: 19-Apr-2011 (actual) 0.3932
RIPE NCC: 14-Sep-2012 (actual) 0.7397
LACNIC: 10-Jun-2014 (actual) 0.2296
ARIN: 24 Sep-2015 (actual)
AFRINIC: 27-May-2018 0.8998
Here's a new word for you.
I confess I'm not super IP-literate but I googled for the smallest block RIPE will assign and it's apparently a /29:
https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-555
Entirely possible I misinterpreted.
If you're OVH in Europe... today is that day!
I anticipate that during the next recession we will see lots of schools, government agencies, and big companies with large IP allocations trying to plug the holes in their budgets by selling excess IP addresses.
I'm sure they'll buy another /16 soon enough. Problem is that there's only so much spare space floating around for a price they're willing to pay.
Francisco
Yes, yes. I admit - it's us Jews. No really, we have Botswana mine them, De Beers stores them in hure storage areas and sells them to large jewish brokers "cheap" and we make up the price.
But hey, if they buy? Why not.... i do not plan on buying any diamond ring for our marriage.
No, they do not need to use NAT - APNIC has the coutry scheme where the country can obtain a VERY large range easily, eg. Chinese carriers have multiple /11.
If they can. This is not so simple as you make it sound, both legal and technical.
Yup. And what my contacts have goes to another certain EU ISP not near from OVH very shortly... because they pay better. Easy made 30k$ commission
I totally agree. The cynic inside me says that some of this is just a hedging ploy. I suspect that IP 4 /16 blocks will get more expensive and I also suspect that providers will start putting the prices up before it happens.
At this point providers like OVH should be trying to buy as much as they can ASAP just to try to beat the prices floating up. If they only buy when they need, the market will be draining around them.
As @william has said, $6 per IP on a /16 isn't uncommon... for now. In a year or two it'll be $8 or more.
Francisco
ChrisG?