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I'm looking for a VPS with a price of $10 per year.

mammoth99mammoth99 Member
in General

Hey let, is there any recommendation VPS for $10/year,
I need it for Telegram bot.

«1

Comments

  • nghialelenghialele Member

    @DediRock maybe can help

    Thanked by 2itzsenu DediRock
  • monsoon73monsoon73 Member

    Options at $10/yr (I'm assuming USD) currently are DediRock in NYC and LA as @nghialele mentioned and Rabisu offers LA, Bulgaria, and Turkiye at that price.

  • User59128User59128 Member

    I think Racknerd has some during Black Friday

  • DediRockDediRock Member, Patron Provider

    @nghialele said:
    @DediRock maybe can help

    awesome thx for the mention @nghialele :)

  • kukara4kukara4 Member, Patron Provider

    You can try our new product line, VPS. Regular VPS servers, not cloud. This product is in beta, so you can become first tester.

    Here are prices:

    • VPS 1: 1 vCPU, 1 GB RAM, 20 GB disk, 1 TB traffic, €1.00/mo
    • VPS 2: 2 vCPU, 2 GB RAM, 40 GB disk, 2 TB traffic, €1.90/mo
    • VPS 4: 3 vCPU, 4 GB RAM, 80 GB disk, 3 TB traffic, €3.60/mo
    • VPS 8: 4 vCPU, 8 GB RAM, 160 GB disk, 4 TB traffic, €6.90/mo
    • VPS 16: 6 vCPU, 16 GB RAM, 320 GB disk, 5 TB traffic, €13.50/mo

    Every plan has 1 IPv4, /56 IPv6, 1 Gbit/s port, 10k IOPS, CPU model best effort. After traffic quota port slows to 100 Mbit/s. Location Bucharest, Romania, EU. Billing is hourly.

    Weekly backups are available for +20% of plan price.

  • insivimuinsivimu Member
    edited September 25

    TierHive

    Thanked by 3yoursunny BasToTheMax nick_
  • averagedatahoarderaveragedatahoarder Member

    @DeluxHost has some starting from 6EUR/year, unmetered bandwidth is nice. Though I have no services with them so cannot say anything regarding performance/support.

    https://deluxhost.net/en/deals

  • phphelpphphelp Member

    @DediRock Don't use DediRock's VPS. Their sub-$10 VPS is severely oversold — the CPU can't handle Telegram bots at all, with usage constantly hitting 100%. I'd suggest spending a bit more and going with Colocrossing or RackNerd instead; their overselling isn't as bad right now. DediRock's cheap VPS is basically a toy machine with terrible CPU performance.

    Thanked by 1DediRock
  • itzsenuitzsenu Member

    @phphelp said: Their sub-$10 VPS is severely oversold — the CPU can't handle Telegram bots at all, with usage constantly hitting 100%.

    Ohh sorry, I was running a 0.8B model. Sorry, neighbour :disappointed:

  • phphelpphphelp Member

    @DediRock I’d suggest going with RackNerd instead. The VPS plans under $10 on DediRock suffer from severe overselling, resulting in really poor CPU performance. At this point, their sub-$10 VPS offerings have completely ruined their reputation. Who would still dare to buy higher-priced VPS plans from DediRock after this?

    Thanked by 1DediRock
  • Snitchboss123Snitchboss123 Member

    @mammoth99 said:
    Hey let, is there any recommendation VPS for $10/year,
    I need it for Telegram bot.

    dedirock for the go or go server-less choose reliablity, decibelnodes.com for server-less

  • itzsenuitzsenu Member
    edited September 25

    @phphelp said:
    @DediRock I’d suggest going with RackNerd instead. The VPS plans under $10 on DediRock suffer from severe overselling, resulting in really poor CPU performance. At this point, their sub-$10 VPS offerings have completely ruined their reputation. Who would still dare to buy higher-priced VPS plans from DediRock after this?

    i don't think so. even for a vps under $10 with ipv6, u can't expect much more from it. most of them give 1 gb, while this one gives 2 gb ram, and it also includes ipv4. so i dont think u can complain much at this price.

    i know they had some issues earlier, but they are improving. i'm not taking their side, but for the price, i don't think u can really say much. i did some tests on mine so u can see. mine is the $8.88/year one.


    01. lscpu 
    root@dedi:~# lscpu
Architecture:                x86_64
  CPU op-mode(s):            32-bit, 64-bit
  Address sizes:             46 bits physical, 48 bits virtual
  Byte Order:                Little Endian
CPU(s):                      1
  On-line CPU(s) list:       0
Vendor ID:                   GenuineIntel
  Model name:                Intel(R) Xeon(R) Gold 5118 CPU @ 2.30GHz
    CPU family:              6
    Model:                   85
    Thread(s) per core:      1
    Core(s) per socket:      1
    Socket(s):               1
    Stepping:                4
    BogoMIPS:                4599.99
    Flags:                   fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss syscall nx pdpe1gb rdtscp lm constant_tsc arch_perfmon rep_good nopl xtopology cpuid tsc_known_freq pni pclmulqdq vmx ssse3 fma cx16 pdcm pcid sse4_1 sse4_2 x2apic movbe popcnt tsc_deadline_timer aes xsave avx f16c rdrand hypervisor lahf_lm abm 3dnowprefetch cpuid_fault pti ssbd ibrs ibpb stibp tpr_shadow flexpriority ept vpid ept_ad fsgsbase tsc_adjust bmi1 hle avx2 smep bmi2 erms invpcid rtm mpx avx512f avx512dq rdseed adx smap clflushopt clwb avx512cd avx512bw avx512vl xsaveopt xsavec xgetbv1 xsaves arat vnmi umip pku ospke md_clear flush_l1d arch_capabilities
Virtualization features:
  Virtualization:            VT-x
  Hypervisor vendor:         KVM
  Virtualization type:       full
Caches (sum of all):
  L1d:                       32 KiB (1 instance)
  L1i:                       32 KiB (1 instance)
  L2:                        1 MiB (1 instance)
  L3:                        16.5 MiB (1 instance)
NUMA:
  NUMA node(s):              1
  NUMA node0 CPU(s):         0
Vulnerabilities:
  Gather data sampling:      Not affected
  Indirect target selection: Mitigation; Aligned branch return thunks
  Itlb multihit:             Not affected
  L1tf:                      Mitigation; PTE Inversion; VMX flush not necessary, SMT disabled
  Mds:                       Mitigation; Clear CPU buffers; SMT Host state unknown
  Meltdown:                  Mitigation; PTI
  Mmio stale data:           Mitigation; Clear CPU buffers; SMT Host state unknown
  Retbleed:                  Mitigation; IBRS
  Spec rstack overflow:      Not affected
  Spec store bypass:         Mitigation; Speculative Store Bypass disabled via prctl
  Spectre v1:                Mitigation; usercopy/swapgs barriers and __user pointer sanitization
  Spectre v2:                Mitigation; IBRS; IBPB conditional; STIBP disabled; RSB filling; PBRSB-eIBRS Not affected; BHI SW loop, KVM SW loop
  Srbds:                     Not affected
  Tsa:                       Not affected
  Tsx async abort:           Mitigation; Clear CPU buffers; SMT Host state unknown


    02. free -h 
    root@dedi:~# free -h
               total        used        free      shared  buffcache   available
Mem:           1.9Gi       634Mi       201Mi        16Mi       1.3Gi       1.3Gi
Swap:          2.0Gi       1.9Mi       2.0Gi


    03. lsblk 
    root@dedi:~# lsblk -o NAME,SIZE,TYPE,FSTYPE,MOUNTPOINTS
NAME   SIZE TYPE FSTYPE MOUNTPOINTS
vda     30G disk
└─vda1  30G part ext4   /


    04. systemd-detect-virt 
    root@dedi:~# systemd-detect-virt
kvm


    05. numactl --hardware 
    root@dedi:~# numactl --hardware
available: 1 nodes (0)
node 0 cpus: 0
node 0 size: 1973 MB
node 0 free: 201 MB
node distances:
node   0
  0:  10


    06. uptime 
    root@dedi:~# uptime
 23:35:01 up 23 days,  1:45,  1 user,  load average: 0.23, 0.69, 0.40


    07. df -h 
    root@dedi:~# df -h
Filesystem      Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/vda1        30G   12G   17G  40% /


    08. /proc/loadavg 
    root@dedi:~# cat /proc/loadavg
0.23 0.69 0.40 1/226 2735157


    09. mpstat 1 10 
    root@dedi:~# mpstat 1 10
Linux 6.12.41+deb13-amd64 (dedi)        09/25/2026      _x86_64_        (1 CPU)

11:35:07 PM  CPU    %usr   %nice    %sys %iowait    %irq   %soft  %steal  %guest  %gnice   %idle
11:35:08 PM  all    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00  100.00
11:35:09 PM  all    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00  100.00
11:35:10 PM  all    2.02    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00   97.98
11:35:11 PM  all    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00  100.00
11:35:12 PM  all    5.05    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00   94.95
11:35:13 PM  all    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00  100.00
11:35:14 PM  all    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00  100.00
11:35:15 PM  all    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00  100.00
11:35:16 PM  all    0.99    0.00    0.99    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00   98.02
11:35:17 PM  all    8.25    0.00    7.22    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00   84.54
Average:     all    1.61    0.00    0.81    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00   97.58


    10. baseline CPU mpstat 
    root@dedi:~# mkdir -p ~/vps-benchmark
root@dedi:~# mpstat 1 10 | tee ~/vps-benchmark/baseline-cpu.txt
Linux 6.12.41+deb13-amd64 (dedi)        09/25/2026      _x86_64_        (1 CPU)

11:35:19 PM  CPU    %usr   %nice    %sys %iowait    %irq   %soft  %steal  %guest  %gnice   %idle
11:35:20 PM  all   18.18    0.00    7.07    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00   74.75
11:35:21 PM  all    0.00    0.00    0.99    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00   99.01
11:35:22 PM  all    1.01    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00   98.99
11:35:23 PM  all    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00  100.00
11:35:24 PM  all    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00  100.00
11:35:25 PM  all    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00  100.00
11:35:26 PM  all    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00  100.00
11:35:27 PM  all   14.14    0.00    4.04    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00   81.82
11:35:28 PM  all    6.00    0.00    1.00    1.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00   92.00
11:35:29 PM  all    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00  100.00
Average:     all    3.92    0.00    1.31    0.10    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00    0.00   94.68


    11. sysbench CPU 5-minutes 
    root@dedi:~# sysbench cpu \
    --threads=1 \
    --cpu-max-prime=50000 \
    --time=300 \
    run | tee ~/vps-benchmark/cpu-5min.txt

sysbench 1.0.20 (using system LuaJIT 2.1.1700206165)

Running the test with following options:
Number of threads: 1
Initializing random number generator from current time


Prime numbers limit: 50000

Initializing worker threads...

Threads started!

CPU speed:
    events per second:     84.39

General statistics:
    total time:                          300.0056s
    total number of events:              25319

Latency (ms):
         min:                                    9.67
         avg:                                   11.84
         max:                                   44.80
         95th percentile:                      15.00
         sum:                              299861.18

Threads fairness:
    events (avg/stddev):           25319.0000/0.00
    execution time (avg/stddev):   299.8612/0.00


    12. sysbench CPU consistency test 
    root@dedi:~# for i in {1..5}; do
    echo "===== RUN $i ====="
    sysbench cpu \
        --threads=1 \
        --cpu-max-prime=50000 \
        --time=120 \
        run
done | tee ~/vps-benchmark/cpu-consistency.txt

===== RUN 1 =====
sysbench 1.0.20 (using system LuaJIT 2.1.1700206165)

Running the test with following options:
Number of threads: 1
Initializing random number generator from current time


Prime numbers limit: 50000

Initializing worker threads...

Threads started!

CPU speed:
    events per second:     85.36

General statistics:
    total time:                          120.0084s
    total number of events:              10244

Latency (ms):
         min:                                    9.88
         avg:                                   11.71
         max:                                   33.87
         95th percentile:                      14.73
         sum:                              119948.83

Threads fairness:
    events (avg/stddev):           10244.0000/0.00
    execution time (avg/stddev):   119.9488/0.00

===== RUN 2 =====
sysbench 1.0.20 (using system LuaJIT 2.1.1700206165)

Running the test with following options:
Number of threads: 1
Initializing random number generator from current time


Prime numbers limit: 50000

Initializing worker threads...

Threads started!

CPU speed:
    events per second:     86.66

General statistics:
    total time:                          120.0011s
    total number of events:              10400

Latency (ms):
         min:                                    9.79
         avg:                                   11.53
         max:                                   35.91
         95th percentile:                      14.21
         sum:                              119948.41

Threads fairness:
    events (avg/stddev):           10400.0000/0.00
    execution time (avg/stddev):   119.9484/0.00

===== RUN 3 =====
sysbench 1.0.20 (using system LuaJIT 2.1.1700206165)

Running the test with following options:
Number of threads: 1
Initializing random number generator from current time


Prime numbers limit: 50000

Initializing worker threads...

Threads started!

CPU speed:
    events per second:     92.30

General statistics:
    total time:                          120.0074s
    total number of events:              11077

Latency (ms):
         min:                                    9.76
         avg:                                   10.83
         max:                                   30.44
         95th percentile:                      12.52
         sum:                              119979.36

Threads fairness:
    events (avg/stddev):           11077.0000/0.00
    execution time (avg/stddev):   119.9794/0.00

===== RUN 4 =====
sysbench 1.0.20 (using system LuaJIT 2.1.1700206165)

Running the test with following options:
Number of threads: 1
Initializing random number generator from current time


Prime numbers limit: 50000

Initializing worker threads...

Threads started!

CPU speed:
    events per second:     93.43

General statistics:
    total time:                          120.0023s
    total number of events:              11212

Latency (ms):
         min:                                    9.64
         avg:                                   10.70
         max:                                   27.57
         95th percentile:                      12.30
         sum:                              119973.78

Threads fairness:
    events (avg/stddev):           11212.0000/0.00
    execution time (avg/stddev):   119.9738/0.00

===== RUN 5 =====
sysbench 1.0.20 (using system LuaJIT 2.1.1700206165)

Running the test with following options:
Number of threads: 1
Initializing random number generator from current time


Prime numbers limit: 50000

Initializing worker threads...

Threads started!

CPU speed:
    events per second:     91.65

General statistics:
    total time:                          120.0031s
    total number of events:              10998

Latency (ms):
         min:                                    9.63
         avg:                                   10.91
         max:                                   30.87
         95th percentile:                      12.75
         sum:                              119974.23

Threads fairness:
    events (avg/stddev):           10998.0000/0.00
    execution time (avg/stddev):   119.9742/0.00


    14. CPU steal test - 300 seconds 
    root@dedi:~# mpstat -P ALL 1 300 | tee ~/vps-benchmark/cpu-steal.txt

Linux 6.12.41+deb13-amd64 (dedi)        09/25/2026      _x86_64_        (1 CPU)

[300 lines of mpstat output - avg %steal: 0.01%, avg %idle: 97.35%]


    15. sysbench memory write 
    root@dedi:~# sysbench memory \
    --threads=1 \
    --memory-block-size=1M \
    --memory-total-size=10G \
    run | tee ~/vps-benchmark/memory.txt

sysbench 1.0.20 (using system LuaJIT 2.1.1700206165)

Running the test with following options:
Number of threads: 1
Initializing random number generator from current time


Running memory speed test with the following options:
  block size: 1024KiB
  total size: 10240MiB
  operation: write
  scope: global

Initializing worker threads...

Threads started!

Total operations: 10240 (13235.88 per second)

10240.00 MiB transferred (13235.88 MiB/sec)


General statistics:
    total time:                          0.7712s
    total number of events:              10240

Latency (ms):
         min:                                    0.06
         avg:                                    0.07
         max:                                    0.40
         95th percentile:                       0.10
         sum:                                  764.72

Threads fairness:
    events (avg/stddev):           10240.0000/0.00
    execution time (avg/stddev):   0.7647/0.00


    16. free -h after memory benchmark 
    root@dedi:~# free -h
               total        used        free      shared  buffcache   available
Mem:           1.9Gi       665Mi       241Mi        16Mi       1.2Gi       1.3Gi
Swap:          2.0Gi       1.9Mi       2.0Gi


    17. fio sequential write 
    root@dedi:~# fio \
    --name=seqwrite \
    --filename=~/vps-benchmark/fio-test \
    --size=5G \
    --rw=write \
    --bs=1M \
    --direct=1 \
    --ioengine=libaio \
    --iodepth=32 \
    --runtime=120 \
    --time_based \
    --group_reporting

seqwrite (g=0): rw=write, bs=(R) 1024KiB-1024KiB, (W) 1024KiB-1024KiB, (T) 1024KiB-1024KiB, ioengine=libaio, iodepth=32
fio-3.39
Starting 1 process
seqwrite: Laying out IO file (1 file, 5120MiB)
Jobs: 1 (f=1), [W(1)][100.0%][w=2020MiB/s][w=2020 IOPS][eta 00m:00s]
seqwrite (groupid=0, jobs=1): err= 0 pid=2738574 Sat Sep 26 00:01:34 2026
  write: IOPS=1976, BW=1977MiB/s (2073MB/s)(232GiB/120016msec); 0 zone resets
    slat (usec): min=37, max=19886, avg=130.99, stdev=142.43
    clat (usec): min=1259, max=134386, avg=16051.84, stdev=2618.55
     lat (usec): min=1417, max=134549, avg=16182.83, stdev=2622.86
    clat percentiles (usec):
       |  1.00th=[13829],  5.00th=[15139], 10.00th=[15401], 20.00th=[15533],
       | 30.00th=[15533], 40.00th=[15664], 50.00th=[15664], 60.00th=[15664],
       | 70.00th=[15664], 80.00th=[15795], 90.00th=[16188], 95.00th=[17957],
       | 99.00th=[31327], 99.50th=[32113], 99.90th=[43254], 99.95th=[51119],
       | 99.99th=[71828]
   bw (MiB/s): min=  990, max= 2044, per=100.00%, avg=1979.21, stdev=159.15, samples=239
   iops:        min=  990, max= 2044, avg=1979.08, stdev=159.15, samples=239
  lat (msec):   2=0.01%, 4=0.02%, 10=0.33%, 20=96.46%, 50=3.14%
  lat (msec):  100=0.05%, 250=0.01%
  cpu:          usr=18.20%, sys=10.53%, ctx=230402, majf=0, minf=10
  IO depths:    1=0.1%, 2=0.1%, 4=0.1%, 8=0.1%, 16=0.1%, 32=100.0%, >=64=0.0%
     submit:   0=0.0%, 4=100.0%, 8=0.0%, 16=0.0%, 32=0.0%, 64=0.0%, >=64=0.0%
     complete: 0=0.0%, 4=100.0%, 8=0.0%, 16=0.0%, 32=0.1%, 64=0.0%, >=64=0.0%
     issued rwts: total=0,237261,0,0 short=0,0,0,0 dropped=0,0,0,0
     latency: target=0, window=0, percentile=100.00%, depth=32

Run status group 0 (all jobs):
  WRITE: bw=1977MiB/s (2073MB/s), 1977MiB/s-1977MiB/s (2073MB/s-2073MB/s), io=232GiB (249GB), run=120016-120016msec

Disk stats (read/write):
  vda: ios=48237292/1496485326616, merge=44244/0, ticks=2363789/138, in_queue=3789754, util=70.49%


    18. fio sequential read 
    root@dedi:~# fio \
    --name=seqread \
    --filename=~/vps-benchmark/fio-test \
    --size=5G \
    --rw=read \
    --bs=1M \
    --direct=1 \
    --ioengine=libaio \
    --iodepth=32 \
    --runtime=120 \
    --time_based \
    --group_reporting

seqread (g=0): rw=read, bs=(R) 1024KiB-1024KiB, (W) 1024KiB-1024KiB, (T) 1024KiB-1024KiB, ioengine=libaio, iodepth=32
fio-3.39
Starting 1 process
Jobs: 1 (f=1), [R(1)][100.0%][r=2231MiB/s][r=2231 IOPS][eta 00m:00s]
seqread (groupid=0, jobs=1): err= 0 pid=2738931 Sat Sep 26 00:03:37 2026
  read: IOPS=2519, BW=2519MiB/s (2641MB/s)(295GiB/120006msec)
    slat (usec): min=5, max=11624, avg=32.85, stdev=53.94
    clat (usec): min=189, max=79723, avg=12666.76, stdev=14896.44
     lat (usec): min=578, max=79746, avg=12699.61, stdev=14897.00
    clat percentiles (usec):
       |  1.00th=[ 1319],  5.00th=[ 4228], 10.00th=[ 5538], 20.00th=[ 6390],
       | 30.00th=[ 6849], 40.00th=[ 7242], 50.00th=[ 7570], 60.00th=[ 7898],
       | 70.00th=[ 8225], 80.00th=[ 8848], 90.00th=[45351], 95.00th=[53216],
       | 99.00th=[60556], 99.50th=[63177], 99.90th=[66847], 99.95th=[68682],
       | 99.99th=[72877]
   bw (MiB/s): min= 2108, max= 3139, per=100.00%, avg=2523.59, stdev=232.29, samples=239
   iops:        min= 2108, max= 3139, avg=2523.52, stdev=232.31, samples=239
  lat (msec):   2=0.01%, 4=0.02%, 10=0.33%, 20=96.46%, 50=3.14%
  cpu:          usr=2.16%, sys=10.43%, ctx=121084, majf=0, minf=538
  IO depths:    1=0.1%, 2=0.1%, 4=0.1%, 8=0.1%, 16=0.1%, 32=100.0%, >=64=0.0%
     submit:   0=0.0%, 4=100.0%, 8=0.0%, 16=0.0%, 32=0.0%, 64=0.0%, >=64=0.0%
     complete: 0=0.0%, 4=100.0%, 8=0.0%, 16=0.0%, 32=0.1%, 64=0.0%, >=64=0.0%
     issued rwts: total=302308,0,0,0 short=0,0,0,0 dropped=0,0,0,0
     latency: target=0, window=0, percentile=100.00%, depth=32

Run status group 0 (all jobs):
   READ: bw=2519MiB/s (2641MB/s), 2519MiB/s-2519MiB/s (2641MB/s-2641MB/s), io=295GiB (317GB), run=120006-120006msec

Disk stats (read/write):
  vda: ios=310515159/6186864641448, merge=0/20, ticks=3902663/857, in_queue=3903552, util=88.06%


    19. fio random read 4K QD32 
    root@dedi:~# fio \
    --name=randread \
    --filename=~/vps-benchmark/fio-test \
    --size=5G \
    --rw=randread \
    --bs=4k \
    --direct=1 \
    --ioengine=libaio \
    --iodepth=32 \
    --runtime=180 \
    --time_based \
    --group_reporting

randread (g=0): rw=randread, bs=(R) 4096B-4096B, (W) 4096B-4096B, (T) 4096B-4096B, ioengine=libaio, iodepth=32
fio-3.39
Starting 1 process
Jobs: 1 (f=1), [r(1)][100.0%][r=62.8MiB/s][r=16.1k IOPS][eta 00m:00s]
randread (groupid=0, jobs=1): err= 0 pid=2739232 Sat Sep 26 00:06:40 2026
  read: IOPS=14.9k, BW=58.1MiB/s (60.9MB/s)(10.2GiB/180034msec)
    slat (usec): min=3, max=63689, avg=16.25, stdev=48.41
    clat (usec): min=69, max=81680, avg=2134.65, stdev=9342.76
     lat (usec): min=91, max=81687, avg=2150.90, stdev=9342.24
    clat percentiles (usec):
       |  1.00th=[  277],  5.00th=[  347], 10.00th=[  396], 20.00th=[  478],
       | 30.00th=[  578], 40.00th=[  693], 50.00th=[  775], 60.00th=[  840],
       | 70.00th=[  898], 80.00th=[  971], 90.00th=[ 1090], 95.00th=[ 1287],
       | 99.00th=[64750], 99.50th=[68682], 99.90th=[74974], 99.95th=[76022],
       | 99.99th=[78119]
   bw (KiB/s): min=47488, max=73434, per=100.00%, avg=59543.82, stdev=3961.07, samples=359
   iops:        min=11872, max=18358, avg=14885.88, stdev=990.26, samples=359
  lat (usec):  100=0.01%, 250=0.45%, 500=21.83%, 750=24.55%, 1000=36.52%
  lat (msec):    2=14.05%, 4=0.32%, 10=0.12%, 20=0.01%, 50=0.01%, 100=2.14%
  cpu:          usr=9.94%, sys=23.32%, ctx=52155, majf=0, minf=41
  IO depths:    1=0.1%, 2=0.1%, 4=0.1%, 8=0.1%, 16=0.1%, 32=100.0%, >=64=0.0%
     submit:   0=0.0%, 4=100.0%, 8=0.0%, 16=0.0%, 32=0.0%, 64=0.0%, >=64=0.0%
     complete: 0=0.0%, 4=100.0%, 8=0.0%, 16=0.0%, 32=0.1%, 64=0.0%, >=64=0.0%
     issued rwts: total=2675959,0,0,0 short=0,0,0,0 dropped=0,0,0,0
     latency: target=0, window=0, percentile=100.00%, depth=32

Run status group 0 (all jobs):
   READ: bw=58.1MiB/s (60.9MB/s), 58.1MiB/s-58.1MiB/s (60.9MB/s-60.9MB/s), io=10.2GiB (11.0GB), run=180034-180034msec

Disk stats (read/write):
  vda: ios=2675927394/214074163864, merge=0/63, ticks=4556292/2794, in_queue=4559123, util=90.73%


    20. fio random write 4K QD32 
    root@dedi:~# fio \
    --name=randwrite \
    --filename=~/vps-benchmark/fio-test \
    --size=5G \
    --rw=randwrite \
    --bs=4k \
    --direct=1 \
    --ioengine=libaio \
    --iodepth=32 \
    --runtime=180 \
    --time_based \
    --group_reporting

randwrite (g=0): rw=randwrite, bs=(R) 4096B-4096B, (W) 4096B-4096B, (T) 4096B-4096B, ioengine=libaio, iodepth=32
fio-3.39
Starting 1 process
Jobs: 1 (f=1), [w(1)][100.0%][w=52.9MiB/s][w=13.5k IOPS][eta 00m:00s]
randwrite (groupid=0, jobs=1): err= 0 pid=2739702 Sat Sep 26 00:10:14 2026
  write: IOPS=13.6k, BW=53.0MiB/s (55.5MB/s)(9538MiB/180053msec); 0 zone resets
    slat (usec): min=4, max=64107, avg=21.63, stdev=63.88
    clat (usec): min=89, max=78741, avg=2335.67, stdev=9057.73
     lat (usec): min=121, max=78747, avg=2357.30, stdev=9056.57
    clat percentiles (usec):
       |  1.00th=[  330],  5.00th=[  408], 10.00th=[  461], 20.00th=[  553],
       | 30.00th=[  660], 40.00th=[  799], 50.00th=[  938], 60.00th=[ 1057],
       | 70.00th=[ 1172], 80.00th=[ 1287], 90.00th=[ 1450], 95.00th=[ 1696],
       | 99.00th=[61080], 99.50th=[65799], 99.90th=[71828], 99.95th=[72877],
       | 99.99th=[74974]
   bw (KiB/s): min=40216, max=73744, per=100.00%, avg=54311.68, stdev=4903.07, samples=359
   iops:        min=10054, max=18436, avg=13577.80, stdev=1225.80, samples=359
  lat (usec):  100=0.01%, 250=0.09%, 500=14.27%, 750=22.24%, 1000=18.32%
  lat (msec):    2=41.70%, 4=0.93%, 10=0.10%, 20=0.01%, 50=0.10%, 100=2.26%
  cpu:          usr=6.84%, sys=24.94%, ctx=1237382, majf=0, minf=9
  IO depths:    1=0.1%, 2=0.1%, 4=0.1%, 8=0.1%, 16=0.1%, 32=100.0%, >=64=0.0%
     submit:   0=0.0%, 4=100.0%, 8=0.0%, 16=0.0%, 32=0.0%, 64=0.0%, >=64=0.0%
     complete: 0=0.0%, 4=0.0%, 8=0.0%, 16=0.0%, 32=0.1%, 64=0.0%, >=64=0.0%
     issued rwts: total=0,2441621,0,0 short=0,0,0,0 dropped=0,0,0,0
     latency: target=0, window=0, percentile=100.00%, depth=32

Run status group 0 (all jobs):
  WRITE: bw=53.0MiB/s (55.5MB/s), 53.0MiB/s-53.0MiB/s (55.5MB/s-55.5MB/s), io=9538MiB (10.0GB), run=180053-180053msec

Disk stats (read/write):
  vda: ios=2782440778/2131219527760, merge=0/164, ticks=7433980/234, in_queue=3981069, util=89.73%


    21. fio 4K random read latency QD1 
    root@dedi:~# fio \
    --name=latency \
    --filename=~/vps-benchmark/fio-test \
    --size=2G \
    --rw=randread \
    --bs=4k \
    --direct=1 \
    --ioengine=libaio \
    --iodepth=1 \
    --runtime=180 \
    --time_based \
    --group_reporting

latency (g=0): rw=randread, bs=(R) 4096B-4096B, (W) 4096B-4096B, (T) 4096B-4096B, ioengine=libaio, iodepth=1
fio-3.39
Starting 1 process
Jobs: 1 (f=1), [r(1)][100.0%][r=9.98MiB/s][r=2556 IOPS][eta 00m:00s]
latency (groupid=0, jobs=1): err= 0 pid=2740271 Sat Sep 26 00:14:05 2026
  read: IOPS=2570, BW=10.0MiB/s (10.5MB/s)(1807MiB/180001msec)
    slat (usec): min=7, max=9430, avg=28.32, stdev=26.37
    clat (usec): min=4, max=14330, avg=357.26, stdev=122.10
     lat (usec): min=112, max=14370, avg=385.58, stdev=125.86
    clat percentiles (usec):
       |  1.00th=[  172],  5.00th=[  223], 10.00th=[  255], 20.00th=[  293],
       | 30.00th=[  318], 40.00th=[  338], 50.00th=[  355], 60.00th=[  375],
       | 70.00th=[  392], 80.00th=[  416], 90.00th=[  453], 95.00th=[  478],
       | 99.00th=[  553], 99.50th=[  611], 99.90th=[ 1188], 99.95th=[ 1893],
       | 99.99th=[ 4293]
   bw (KiB/s): min= 9088, max=13032, per=100.00%, avg=10294.14, stdev=637.98, samples=359
   iops:        min= 2272, max= 3258, avg=2573.46, stdev=159.52, samples=359
  lat (usec):   10=0.01%, 20=0.01%, 50=0.01%, 100=0.01%, 250=9.22%
  lat (usec):  500=87.96%, 750=2.57%, 1000=0.10%
  lat (msec):    2=0.09%, 4=0.03%, 10=0.01%, 20=0.01%
  cpu:          usr=3.09%, sys=10.70%, ctx=464574, majf=0, minf=10
  IO depths:    1=100.0%, 2=0.0%, 4=0.0%, 8=0.0%, 16=0.0%, 32=0.0%, >=64=0.0%
     submit:   0=0.0%, 4=100.0%, 8=0.0%, 16=0.0%, 32=0.0%, 64=0.0%, >=64=0.0%
     complete: 0=0.0%, 4=100.0%, 8=0.0%, 16=0.0%, 32=0.0%, 64=0.0%, >=64=0.0%
     issued rwts: total=462638,0,0,0 short=0,0,0,0 dropped=0,0,0,0
     latency: target=0, window=0, percentile=100.00%, depth=1

Run status group 0 (all jobs):
   READ: bw=10.0MiB/s (10.5MB/s), 10.0MiB/s-10.0MiB/s (10.5MB/s-10.5MB/s), io=1807MiB (1895MB), run=180001-180001msec

Disk stats (read/write):
  vda: ios=462388486/36994004552, merge=0/55, ticks=1666462/04, in_queue=166885, util=89.19%


    22. fio queue depth sweep 
    root@dedi:~# for qd in 1 2 4 8 16 32 64; do
    fio \
        --name=qd-$qd \
        --filename=~/vps-benchmark/fio-test \
        --size=2G \
        --rw=randread \
        --bs=4k \
        --direct=1 \
        --ioengine=libaio \
        --iodepth=$qd \
        --runtime=60 \
        --time_based \
        --group_reporting
done | tee ~/vps-benchmark/queue-depth.txt


===== QD1 =====
  read: IOPS=2554, BW=9.98MiB/s (10.5MB/s)(599MiB/60001msec)
    clat (usec): min=5, max=10752, avg=358.62, stdev=105.78

===== QD2 =====
  read: IOPS=5716, BW=22.3MiB/s (23.4MB/s)(1340MiB/60001msec)
    clat (usec): min=7, max=15297, avg=326.65, stdev=147.26

===== QD4 =====
  read: IOPS=11.1k, BW=43.5MiB/s (45.6MB/s)(2611MiB/60006msec)
    clat (usec): min=3, max=44623, avg=345.52, stdev=1912.64

===== QD8 =====
  read: IOPS=15.5k, BW=60.6MiB/s (63.6MB/s)(3637MiB/60001msec)
    clat (usec): min=31, max=59521, avg=499.78, stdev=3692.92

===== QD16 =====
  read: IOPS=16.0k, BW=62.7MiB/s (65.7MB/s)(3764MiB/60043msec)
    clat (usec): min=68, max=71407, avg=980.12, stdev=6114.50

===== QD32 =====
  read: IOPS=15.1k, BW=58.8MiB/s (61.7MB/s)(3529MiB/60001msec)
    clat (usec): min=89, max=79401, avg=2107.50, stdev=9259.43

===== QD64 =====
  read: IOPS=14.0k, BW=54.9MiB/s (57.5MB/s)(3295MiB/60038msec)
    clat (usec): min=190, max=87190, avg=4537.96, stdev=14241.15

    unemployed life ultra pro max

    Thanked by 1skimply153
  • TandoorTandoor Member
    edited September 25

    @phphelp said:
    @DediRock Don't use DediRock's VPS. Their sub-$10 VPS is severely oversold — the CPU can't handle Telegram bots at all, with usage constantly hitting 100%. I'd suggest spending a bit more and going with Colocrossing or RackNerd instead; their overselling isn't as bad right now. DediRock's cheap VPS is basically a toy machine with terrible CPU performance.

    Dedirock works OK. Delux something is very over sold always! Cpu steal and iowait is high most of the time.

  • DediRockDediRock Member, Patron Provider

    @phphelp said:
    @DediRock Don't use DediRock's VPS. Their sub-$10 VPS is severely oversold — the CPU can't handle Telegram bots at all, with usage constantly hitting 100%. I'd suggest spending a bit more and going with Colocrossing or RackNerd instead; their overselling isn't as bad right now. DediRock's cheap VPS is basically a toy machine with terrible CPU performance.

    Hey @phphelp,

    How are you, man? Sorry to hear about your experience. I will DM you to get more info, as I would like to check your account. I can say in the past year I have added more policies to ensure a better customer experience. For sure new things still come up that can impact the performance (had some provisioning errors the past 2 months), but always here to help and see how I can make it right and fix things. Talk to you soon.

    Thanks

  • DediRockDediRock Member, Patron Provider

    @phphelp said:
    @DediRock I’d suggest going with RackNerd instead. The VPS plans under $10 on DediRock suffer from severe overselling, resulting in really poor CPU performance. At this point, their sub-$10 VPS offerings have completely ruined their reputation. Who would still dare to buy higher-priced VPS plans from DediRock after this?

    Hey @phphelp,

    Just responding to you here as well. Sorry for any trouble caused. Just DM'd you. I would like to get your account info so I can take a look. Looking forward to hearing back from you. We will get it all sorted out.

    Thank you

  • marlmarl Member

    @phphelp said:
    @DediRock Don't use DediRock's VPS. Their sub-$10 VPS is severely oversold — the CPU can't handle Telegram bots at all, with usage constantly hitting 100%. I'd suggest spending a bit more and going with Colocrossing or RackNerd instead; their overselling isn't as bad right now. DediRock's cheap VPS is basically a toy machine with terrible CPU performance.

    i wonder which is light discord or telegram, I have the la from dd, but i got no issue. discord bot is light usage tho, used for music, role and creating voice channels. i also have self hosted AIOStreams on it.

    what does your telegram bot does if you don't mind me asking.

    Thanked by 1itzsenu
  • forestforest Member

    @kukara4 said: Regular VPS servers, not cloud.

    What exactly is the difference between VPS and cloud by your definition?

  • DrNutellaDrNutella Member

    @DediRock said:

    @phphelp said:
    @DediRock I’d suggest going with RackNerd instead. The VPS plans under $10 on DediRock suffer from severe overselling, resulting in really poor CPU performance. At this point, their sub-$10 VPS offerings have completely ruined their reputation. Who would still dare to buy higher-priced VPS plans from DediRock after this?

    Hey @phphelp,

    Just responding to you here as well. Sorry for any trouble caused. Just DM'd you. I would like to get your account info so I can take a look. Looking forward to hearing back from you. We will get it all sorted out.

    Thank you

    Racknerd and Dedirock are both on par. No issues exist on either service. Seems like fake feedback.

  • forestforest Member

    @DrNutella said:

    @DediRock said:

    @phphelp said:
    @DediRock I’d suggest going with RackNerd instead. The VPS plans under $10 on DediRock suffer from severe overselling, resulting in really poor CPU performance. At this point, their sub-$10 VPS offerings have completely ruined their reputation. Who would still dare to buy higher-priced VPS plans from DediRock after this?

    Hey @phphelp,

    Just responding to you here as well. Sorry for any trouble caused. Just DM'd you. I would like to get your account info so I can take a look. Looking forward to hearing back from you. We will get it all sorted out.

    Thank you

    Racknerd and Dedirock are both on par. No issues exist on either service. Seems like fake feedback.

    Aren't they both CC resellers? So it would make sense.

  • kukara4kukara4 Member, Patron Provider

    @forest said:

    @kukara4 said: Regular VPS servers, not cloud.

    What exactly is the difference between VPS and cloud by your definition?

    What I mean by cloud and VPS in our case and what we have now:

    Cloud
    - Replicated network storage
    - HA / online migration
    - Private networks
    - Software routers / gateways
    - Security groups / ACLs
    - Floating IPs
    - Warden (L1 protection)
    - Noisy neighbor protection, CPU guard, network guard, disk QoS
    - Snapshots
    - DR backups to other jurisdictions, with boot check
    - Grow disk separately, without changing CPU or plan
    - Custom ISO
    - API / Terraform
    - CPU Basic or High Frequency, Burst or Sustained

    VPS
    - Local storage, RAID 5/10
    - Simple backups
    - CPU best effort, any model

    Some features maybe will come to VPS later, but base setup will stay same.

    Cloud VM is part of hyperconverged cluster. Physical node where it runs is just replaceable piece of hardware. We watch resource usage and fix imbalances on the fly. We think about capacity of whole cluster, not one node. We keep spare capacity and schedulers do VM placement. Disks are not tied to node, so when VM moves we don't copy disks to other server.

    Our regular VPS is just VM on standalone server with local storage.

    Example. Node is fully sold. While real usage is low, all is fine. Then everyone starts to use resources at same time. In our cloud guards move noisy VMs to other nodes if there is room. If not, they limit CPU for noisy ones, so Sustained VMs get their resources. On regular VPS all VMs share same server and slow down when it's overloaded.

  • zhuyezhuye Member

    @kukara4 said:
    You can try our new product line, VPS. Regular VPS servers, not cloud. This product is in beta, so you can become first tester.

    Here are prices:

    • VPS 1: 1 vCPU, 1 GB RAM, 20 GB disk, 1 TB traffic, €1.00/mo
    • VPS 2: 2 vCPU, 2 GB RAM, 40 GB disk, 2 TB traffic, €1.90/mo
    • VPS 4: 3 vCPU, 4 GB RAM, 80 GB disk, 3 TB traffic, €3.60/mo
    • VPS 8: 4 vCPU, 8 GB RAM, 160 GB disk, 4 TB traffic, €6.90/mo
    • VPS 16: 6 vCPU, 16 GB RAM, 320 GB disk, 5 TB traffic, €13.50/mo

    Every plan has 1 IPv4, /56 IPv6, 1 Gbit/s port, 10k IOPS, CPU model best effort. After traffic quota port slows to 100 Mbit/s. Location Bucharest, Romania, EU. Billing is hourly.

    Weekly backups are available for +20% of plan price.

    Where can I purchase or try out the product/service

  • kukara4kukara4 Member, Patron Provider

    @zhuye said:

    @kukara4 said:
    You can try our new product line, VPS. Regular VPS servers, not cloud. This product is in beta, so you can become first tester.

    Here are prices:

    • VPS 1: 1 vCPU, 1 GB RAM, 20 GB disk, 1 TB traffic, €1.00/mo
    • VPS 2: 2 vCPU, 2 GB RAM, 40 GB disk, 2 TB traffic, €1.90/mo
    • VPS 4: 3 vCPU, 4 GB RAM, 80 GB disk, 3 TB traffic, €3.60/mo
    • VPS 8: 4 vCPU, 8 GB RAM, 160 GB disk, 4 TB traffic, €6.90/mo
    • VPS 16: 6 vCPU, 16 GB RAM, 320 GB disk, 5 TB traffic, €13.50/mo

    Every plan has 1 IPv4, /56 IPv6, 1 Gbit/s port, 10k IOPS, CPU model best effort. After traffic quota port slows to 100 Mbit/s. Location Bucharest, Romania, EU. Billing is hourly.

    Weekly backups are available for +20% of plan price.

    Where can I purchase or try out the product/service

    Sent you DM :)

  • mhpteammhpteam Member

    last @berohost anniversary had $12/yr or €12/yr (i don't remember) for 1c 9275F and 2gb ram, there are currently no special occasions to get high perf at that price so I think you should wait.

  • openidopenid Member

    Many people say that the VPS service provided by @dedirock is not very good, but I feel it is acceptable; it matches the quality level that one would expect to receive for the cost paid.

  • mammoth99mammoth99 Member
    edited September 26

    @zhuye said:

    @kukara4 said:
    You can try our new product line, VPS. Regular VPS servers, not cloud. This product is in beta, so you can become first tester.

    Here are prices:

    • VPS 1: 1 vCPU, 1 GB RAM, 20 GB disk, 1 TB traffic, €1.00/mo
    • VPS 2: 2 vCPU, 2 GB RAM, 40 GB disk, 2 TB traffic, €1.90/mo
    • VPS 4: 3 vCPU, 4 GB RAM, 80 GB disk, 3 TB traffic, €3.60/mo
    • VPS 8: 4 vCPU, 8 GB RAM, 160 GB disk, 4 TB traffic, €6.90/mo
    • VPS 16: 6 vCPU, 16 GB RAM, 320 GB disk, 5 TB traffic, €13.50/mo

    Every plan has 1 IPv4, /56 IPv6, 1 Gbit/s port, 10k IOPS, CPU model best effort. After traffic quota port slows to 100 Mbit/s. Location Bucharest, Romania, EU. Billing is hourly.

    Weekly backups are available for +20% of plan price.

    Where can I purchase or try out the product/service

    .

  • serverpointserverpoint Member, Patron Provider
    edited 2:51AM

    @kukara4 said:

    @forest said:

    @kukara4 said: Regular VPS servers, not cloud.

    What exactly is the difference between VPS and cloud by your definition?

    What I mean by cloud and VPS in our case and what we have now:

    Cloud
    - Replicated network storage
    - HA / online migration
    - Private networks
    - Software routers / gateways
    - Security groups / ACLs
    - Floating IPs
    - Warden (L1 protection)
    - Noisy neighbor protection, CPU guard, network guard, disk QoS
    - Snapshots
    - DR backups to other jurisdictions, with boot check
    - Grow disk separately, without changing CPU or plan
    - Custom ISO
    - API / Terraform
    - CPU Basic or High Frequency, Burst or Sustained

    VPS
    - Local storage, RAID 5/10
    - Simple backups
    - CPU best effort, any model

    Some features maybe will come to VPS later, but base setup will stay same.

    Cloud VM is part of hyperconverged cluster. Physical node where it runs is just replaceable piece of hardware. We watch resource usage and fix imbalances on the fly. We think about capacity of whole cluster, not one node. We keep spare capacity and schedulers do VM placement. Disks are not tied to node, so when VM moves we don't copy disks to other server.

    Our regular VPS is just VM on standalone server with local storage.

    Example. Node is fully sold. While real usage is low, all is fine. Then everyone starts to use resources at same time. In our cloud guards move noisy VMs to other nodes if there is room. If not, they limit CPU for noisy ones, so Sustained VMs get their resources. On regular VPS all VMs share same server and slow down when it's overloaded.

    hmm our infrastructure is almost like that (no Terraform though), but we still call it VPS...

    For SEO purposes, "cloud" is too broad.

    Although, SEO is kind of dying a fast death, thanks to LLMs...

    Thanked by 1kukara4
  • aphexaphex Member

    @kukara4 said: Sent you DM :)

    How about you post it here

  • robertcarlosrobertcarlos Member

    For a Telegram bot, you don’t need much hardware. I’d look for a basic 1GB VPS with 1 vCPU and SSD storage. There are usually yearly deals around the $10–12 range on LowEndTalk, so I’d compare the current offers and provider reputation before choosing one.

  • YachiyoYachiyo Member

    @phphelp said:
    @DediRock Don't use DediRock's VPS. Their sub-$10 VPS is severely oversold — the CPU can't handle Telegram bots at all, with usage constantly hitting 100%. I'd suggest spending a bit more and going with Colocrossing or RackNerd instead; their overselling isn't as bad right now. DediRock's cheap VPS is basically a toy machine with terrible CPU performance.

    You won't find another VPS with 1 vCPU, 1.5GB RAM, and 1.5TB HDD storage for just $18/yr.

    And… It's only $10! ​​If it's a monthly payment rather than an annual one, you can certainly get what you need.

    Thanked by 2rpqu itzsenu
  • kukara4kukara4 Member, Patron Provider

    @serverpoint said:

    @kukara4 said:

    @forest said:

    @kukara4 said: Regular VPS servers, not cloud.

    What exactly is the difference between VPS and cloud by your definition?

    What I mean by cloud and VPS in our case and what we have now:

    Cloud
    - Replicated network storage
    - HA / online migration
    - Private networks
    - Software routers / gateways
    - Security groups / ACLs
    - Floating IPs
    - Warden (L1 protection)
    - Noisy neighbor protection, CPU guard, network guard, disk QoS
    - Snapshots
    - DR backups to other jurisdictions, with boot check
    - Grow disk separately, without changing CPU or plan
    - Custom ISO
    - API / Terraform
    - CPU Basic or High Frequency, Burst or Sustained

    VPS
    - Local storage, RAID 5/10
    - Simple backups
    - CPU best effort, any model

    Some features maybe will come to VPS later, but base setup will stay same.

    Cloud VM is part of hyperconverged cluster. Physical node where it runs is just replaceable piece of hardware. We watch resource usage and fix imbalances on the fly. We think about capacity of whole cluster, not one node. We keep spare capacity and schedulers do VM placement. Disks are not tied to node, so when VM moves we don't copy disks to other server.

    Our regular VPS is just VM on standalone server with local storage.

    Example. Node is fully sold. While real usage is low, all is fine. Then everyone starts to use resources at same time. In our cloud guards move noisy VMs to other nodes if there is room. If not, they limit CPU for noisy ones, so Sustained VMs get their resources. On regular VPS all VMs share same server and slow down when it's overloaded.

    hmm our infrastructure is almost like that (no Terraform though), but we still call it VPS...

    For SEO purposes, "cloud" is too broad.

    Although, SEO is kind of dying a fast death, thanks to LLMs...

    Yes, maybe it's just naming. But for me there is difference. Cloud is when I can setup router, networks with internet and without, attach disk separately and choose its speed, automate all this with API or Terraform, pay by hour only for what I use, and VM moves between nodes by itself. If I can't do this, for me it's VPS, even if very good one :)

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