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zonzon Member
edited January 2012 in Providers

Last week i purchased a 128mb quickweb Phoenix (only available loc) for $23.88.. but later i realized that 128mb is not enough so want to change it to 256mb ($35.88).. also this is available in Germany which is near to my place compared to Phoenix.

But quickweb is asking for $10 service charge for upgrade and change of location... (total $20 and they discounted $10)... i removed all my installed files so no need to transfer any files...

Is this fee normal ?

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Comments

  • @zon said: But quickweb is asking for $10 service charge for upgrade and change of location... (total $20 and they discounted $10)...

    So the fee is typically $20, they discounted you $10, I would think they're being more than reasonable, wouldn't you? You signed up for a package, that package was priced accordingly, and margins built in to that package that include the time it takes to setup an account.

    Now you want to:

    • Upgrade Package
    • Change Location

    Who is paying them for the time to do this? They have to pay someone, and this will remove any profit your account was making them. If you are going to pay at the bottom end of the market, then there may not be any room left in the plans for them to accommodate such tasks freely.

    Providers are responsible for wearing the cost of their own decisions when it comes to maintenance, upkeep etc. They're not responsible for wearing the cost of a customer changing their mind. Admittedly not all providers charge a service fee, however for the work involved I don't believe $10 to accommodate you is unreasonable in anyway.

    Regards,

    Joel

  • zonzon Member

    as far as i know setting up account is an automated process... so i dont think any man hour spend for that...

    in my hostigation account i can easily upgrade or downgrade instantly without paying any extra fee..

    but.. changing location may be an extra task...

  • @zon said: as far as i know setting up account is an automated process... so i dont think any man hour spend for that...

    But what you are requesting is not automated is it? Otherwise you could do it.... yourself!

    @zon said: in my hostigation account i can easily upgrade or downgrade instantly without paying any extra fee..

    I highly doubt you can upgrade your yearly 128mb VPS, and then downgrade back to it whenever you please. miTigB is free to chime in if i'm incorrect about this.

  • zonzon Member

    hostigation vps i was talking about monthly plan....

    if i was in their position i would have agreed for a free upgrade since i am getting an extra $12 business...

    anyway leave it instead of that i signed up with ramhost today....

  • @zon said: hostigation vps i was talking about monthly plan....

    I know you were talking about a monthly VPS, you tried to falsely represent your argument hence I cleared it up. You tried to use the ability to upgrade a monthly VPS as justification to upgrade a yearly.

    @zon said: if i was in their position i would have agreed for a free upgrade since i am getting an extra $12 business...

    And this is the problem, you simply don't understand their business, so how can you possibly say "in their position?" You have zero understanding of their position. I'll give you $50 of business, if you give me $500 of your time, that's the same logic your're using here.

    Hypothetical (and probably fairly accurate):

    Plan 1 $24 per year, say they make $5 profit on signup.
    Plan 2 $36 per year, say they make $7 profit on signup.

    You decide to upgrade from Plan 1 to Plan 2, they make an additional $2 profit out of the $12 you spend. However, they then loose that as they manually have to now affect changes to your account, and provision a VPS for you in a new location. Sure you're spending $12 more with them for the year ($1 a month, $0.25c per week, $0.04c a day), they're still losing money to provision the changes for you. They're now making even less on the $5 profit on signup, as their losses are now eating in to that. It's more profitable for them now to either have you remain on your current plan, or lose you as a customer.

    @zon said: anyway leave it instead of that i signed up with ramhost today....

    Excellent, hopefully you chose the correct yearly plan to start with.


    I await the day that it becomes unreasonable in the customer's eye that the host makes any money at all. Or are we there already?

    Regards,

    Joel

  • zonzon Member

    i never said that one for an yearly vps... also never blamed quickweb for such a fee... since it was just one week old and there was no files to transfer i thought they would transfer it without any charge... since they said no i decided to use that for some other purpose and signed up with ramhost... that is all...

    ($1 a month, $0.25c per week, $0.04c a day)>

    what do you think about moving the vps..? do they have to sit and provision all 365 days continuously ? it is all one time process.. and i hope it shd be single click process.. that means you have zero understanding about their business..

    anyway dont want to waste my time on this as i said it is a closed chapter now...

  • @Joel I do understand your point, but do you have experience with WHMCS? It would be like 2-3 clicks for quickweb. I wouldn't think it's that many working time. But sure it's their choose and business policy so you have to respect it or move on.

  • If he doesn't want to move files, then it is just a 2-3 click process.

    So charging $10 to click a few buttons that take a minute, is a bit unfair.

  • @zon said: that means you have zero understanding about their business..

    And yet you still thing it's an automated process that doesn't involve any human interaction, how is that going for you anyway?

    @Christian said: @Joel I do understand your point, but do you have experience with WHMCS?

    I sure do, I actually use it to manage my domains own domains (I'm my own client on my own install, gives me 1 place to manage all my domains backing on to multiple wholesalers).

    @Daniel said: So charging $10 to click a few buttons that take a minute, is a bit unfair.

    Here's the alternative, they can just refuse to upgrade his account, as a number of providers would where you have purchased and agreed to a yearly 128 package.

    Provider has done nothing wrong, they have provided a working service unless advised otherwise. Customer shifted the goalposts. He tried to save $$$ to begin with by understating his needs, sometimes you get away with it, sometimes you don't. It's not the providers fault he changed his mind, and therefor they should not have to expense the workload themselves. The provider is well within their rights to charge an acceptable $10 fee.

  • Transfering a OpenVZ Container takes a matter of minutes depending on the data.

    They are just making a quick $20 from you.

  • jhjh Member

    @EaseVPS said: Transfering a OpenVZ Container takes a matter of minutes depending on the data.

    And of course as the saying goes.. time is free. No wait, time is money.

  • zonzon Member

    Thank you all for supporting me... my request was very genuine.. still they denied it.. no complaint... it is their policy.. but i wanted to get your people's opinion.. thats why i posted here..

    it shd be matter of seconds... i dont know anything about OVZ control software.. but when i signup it creates account within seconds.. so similarly it shd be possible to move also.. (that too without any data transfer).. that is why i quoted hostigation downgrade/upgrade option... to show that it is a simple process.. but that misunderstood here...

    anyway i am not going to pay $10 for an upgrade.. with that money i can get one more box !!!

  • @jtodd
    Who said that? Time is free ofcourse.

    @zon
    It takes more then seconds, 5 - 10 Minutes with a few GB of data.

  • jhjh Member

    @EaseVPS said: Time is free ofcourse.

    I wish you the very best of luck in business :D

  • @jtodd
    Likewise Mr.todd :)

  • @EaseVPS said: It takes more then seconds, 5 - 10 Minutes with a few GB of data.

    Elapsed time or keyboard time?

  • JoelJoel Member
    edited January 2012

    @zon said: it shd be matter of seconds... i dont know anything about OVZ control software..

    So you say it should be seconds, but you admit you don't know anything? So either you know, or you don't. Which is it?

    "Sorry Doctor, i'm no doctor, but I don't agree with your diagnosis, I do watch Dr.Phil you know."

    @zon said: anyway i am not going to pay $10 for an upgrade.. with that money i can get one more box !!!

    And yet you now have two boxes with under your required ram? No ? You said 128mb wasn't enough, so where did you get a yearly 256 for $22 from? I'm interested as i'll buy one as well. ($22, your $10 fee + $12 upgrade).

    @sleddog said: Elapsed time or keyboard time?

    Perhaps time spent to ensure it's done properly and the customer doesn't come back here an hour later complaining that they "borked the vps and didn't even check if it was working." But people don't want to pay for that time, they want it all for free, then they want to complain when the jobs not done properly. I don't envy some of the hosts here, it's becoming immoral that they stay solvent and make a profit.

    1) Everyone bitches and whinges that a host "will be deadpool in 6 months."
    2) When a host puts fees in place to ensure they don't run their service at a loss, then people bitch again.

    Incredible.

    Thanked by 1marrco
  • @Joel said: @sleddog said: Elapsed time or keyboard time?

    @Joel said: Perhaps time spent to ensure it's done properly and the customer doesn't come back here an hour later complaining that they "borked the vps and didn't even check if it was working."

    I'd consider that keyboard time, and I'm not bitchin' about it :)

    I think a provider has every right to charge setup fees, upgrade fees, etc., as long as information is provided up-front.

    The customer has the right to shop around.

    Thanked by 1Joel
  • @sleddog said: I think a provider has every right to charge setup fees, upgrade fees, etc., as long as information is provided up-front.

    Agree 100%

    @sleddog said: The customer has the right to shop around.

    Agree 100% again ;)

  • zonzon Member

    So you say it should be seconds, but you admit you don't know anything? So either you know, or you don't. Which is it?>

    I already explained about it... read properly before posting a comment !!!!!

    And yet you now have two boxes with under your required ram? No ? You said 128mb wasn't enough, so where did you get a yearly 256 for $22 from? I'm interested as i'll buy one as well. ($22, your $10 fee + $12 upgrade).>

    I already have 15+ unmanaged boxes ranging from 96mb to 1GB and 2 managed ones from hostgator (hosting 65+ web sites).. so if one doesn't suit for one purpose i can easly change it to some other purpose...

    and i never said i got another for $22.. i aready told it was from ramhost and you know the price very well...

    then if you want you can easily get a 256mb vps for $22. i do own one such at 123systems which i purchased for $20 !!! but i dont recommend them.. very poor performance...

  • JacobJacob Member
    edited January 2012

    Let me explain the process.
    Setup Key for solusvm node to node then do vzlist command and find the IP Address. Start the transfer. Change the node and IP address on the master
    Check on the transfer in 30 minutes and then change the IP in whmcs and update the client.

    It is a maximum of 10Minutes sysadmin time and we pay techs around $5 per hour for L1 - 2 coverage.

    They have a right to charge you whatever they please but it's ridiculous.

  • edited January 2012

    @zon said: then if you want you can easily get a 256mb vps for $22. i do own one such at 123systems which i purchased for $20 !!! but i dont recommend them.. very poor performance...

    >

    That sentence about sums it all up. "Easily get a vps for $22", "But I don't recommend them.. very poor performance"

    @EaseVPS said: Let me explain the process.

    Setup Key for solusvm node to node then do vzlist command and find the IP Address. Start the transfer. Change the node and IP address on the master
    Check on the transfer in 30 minutes and then change the IP in whmcs and update the client.

    It is a maximum of 10Minutes sysadmin time and we pay techs around $5 per hour for L1 - 2 coverage.

    They have a right to charge you whatever they please but it's ridiculous.

    It seems like a fair charge. Not everyone has $5 /hr support costs. Theres also time to check its working correctly etc

  • zonzon Member

    It is a maximum of 10Minutes sysadmin time and we pay techs around $5 per hour for L1 - 2 coverage.

    that means it is going to take less than $1

    Every provider has their own rights to charge for their extra services... and i dont think anybody is going to pay $20 service charge for an yearly $23 VPS !!

    So my question is in business point of view will you be adamant about such a fee which has almost zero chance to succeed (and eventually loose that extra business) or waive of that fee and get the extra $12 business plus keep the customer happy... ?

  • @DotVPS said: Depends what disk space is in use.

    That plan just have 6GB disk space ¬_¬

  • zonzon Member

    Depends what disk space is in use.

    Not yet started using it... 0 files (aprt from the os files)...

  • @EaseVPS said: It is a maximum of 10Minutes sysadmin time and we pay techs around $5 per hour for L1 - 2 coverage.

    I don't know what country you operate in, but that's below minimum wage standards in the US and Canada. Interesting to know that the kid flipping my burger at McDonald's is getting paid more than the technician managing my VPS....

  • @zon said: that means it is going to take less than $1

    Just because his techs are paid peanuts does not mean everybody's techs are paid peanuts. $5 p/hr is below minimum wage in NZ.

    @zon said: Every provider has their own rights to charge for their extra services... and i dont think anybody is going to pay $20 service charge for an yearly $23 VPS !!

    Hold on $20? They reduced it to $10 for you? So which is is now? You seem unable to keep a straight story. I'm beginning to question if you are even a customer of QuickWeb to begin with?

    The sale price of the VPS has absolutely no influence/correlation to the service price. Otherwise for the same task by your "reasoning," and I do use that word very loosely with you, then their $30 per month VPS should have a service fee of over $150. You seem to be hellbent that the price you paid on an annual special should influence their service fee.

    @zon said: So my question is in business point of view will you be adamant about such a fee which has almost zero chance to succeed (and eventually loose that extra business) or waive of that fee and get the extra $12 business plus keep the customer happy... ?

    Makes no sense to waive the fee if you're at a loss. Many of these yearly VPSs are sold at cost as it is in the hope that the customer will eventually upgrade to a more financially viable plan. Secondly, the plan you wanted isn't even listed on their website, so they're creating a custom plan for you after you agreed to an annual package. So much for your "it's all automated" argument.

    As for using anything EaseVPS says as credibility to your argument, it's not. He has a vested interest in talking down a competitor of his and calling things "ridiculous." Furthermore EaseVPS was only registered in October 2011. He hasn't even been operating 90 days yet, and that's being gracious as i'm counting from the date he registered his domain, hopefully he doesn't end up in the deadpool in 6 or 9 months like a number of other overnight startups.

    PS @ZON: I need someone to come in and vacum this week as the cleaner is away until the 9th, i'm more than happy to pay you $5 p/hr opposed to her $32+. Drop right on by if you think it's a perfectly reasonable rate. It's about 1/3 of minimum wage here, but hey, you think what applies to one applies to all, so over you come. It will cost you a heap more to get here than what i'm going to pay you, but hey what the hell, it makes perfect business sense to you as you're getting $5, bugger the costs they're irrelevant, it's all worth $5!

    Thanked by 1DeletedUser
  • JacobJacob Member
    edited January 2012

    @sleddog
    Hehe, It is around that amount and slightly more I cannot give you the exact figures though. :)

    We do transfers for free, So QuickWeb charging $20 for a node to node transfer AND the OP said his VPS was empty so it is just a matter of "Terminate" , "Create VPS".

    @Joel

    Referring to EaseVPS as a deadpool when we have a strong client base and have grown rapidly over the last few months in operation, We are not going anywhere soon.

    QuickWeb as competition for EaseVPS would be raising the bar a tad don't you think? Considering they are a much larger company and are New Zealand based.(Local Clients).

    The price that I was referring to for the Guestimated wage for L1 - L2 Coverage, Price Per Hour for L3 differs greatly.

  • @EaseVPS said: we pay techs around $5 per hour for L1 - 2 coverage.

    In which third world country do you outsource your technical department?

  • JoelJoel Member
    edited January 2012

    @EaseVPS said: Referring to EaseVPS as a deadpool

    Perhaps your comprehension isn't great, I never said you were in deadpool. I said "hopefully he doesn't end up deadpool..."

    @EaseVPS said: when we have a strong client base

    Rubbish. You're client base isn't even 90 days old, you're not even 90 days old. You have no idea what your client base classes as until at least a minimum of 1 year, and in real business no less than 6 trading quarters (18 months). Your clients haven't even had the opportunity to renew their services with you over a full year, hell you're not even in a position to send an invoice past 90 days to collections and you want to call your customer base "strong." ??? Who are you kidding? Yourself?."

    Go to the bank, get a house loan based on your less than 90 day old "strong client base." See how that discussion with your branch manager turns out for you...

    @EaseVPS said: and have grown rapidly over the last few months in operation,

    Every provider that starts up with low pricing grows rapidly. Do you think your growth is an indicator of your unique position in the market? If so you're overstating your success at this point and deluding yourself. Any growth from zero can be classed as "rapid." However your "rapid" growth wouldn't be a piss in the ocean compared to some of the established providers. However, kudos where kudos are due, you do whip up some good marketing lines.

    Strong customer base, rapid growth, 2 month old host, lol give me a break.

    @EaseVPS said: We are not going anywhere soon.

    I believe every host has this intention, and states this publicly from day 1. It seems to me you're just copy/pasting rhetorics that hold no meaning until you have a trading history you can back it with. Your words hold zero credibility, as stated you haven't even been running 90 days.

    In fact, you haven't even been around long enough to have a big enough failure to judge your response time by. Your hardware probably hasn't even burnt in yet ;)

    @EaseVPS said: The price that I was referring to for the Guestimated wage for L1 - L2 Coverage

    No, you were using it as a way to have a cheap shot at a competitor of yours which reaked of "startup operation" and hence led me to whois your domain to see when you started. New hosts for some reason always spend more time posting in discussion topics related to other hosts than their own, why is that I wonder?

    @EaseVPS said: it's ridiculous.

    @EaseVPS said: They are just making a quick $20 from you.

    That doesn't look like "reffering to for the Guestimated wage" when you know they're NZ based. Or did you already forget what you typed above?

    Thanked by 3DeletedUser jh jamson
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