How often do you reboot because of kernel security patches? (both providers & customers)

crunchbits · 4:26PM

@Mainfrezzer said:

@crunchbits said:

Because the time to "live migrate" 10-30 VMs, hope you didn't blow a VM/data up, and then reboot is insanely complicated versus a 1-3m reboot. It's also very high risk. If you need something better, as a customer, pay for it. Otherwise deal with a host rebooting a machine for critical CVE's.

Prior to AI-assists, CVEs like this that affect such a wide breadth of deployments were incredibly rare. I can think of maybe 1-2 in ~6 years?

@HostBilby said:

Thanks for the back up Dad, love you 😘

How dare you 2, that you 2 would hypothetically inconvenience me for 3 minutes?! OUTRAGEOUS

Just trying to convince wallets to open up, lambo insurance renewal is higher than expected this year

dedigod · 4:31PM

@crunchbits said:

@dedigod said:

@HostBilby said:

[@dedigod said]

So you take clients offline for all patches? How often are you bringing clients VMs offline?

If you don't have enough capacity to migrate for patches what do you do when there's a hardware failure like main board on a server?

No. Routine maintenance and updates don’t generally require a reboot. So they happen seamlessly to the client.

We have cold spares ready to swap in. Like most providers.

Like I said, there aren’t many providers with true HOT capacity ready to migrate an entire node of clients just for maintenance. Even the large cloud providers are the same.

If you need that level of uptime, you’re in a different snack bracket cost wise, or with a provider large enough to justify the resource sharing - shoutout @crunchbits (Synteq HPC’s new cloud, it’s awesome!)

why cant you turn on a cold spare, patch it then live migrate to them then keep doing the other servers and make the last one a spare? all enterprise systems do this and auto turn on based on capacity

Because the time to "live migrate" 10-30 VMs, hope you didn't blow a VM/data up, and then reboot is insanely complicated versus a 1-3m reboot. It's also very high risk. If you need something better, as a customer, pay for it. Otherwise deal with a host rebooting a machine for critical CVE's.

Prior to AI-assists, CVEs like this that affect such a wide breadth of deployments were incredibly rare. I can think of maybe 1-2 in ~6 years?

So you can't do it either? What hypervisor are you using and do you have shared storage?

It isn't complicated at all its automated and very normal to load balance and live migrate. There's no risk for live migration. Explain the risk here.

Are you saying you've only rebooted your servers twice in past 6 years?

drivex · 4:55PM

@dedigod said:

@crunchbits said:

@dedigod said:

@HostBilby said:

[@dedigod said]

So you take clients offline for all patches? How often are you bringing clients VMs offline?

If you don't have enough capacity to migrate for patches what do you do when there's a hardware failure like main board on a server?

No. Routine maintenance and updates don’t generally require a reboot. So they happen seamlessly to the client.

We have cold spares ready to swap in. Like most providers.

Like I said, there aren’t many providers with true HOT capacity ready to migrate an entire node of clients just for maintenance. Even the large cloud providers are the same.

If you need that level of uptime, you’re in a different snack bracket cost wise, or with a provider large enough to justify the resource sharing - shoutout @crunchbits (Synteq HPC’s new cloud, it’s awesome!)

why cant you turn on a cold spare, patch it then live migrate to them then keep doing the other servers and make the last one a spare? all enterprise systems do this and auto turn on based on capacity

Because the time to "live migrate" 10-30 VMs, hope you didn't blow a VM/data up, and then reboot is insanely complicated versus a 1-3m reboot. It's also very high risk. If you need something better, as a customer, pay for it. Otherwise deal with a host rebooting a machine for critical CVE's.

Prior to AI-assists, CVEs like this that affect such a wide breadth of deployments were incredibly rare. I can think of maybe 1-2 in ~6 years?

So you can't do it either? What hypervisor are you using and do you have shared storage?

It isn't complicated at all its automated and very normal to load balance and live migrate. There's no risk for live migration. Explain the risk here.

Are you saying you've only rebooted your servers twice in past 6 years?

When you want HA with Shared Storage (CEPH or Flash-Storage) you have to pay.

HostBilby · 4:59PM

@crunchbits said:

@Mainfrezzer said:

@crunchbits said:

Because the time to "live migrate" 10-30 VMs, hope you didn't blow a VM/data up, and then reboot is insanely complicated versus a 1-3m reboot. It's also very high risk. If you need something better, as a customer, pay for it. Otherwise deal with a host rebooting a machine for critical CVE's.

Prior to AI-assists, CVEs like this that affect such a wide breadth of deployments were incredibly rare. I can think of maybe 1-2 in ~6 years?

@HostBilby said:

Thanks for the back up Dad, love you 😘

How dare you 2, that you 2 would hypothetically inconvenience me for 3 minutes?! OUTRAGEOUS

Just trying to convince wallets to open up, lambo insurance renewal is higher than expected this year

Don’t forget gas prices!! It’s getting tough to survive on -1% margin…

OhJohn · 5:29PM

So back in 2024 I probably had to do like 3 to 6 reboots per machine per year.

Now I had one per machine yesterday, the last one per machine before 7 days ago.

So now I'm doing an extra weekend shift deploying an automated reboot routine for each machine to be done with that sh*t in the future.

AlteredParadox · 5:31PM

annnnd @dedigod is gone!

luckypenguin · 5:33PM

This question is vague for so many reasons. I reboot when I need the kernel patches
to be applied based on severity, if I run a few low-end instances that do monitoring,
I don't care about local privilege escalation, etc. So it is such a bad survey like "what
time do you go to sleep?" When I feel I need to.

crunchbits · 5:38PM

@dedigod said:

@crunchbits said:

@dedigod said:

@HostBilby said:

[@dedigod said]

So you take clients offline for all patches? How often are you bringing clients VMs offline?

If you don't have enough capacity to migrate for patches what do you do when there's a hardware failure like main board on a server?

No. Routine maintenance and updates don’t generally require a reboot. So they happen seamlessly to the client.

We have cold spares ready to swap in. Like most providers.

Like I said, there aren’t many providers with true HOT capacity ready to migrate an entire node of clients just for maintenance. Even the large cloud providers are the same.

If you need that level of uptime, you’re in a different snack bracket cost wise, or with a provider large enough to justify the resource sharing - shoutout @crunchbits (Synteq HPC’s new cloud, it’s awesome!)

why cant you turn on a cold spare, patch it then live migrate to them then keep doing the other servers and make the last one a spare? all enterprise systems do this and auto turn on based on capacity

Because the time to "live migrate" 10-30 VMs, hope you didn't blow a VM/data up, and then reboot is insanely complicated versus a 1-3m reboot. It's also very high risk. If you need something better, as a customer, pay for it. Otherwise deal with a host rebooting a machine for critical CVE's.

Prior to AI-assists, CVEs like this that affect such a wide breadth of deployments were incredibly rare. I can think of maybe 1-2 in ~6 years?

So you can't do it either? What hypervisor are you using and do you have shared storage?

It isn't complicated at all its automated and very normal to load balance and live migrate. There's no risk for live migration. Explain the risk here.

Are you saying you've only rebooted your servers twice in past 6 years?

No, our new platform is HA for VPS. It's just not in the same price category as non-HA. Need to brush up on that comprehension and stop attempting to straw man everyone's statements.

Edit: RIP, looks like already gone.

rpqu · 5:45PM

I think the questions that emerged from this thread is supposed to be pre-sales question.
I’d rather this were a joke, to expect lowend hosts on paper thin margin performing live migration. That's unrealistic demand to host with technical challenges that went unsolved for months after users reported it

buggedout · 6:01PM

@AlteredParadox said:
annnnd @dedigod is gone!

Nicee.... I was feeling nauseatic !!

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