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@forest whats your thoughts on KiwiIRC.?
Materick mentioned
Never used it. I don't use web portals, I always used irssi and weechat.
Oopse only just checking this thread now.
Yea it is not that I care about modern but I think that would help onboarding people who are used to discord, which is going to be 99% of the general populous now who aren't hardcore nerds.
Could this one you just be integrated to the website so the users wouldn't have to install anything? I think this will really help to get people to use, making the bar as low as possible to enable them to use it.
Most peoples complaints when I tried to get them to use some other open source chat client was 'I don't want to have to install another app for this one group' which would avoid this issue.
I don't see what all the fuss is about federated. I just want one chat open source platform for whatever group I want to create. I don't care about everything linking together like fb, twitter, insta, snap, blah - their open source equivalents of course. That seems to be a hangover from monopolies/data mining mindset that everything must be linked to everything else.
Just want an open source option for each and have them interlinked on my own site. Just the main 2 being a static forum and real time chat and maybe a blog too to make posts on the niche so people may find in search engine- not that I am going to play the whole seo game. I have not understood the hype about 'federated'.
Yeah it's self-hosted, so you can put it on your own site easily.
I have used element for years now but only for the voice chat to talk to a family member which I found initially as a cross platform alternative to skype which was still popular back then- remember that? lol, referencing skype is now like how people used to reference msn messenger when skype was the 'it' thing.
I did explore it for chat groups as well as like you say it seemed the best contender due to its apparent nicer ui and better establishment of the matrix network, plus you don't have to host yourself which is important for testing out groups as I don't want to have to self host for every test.
Back then they had this ridiculous omission that it was impossible to delete your previous chat groups and they would just stay there forever empty which seemed insane. You would have had to go into your server if self hosting, manually and delete the files from the cli from what I remember. So if you were not self hosting then the group would just be 'there' online somewhere on someone else's servers.
I see now they finally changed that where the group will self delete after x days if you kick every member which seems like a reasonable solution. Why they wouldn't implement a core function like that from the start I don't know, waiting like a decade to add it in.
@user3028938 man your posts are too long to be read.
From what I understand (and this is really simplifying it), federation allows multiple instances and its users to talk to eachother.
So if you want to send a DM to someone on a different server, you don't have to open a 2nd client, log in with a 2nd account, ... The servers can talk to eachother to accomplish that (or you can authenticate with their server, implementation details, yadda yadda).
Not much to do with linking external providers.
Yes!
I agree with the randomly numbered user - federation isn't really important. Federation in Matrix means two things: that you don't need to create an account on each server whose channels you join, and that no specific server can ban a channel. But it comes with so much slowness and instability it's clearly not worth it.
IRC is technically federated, but servers trust each other so much that you either disable a lot of features or you have to have one organisation running the whole network. You can't let just anyone connect a server (as Matrix does) and also let the moderation commands actually work.
IRCnet still runs in a trusted federated manner with each server run by a different organisation, but this brings a lot of problems, like it not being simple to find a server that will let you connect. Libera and most other networks are a single organisation each, with unified policies.
This is something a BNC handles since it's running on a server/VPS (make sure the provider allows IRC). A regular BNC is more work but thelounge is actually awesome for this as it handles any client you can use a browser with perfectly (at least running it in private mode). Regarding nickserver, the signup/verify is more than average folks are used to (since it's commands) but you can easily tell your client or thelounge your username and pass for the connection and have it signin for you once you've completed it.
The only thing I've found with thelounge that's a little annoying is that it will sometimes pend a number to my username (PuDLeZ in the case of libera.chat) but that's more of a me problem since I have it check/apply updates daily and reboot the VPS if it's required for the updates (I usually strive for a "set & forget" config). I never did dig into it or try to prevent it since it's not that annoying. I'm guessing the server still thinks my old connection is there since shutdown/startup doesn't take that long so it uses PuDLeZ1/2/3/... instead. When I check chat and notice/it bugs me, I just do
/nick PuDLeZand I have it back.XMPP I have read the name around, over the years when searching these issues but not really looked into it. I only know it related to pidgin.
Why would it be better than IRC? Irc has the long history behind it. XMPP I know is pretty old too but what makes it better than IRC?
Seems to be the general case but I think because I would be marketing my own site then it should hopefully gain its own momentum. For example I ran a discord for many years around work and I just made bots to spam private messages to people and so it was automated to get new users that way. So I remember how to make the 'funnel' but of course might hit a wall again with the 'don't know it, not discord; not interested' but that is why I am saying lowest investment sign up would be so important there.
I have joined a couple of IRCs via web pages and it was extremely easy to start interacting, which is in contrast to all the bullshit other popular social medias are nowadays with mandotory phone, ID, fingerprint, DNA sample.
Ye I have read the general idea, but I don't see how that matters for a small group being created for your website to allow real time chat with the visitors. Yes it would be useful if you wanted to grow it to find other people from x niche in the world to mix up your audience but don't think it is relevant for this purpose here.
Ah great point, thanks for reminding me. I forgot about that. It is a serious problem and dealbreaker.
When I ran my discord server, as a daily user of it, I know how important it was to catch up on all the gossip while I was away and people were from various parts of the world so you would get spurts of convo from them while you were offline and vice versa so history being viewable from while you were absent is essential.
That would put matrix back to the top of the pile. What about XMPP which has been mentioned earlier? will that allow that functionality too? Really though matrix is probably the best unless others have other ideas, because it does allow certain of that 'brainrot emojis' you refer to that people are used to, or at least enough rudimentary ones to satiate most and the over more modern look with element or other use friendly clients, with good overall support and active development.
I think The Lounge uses bouncers so you don't have to worry about that. It pretty much modernizes IRC.
Not following, how do bouncers relate to being able to see previous post history?
That's what a bouncer does. It stays perpetually connected so that, when you connect to the bouncer, your client is automatically given a copy of the room history and any messages that were received while you were gone.
BNCs and clients such as The Lounge, IRCCloud, and ZNC, can log and preserve chat history.
Discord feels like it runs IRC servers on the backend, highly customized probably, but IRC servers regardless.
At the very least, Discord is heavily inspired by IRC. Not the other way around.
Yes. When you log in, you can scroll back to see what people were talking about behind your back. It also keeps open the messages from other people who contacted you while you were offline.
You can set up The Lounge as the simple webirc web client (they just enter a nickname, connect, and chat - there’s no previous history) for people to access your IRC network, or as a user account/bouncer with their own personalized settings (with all the history, channels, and personal chats kept open until you close them) even after disconnection.
You're interested in the second option.
I really wish I had a "...what?" button next to my "Thanks" button sometimes.
Discord feels like it runs a IRC server beneath, it even is called a "Discord Server" -- you have channels, nicks etc. and similar text output style etc. just with fancier interface.
If you are an IRC old timer, the correlatiosn are plain and completely f'ng obvious. You just get your own server instead of just an channel.
Inspired by, sure. It even secretly supports sed (s/old/new), which is probably a direct nod to IRC.
But you also said "not the other way around", which, yea? I'd say that's "completely f'ing obvious" because one predates the other by 2+ decades...
But the scale is completely different, none of it is going to be IRC underneath.
All chat applications will have similarities because at their core they are going to be very simple, lmao.
And the servers are technically called guilds, but that name never stuck around. You'll still encounter it in the API documentation though.
The distinction is generally harmless, since you can't selfhost Discord.
Technically, you can make something that implements discordapp
Why you don't like Discord, guys?
Discord went downhill since 2016/2017
This is an XKCD geology moment. The average user isn't doing all that. They're certainly not learning Linux and buying a server, nor are they getting a third-party service provider involved or paying money. What you described is way too difficult.
LET users, on the other hand, do have servers and know Linux. That's why it may work for LET.