Is VeryCloud (2c8g64g for €45.80/y) a good choice for France?

forest · July 11

They're located in Telehouse 3 and have their own AS, AS198825, with AS62000 (SERVERD) as their upstream which seems very well-connected. Their specs are good for a surprisingly low annual cost: 2 vCPUs (E5-2680 v4), 8 GB RAM, 64 GB SSD, and 100 Mbps dual stack connectivity for €45.80/year.

Their TrustPilot reviews are also very good. Based on all this, I'd definitely buy a VPS from them for a Tor relay, but France is not an obscure location by any means, so I wonder if there is anything better, or if this looks pretty solid. Are there any issues with VeryCloud that anyone is aware of?

rpqu · July 11

@forest, excluding the RAM, it looks like very average offer for 100mbps unlimited in FR. What are you going to do with the extra ram?

forest · July 11

@rpqu said:
@forest, excluding the RAM, it looks like very average offer for 100mbps unlimited in FR. What are you going to do with the extra ram?

I'll run a Hyphanet (Freenet) node, which uses Java and runs much better when there's plenty of RAM. It's a censorship-resistant distributed data store and more memory allows it to do database lookups with fewer I/O requests.

rpqu · July 11

@forest said:

@rpqu said:
@forest, excluding the RAM, it looks like very average offer for 100mbps unlimited in FR. What are you going to do with the extra ram?

I'll run a Hyphanet (Freenet) node, which uses Java and runs much better when there's plenty of RAM. It's a censorship-resistant distributed data store and more memory allows it to do database lookups with fewer I/O requests.

Oh, then it could work

concept · July 11

Theres like a bunch of no name FR hosting providers that all use that upstream.

itachikonoha · July 11

@forest said:

@rpqu said:
@forest, excluding the RAM, it looks like very average offer for 100mbps unlimited in FR. What are you going to do with the extra ram?

I'll run a Hyphanet (Freenet) node, which uses Java and runs much better when there's plenty of RAM. It's a censorship-resistant distributed data store and more memory allows it to do database lookups with fewer I/O requests.

I just have one question. What do you guys do with unlimited bandwidth?

luckypenguin · July 11

8g of ram for less than 4$/mo is always a good deal.

luckypenguin · July 11

@itachikonoha said: What do you guys do with unlimited bandwidth?

I run Tor relays. But I don't brag about it in public like @forest

forest · July 11

@itachikonoha said:

@forest said:

@rpqu said:
@forest, excluding the RAM, it looks like very average offer for 100mbps unlimited in FR. What are you going to do with the extra ram?

I'll run a Hyphanet (Freenet) node, which uses Java and runs much better when there's plenty of RAM. It's a censorship-resistant distributed data store and more memory allows it to do database lookups with fewer I/O requests.

I just have one question. What do you guys do with unlimited bandwidth?

Tor relays, I2P routers, and Hyphanet nodes. Considering adding Yggdrasil nodes to the mix. In France, Tor alone can easily saturate a 100 Mbit port. Hyphanet will often use <20 Mbps and I2P can use anywhere from 1 to 50 Mbps, in my experience.

forest · July 11

@luckypenguin said:

@itachikonoha said: What do you guys do with unlimited bandwidth?

I run Tor relays. But I don't brag about it in public like @forest

It's not about bragging, it's about spreading the word. I've had people message me and say that I inspired them to run a relay, and that always makes me feel great. It's easiest to be an advocate if you shout about it from the rooftops.

forest · July 12

Well it looks like no one has brought up any serious issues with them. They've been around for a few years and they look solid enough. No real complaints on NS (that I can see) or Reddit, so I think I'll give them a try.

oloke · July 12

https://lowendtalk.com/discussion/219007/verycloud-poor-service

^ Take that with a pinch of salt.
The OP was basically complaining they limited his unmetered connection to 50mbps after ~14TB.

emgh · July 12

@oloke said:
https://lowendtalk.com/discussion/219007/verycloud-poor-service

^ Take that with a pinch of salt.
The OP was basically complaining they limited his unmetered connection to 50mbps after ~14TB.

I love it when unmetered means metered & highly limited

Very good practise that I love that hosting companies use

forest · July 12

@oloke said:
https://lowendtalk.com/discussion/219007/verycloud-poor-service

^ Take that with a pinch of salt.
The OP was basically complaining they limited his unmetered connection to 50mbps after ~14TB.

Yep, I saw that.

@saamkuu said: The terms of service clearly state that their FUP allows for 100 TB of traffic per unit; if this limit is exceeded, the speed is reduced to 100 Mbps for the remainder of the month, and this applies to only one unit.

I figure that it'll probably not be much of an issue if I have only a single service and the service is already limited to 100 Mbps. I'll definitely ask them to be sure. They do state in their ToS that "unauthorized Tor exit nodes" are prohibited, so at least they're aware of what Tor is (obviously I'll only run a non-exit with them).

bbn12 · July 13

On the web site I only see 2vcu,6gb ram, 32gb ssd for 45eur/y....

forest · July 13

@bbn12 said:
On the web site I only see 2vcu,6gb ram, 32gb ssd for 45eur/y....

Same, but when you go to the checkout page, the specs are different.

@forest said: I'll definitely ask them to be sure

I asked them about a relay and they responded:

Merci pour votre message et pour votre transparence sur l'usage envisagé.
Malheureusement, l'exploitation de nœuds Tor y compris les relais intermédiaires n'est pas autorisée sur nos services. Ce type d'activité génère régulièrement des signalements et des contraintes de gestion que nous ne souhaitons pas prendre en charge sur notre infrastructure.
Nous vous déconseillons donc de mettre en place ce genre de configuration sur nos VPS, sous peine de suspension du service conformément à nos conditions d'utilisation.
Nous vous invitons à vous tourner vers un hébergeur dont la politique autorise explicitement ce type d'usage. Nous restons bien entendu à votre disposition pour tout besoin d'hébergement compatible avec nos CGU.

Translation:

Thank you for your message and for your transparency on the intended use.
Unfortunately, the operation of Tor nodes including intermediate relays is not allowed on our Services. This type of activity regularly generates reports and management constraints that we do not wish to support on our infrastructure.
We therefore advise you not to set up this type of configuration on our VPS, otherwise the service will be suspended in accordance with our conditions of use.
We invite you to turn to a host whose policy explicitly authorizes this type of use. We of course remain at your disposal for any accommodation needs compatible with our T&Cs.

So likely they just don't understand what a middle relay is. I rephrased and asked about a "private relay" that does not bring in abuse complaints, and I'll see what they say about that before purchasing. If this is just their way of saying "yes the ToS allows it, but we don't want you to use so much bandwidth anyway" then I certainly wish to respect that, but if it's simply a matter of not wanting abuse complaints, then of course a middle relay will be harmless.

If they don't work out, I'll open a separate requests thread to see if there is anything else available at a similar price and with similar specs, assuming I can't find one with my own research.

bbn12 · July 13

oh yeah I see now, they probably didn't updated plan info in all "systems".
also the offer page (for VPS plans) mentions 10Gbps unlimitted traffic, but checkout form lists 100Mbps unmettered.... @forest, better look for Argentina VPS provider coz they will beat France in soccer, hopefully, SOON

ps. their plans do look good, for sure.

sadaf · July 13

The specs look great for €45/year, especially the 8GB RAM. Telehouse 3 is a solid location too. The only slow part is the 100 Mbps port, but if you don't need huge speeds, it's a very good deal. Just make sure to check their policy on Tor relays before buying.

forest · July 13

@sadaf said:
The specs look great for €45/year, especially the 8GB RAM. Telehouse 3 is a solid location too. The only slow part is the 100 Mbps port, but if you don't need huge speeds, it's a very good deal. Just make sure to check their policy on Tor relays before buying.

The policy only prohibits exits, but in a ticket they say they don't want middle relays either because they cause abuse complaints (which is false), so I replied to them and am awaiting their response.

100 Mbps is not that bad since I have no need for burst traffic, and any higher would end up eating through their FUP monthly limit pretty fast. If they do end up being understanding, perhaps I could offer to trade 2 GB of RAM for an extra 50 Mbps port speed. They might take up that offer given how expensive RAM is.

JohnFilch123 · July 13

@forest said: but in a ticket they say they don't want middle relays either because they cause abuse complaints (which is false),

Sounds more like they just do not want Tor, probably because they don't understand the different between different relay types. Let's see what they will answer but I suspect they will still say no.

forest · July 13

@JohnFilch123 said:

@forest said: but in a ticket they say they don't want middle relays either because they cause abuse complaints (which is false),

Sounds more like they just do not want Tor, probably because they don't understand the different between different relay types. Let's see what they will answer but I suspect they will still say no.

They responded and said that they just want to avoid any kind of "nuisance" and don't want a "listed relay":

Thanks for the clarification. For a fully private relay, not publicly listed and generating no abuse or DMCA complaints, this is not a problem on our services.
What matters to us is simply the absence of nuisance: as long as no abuse reports come in and the setup stays within our FUP, you're free to run it.
Should any complaints arise, we'd reach out to find a solution — but within the scope you describe, no issue at all.

I pointed out that the relay is not private and is publicly listed, but that's just how the protocol works and that it won't result in any abuse complains as it is not able to exit traffic. I suspect they'll be fine with it, but I'm still waiting their final response.

alexanderras · July 13

@forest sorry tagged you in the wrong thread! This was supposed to be here:

Have you looked into Marseille options for France?

forest · July 13

@alexanderras said:
@forest sorry tagged you in the wrong thread! This was supposed to be here:

Have you looked into Marseille options for France?

I was wondering why that thread. :P

I haven't looked into that. Right now it's not the location that matters so much as the specs. Anywhere in France should do.

alexanderras · July 13

@forest said:

@alexanderras said:
@forest sorry tagged you in the wrong thread! This was supposed to be here:

Have you looked into Marseille options for France?

I was wondering why that thread. :P

I haven't looked into that. Right now it's not the location that matters so much as the specs. Anywhere in France should do.

Got it. I was looking at Serverd downstreams specifically as they have a pop in Marseille. I have a OuiHeberg server and also looked at Pulseheberg. Have you come across other Serverd downstreams - Marseille or not?

JohnFilch123 · July 13

@alexanderras said: OuiHeberg

Traffic is 10TB, which not too bad but Tor relay will have to be throttled a bit. Do they allow it, btw?

alexanderras · July 13

@JohnFilch123 said:

@alexanderras said: OuiHeberg

Traffic is 10TB, which not too bad but Tor relay will have to be throttled a bit. Do they allow it, btw?

Yeah I’m not sure OuiHeberg would be suitable for forest - not sure about Pulseheberg

JohnFilch123 · July 13

@alexanderras said: Yeah I’m not sure OuiHeberg would be suitable for forest

Yep, t&c pretty broad:

The following are considered non-compliant with Fair Use:

Continuous use of bandwidth at 100% capacity for long periods
Hosting services requiring extremely high bandwidth (such as high-traffic video streaming sites)
Sharing or redistributing the connection to unauthorized third parties
Massive use for peer-to-peer download services
Setting up open proxies or high-traffic public VPNs
Activities generating an abnormally high number of requests or connections

forest · July 13

@JohnFilch123 said: Activities generating an abnormally high number of requests or connections

root@forest-advin-1-us:~# ss -s
Total: 16234
TCP:   17852 (estab 15728, closed 1741, orphaned 105, timewait 1741)

Transport Total     IP        IPv6
RAW       0         0         0
UDP       22        18        4
TCP       16111     13765     2346
INET      16133     13783     2350
FRAG      0         0         0

Probably won't fly.

Anyway, VeryCloud has replied again and said:

as long as the relay stays private in the sense of generating no abuse or DMCA complaints, you're good to go

They also confirmed that I can use saturate the port 24/7 as it is only 100 Mbps, so I'll set up a relay on them shortly!

alexanderras · July 13

Nice!

forest · July 14

Welp, after all this, I forgot to check if they take cryptocurrency. Let's see if they make an exception for me. I'm an idiot lol

rpqu · July 14

@forest said:
Welp, after all this, I forgot to check if they take cryptocurrency. Let's see if they make an exception for me. I'm an idiot lol

Don't. If they ever leaked, timing attack works

Howdy, Stranger!

Categories

In this Discussion

Is VeryCloud (2c8g64g for €45.80/y) a good choice for France?

Comments

Howdy, Stranger!

Quick Links

Categories

In this Discussion

Is VeryCloud (2c8g64g for €45.80/y) a good choice for France?

Comments