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Why is the world still running on PHP?

13»

Comments

  • @stable_genius said:

    @dbadude said:
    PHP originally was developed as a static website generator. Some smart boys thought it would be wise to let the generation do in realtime. The language was never safe enough, it was just a perl more suited for html generation.

    PHP grew out of its clothes and is showing too much now, unlike Perl.

    Perl is highly underated. Its has a much more stable language. Its moderators don't change the language every user group meeting.

    Thanked by 1stable_genius
  • @raindog308 said:

    @dbadude said: it was just a perl

    Ah, perl and the web...takes me back to my HTML::Mason days.

    My first cgi scripting also with perl. As a c coder it was a easy switch.

  • What language should shared web hosting be using?

    I think that's really the answer to the question. Other languages, like NodeJS, represent a fundamental shift in how web scripts/applications are deployed. And everyone is used to the PHP method of interacting with the web server.

    For NodeJS on a shared web hosting server that's using Apache, Litespeed, nginx... you're really losing the thing that makes NodeJS so fast. And on a shared web hosting server, a server administrator can't justify binding an Express web server to ports 80 and 443 because that will cut off every non-NodeJS account.

    There's also no (that I'm really aware of, but I'll admit - I'm probably not that aware) major distributable scripts for shared web hosting clients to use that are based on NodeJS or any other non-PHP language. Someone that wants to use NodeJS is probably going to have to develop the application themselves and tailor it specifically for their needs. And then they are probably going to want their own root-level VPS to adequately run the application. And that's just not something shared web hosting can provide - not without a fundamental shift in how shared web hosting operates.

  • ehabehab Veteran

    I know @raindog308 can do any business with Cobol.

  • stable_geniusstable_genius Member
    edited October 22

    @sparek said:
    What language should shared web hosting be using?

    I think that's really the answer to the question. Other languages, like NodeJS, represent a fundamental shift in how web scripts/applications are deployed. And everyone is used to the PHP method of interacting with the web server.

    For NodeJS on a shared web hosting server that's using Apache, Litespeed, nginx... you're really losing the thing that makes NodeJS so fast. And on a shared web hosting server, a server administrator can't justify binding an Express web server to ports 80 and 443 because that will cut off every non-NodeJS account.

    There's also no (that I'm really aware of, but I'll admit - I'm probably not that aware) major distributable scripts for shared web hosting clients to use that are based on NodeJS or any other non-PHP language. Someone that wants to use NodeJS is probably going to have to develop the application themselves and tailor it specifically for their needs. And then they are probably going to want their own root-level VPS to adequately run the application. And that's just not something shared web hosting can provide - not without a fundamental shift in how shared web hosting operates.

    The model currently used with PHP dates from 20 years ago, things are different now.

    You just showed that there are no easy substitutes as all viable alternatives are based on different models of sharing. And most viable alternatives have their own problems too.

    Perhaps getting back to basics is the solution: https://learnbchs.org/

    Thanked by 1jsg
  • raindog308raindog308 Administrator, Veteran

    @OhJohn said: While we all remember PERL headaches:

    I never had any. Beautiful, elegant language.

    @dbadude said: Perl is highly underated.

    image

    I think I like it because I learned so many core concepts with it, and because it's very optimal for a lot of work I was doing early in my career (Unix/Linux sysadmin, text processing, database work, etc.) I can understand why people don't like it, because it can be written in a visuallly abhorrent style, but then so can C or anything.

    If you ask me to rip through a massive text file or filesystem, do pattern matching and transforms, and write out in a new format or put in a database, I'm confident I can write that faster and in far fewer lines of code using Perl than using Python and the code will run faster. But I write a lot of Python now because everyone around me uses it.

    There's a lovely book called Modern Perl.

    @ehab said: I know @raindog308 can do any business with Cobol.

    I learned a little COBOL. The idea of a record-oriented language is quite powerful, but the gravity-oriented programming style and the language's insane wordiness is a little off-putting. I think I liked playing with it just because it was so antiquarian.

    Thanked by 4OhJohn ehab dbadude tux
  • @stable_genius said:
    You just showed that there are no easy substitutes as all viable alternatives are based on different models of sharing. And most viable alternatives have their own problems too.

    Yea, that's the issue. Every alternative is different. The shared hosting industry is designed to be mostly cookie cutter. It relies on a system that is mostly the same from company to company and for usage to usage.

    Now if you're talking about - what I call - Enterprise level hosting, where a company is utilizing their own servers or their own root-accessible servers with administrators and programmers on the company's payroll, then yes PHP may not be the language to use.

    At the Enterprise level, the company always (or should always) have someone on hand that can fix and reprogram areas of the website that need fixing.

    That's not what shared hosting is.

    Shared hosting is a $5/mo fee that a company may pay to host their WordPress or PHP based website.

    Enterprise hosting is where a company pays programmers $100K (?) per year to develop and maintain their website.

    Thanked by 1stable_genius
  • @raindog308 said:
    If you ask me to rip through a massive text file or filesystem, do pattern matching and transforms, and write out in a new format or put in a database, I'm confident I can write that faster and in far fewer lines of code using Perl than using Python and the code will run faster. But I write a lot of Python now because everyone around me uses it.

    Have you considered switching to PHP as a command-line scripting language?

    I got tired of dependency hell with Perl and switched a lot of my command-line scripting to PHP. Can't really say if it is any faster or slower than Perl though.

    I do still occasionally use Perl. Never got into Python.

  • TangeTange Member

    @dbadude said:

    @Levi said:
    Yea, we should stick with dreamwaver.

    indeed i used dreamweaver to create nicely formated html forms, and perl cgi to collect the submited data.

    https://www.adobe.com/products/dreamweaver.html

    can't believe it still alive :D

  • LeviLevi Veteran

    @Tange said:

    @dbadude said:

    @Levi said:
    Yea, we should stick with dreamwaver.

    indeed i used dreamweaver to create nicely formated html forms, and perl cgi to collect the submited data.

    https://www.adobe.com/products/dreamweaver.html

    can't believe it still alive :D

    Coldfusion also exist! .cfm

  • @Levi said:

    @Tange said:

    @dbadude said:

    @Levi said:
    Yea, we should stick with dreamwaver.

    indeed i used dreamweaver to create nicely formated html forms, and perl cgi to collect the submited data.

    https://www.adobe.com/products/dreamweaver.html

    can't believe it still alive :D

    Coldfusion also exist! .cfm

    Adobe cfm had even more holes in their software than php. Monopolist (then)adobe refused to patch it, and thus its now history. A pitty there were promising developments in the coldfusion scene. At some point java applets would take over than microsoft silverlight came and was gone as all microsoft solutions. And then html got some major upgrades.... thanks to apple and google.

  • SaragoldfarbSaragoldfarb Veteran, Megathread Squad

    @emgh said:

    @Saragoldfarb said:

    @rpqu said:

    insecure

    Oh, I know who's going to appear

    Stop harassing @emgh . Hes insecure but a fine strapping young man!

    what the fuck

    Sorry <3 . If you evah wanna talk, just message @jsg .

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