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Redditor writes "Filen deleted all of my data. A heads-up for others"

2»

Comments

  • yokowasisyokowasis Member

    There is literally no reason for the provider to delete ALL OF THE DATA, i repeat ALL OF THE DATA of a paying customer that it still have active service. In fact, nobody did this, like ever. I can understand if the guy late on renewal, but no. The guy has an active subscription. There is no justifiable reason, for this. Just because you failed or have no idea to implement a STOP SWITCH when your customer get over quota, doesn't mean you can just outright delete ALL OF THE DATA. I want to know what's the logic of the developer that engineer such a contraption.

  • JasonMJasonM Member

    @ascicode said: Overreacting hoster. Normally you cant upload before you delete old files. Traditionally, we dont know, whats the real reason to delete user contents

    exactly. if the storage was full don't allow further uploads but keep the uploaded data safe. why to delete that? Indeed Filen is culprit as they've developed some bad deletion policy.

  • forestforest Member

    You are only allowed to use 100 Mbps of that 10 Gbps port. It's up to you to keep under 100 Mbps. If you go over 100 Mbps, we won't throttle you, we'll just terminate your service.

    Yes, it's that ridiculous when you think about it.

    Thanked by 2rpqu 384_cz
  • rcy026rcy026 Member

    @forest said:
    You are only allowed to use 100 Mbps of that 10 Gbps port. It's up to you to keep under 100 Mbps. If you go over 100 Mbps, we won't throttle you, we'll just terminate your service.

    Yes, it's that ridiculous when you think about it.

    In fairness, your statement should read "if you go over 100 Mbps, we will give you multiple warnings over the span of several weeks. If you ignore those, then we will terminate your service".

    When you think about it like that this is not that uncommon in other services. If you constantly max out resources like cpu or bandwidth on a shared vps, it is not uncommon that the provider will terminate the service. It's often defined in the AUP.
    But this is like comparing apples with oranges so I don't really see the point of it.

  • forestforest Member

    @rcy026 said:

    @forest said:
    You are only allowed to use 100 Mbps of that 10 Gbps port. It's up to you to keep under 100 Mbps. If you go over 100 Mbps, we won't throttle you, we'll just terminate your service.

    Yes, it's that ridiculous when you think about it.

    In fairness, your statement should read "if you go over 100 Mbps, we will give you multiple warnings over the span of several weeks. If you ignore those, then we will terminate your service".

    When you think about it like that this is not that uncommon in other services. If you constantly max out resources like cpu or bandwidth on a shared vps, it is not uncommon that the provider will terminate the service. It's often defined in the AUP.
    But this is like comparing apples with oranges so I don't really see the point of it.

    Emails can easily get lost, and if you max out the CPU or any other resource, you should have the service suspended, not terminated with all files deleted (unless your actions are clearly intentional and abusive). But going over a storage limit? That shouldn't even be possible. Your storage should just be capped.

  • zedzed Member

    @rcy026 said:

    @forest said:
    You are only allowed to use 100 Mbps of that 10 Gbps port. It's up to you to keep under 100 Mbps. If you go over 100 Mbps, we won't throttle you, we'll just terminate your service.

    Yes, it's that ridiculous when you think about it.

    In fairness, your statement should read "if you go over 100 Mbps, we will give you multiple warnings over the span of several weeks. If you ignore those, then we will terminate your service".

    When you think about it like that this is not that uncommon in other services. If you constantly max out resources like cpu or bandwidth on a shared vps, it is not uncommon that the provider will terminate the service. It's often defined in the AUP.
    But this is like comparing apples with oranges so I don't really see the point of it.

    They deleted all his data for going over quota.
    How is that reasonable in any universe, comparison, or analogy?

    What kind of moron is going to use a backup service where it's even possible for a quota issue (real or imagined, amount irrelevant) to cause deletion of all existing stored data?

    Not an actual question.

    Thanked by 1forest
  • daviddavid Member

    If you haven't already, go back and read Cybr's post. It sounds like it was an edge-case bug, where the system thought they were downgrading. Still not good, but it makes more sense in light of this.

    @Cybr said:
    When I read the original post, I thought it was absolutely insane that a system could ever be designed in such a way that this could happen, and that the company should be avoided at all costs.

    After reading the devs explanation though, I'm far more understanding.

    From a users perspective, it's of course completely unacceptable that all their data could be deleted due for "going over the limit" when they paid for a limit.

    From a dev perspective, it's clear this was the consequence of a rounding bug caused by an oversight which is easy to make. The system that deleted the data was designed to do so in the case when a user has downgraded their plan but not reduced their data to fit in the downgraded quota after multiple warning emails.

    Due to the nature of all data being end-to-end encrypted, a portion of files can't be deleted by the system and even if they could, then it would still have to delete random files instead of all of it, which would arguably be even worse.

    Most providers would choose to not allow downgrading to lower quota packages at all, in which case all files are deleted anyway when the renewal isn't paid.

    The best solution, and one which Filen should implement, is to only allow downgrading if their files are less than the quota limit of the new package, forcing the user to delete the files they don't want to keep before downgrading.

  • rpqurpqu Member

    @forest said:
    You are only allowed to use 100 Mbps of that 10 Gbps port. It's up to you to keep under 100 Mbps. If you go over 100 Mbps, we won't throttle you, we'll just terminate your service.

    Yes, it's that ridiculous when you think about it.

    Sounds like @VeloxMedia ... And I mean it

  • rcy026rcy026 Member

    @zed said:

    @rcy026 said:

    @forest said:
    You are only allowed to use 100 Mbps of that 10 Gbps port. It's up to you to keep under 100 Mbps. If you go over 100 Mbps, we won't throttle you, we'll just terminate your service.

    Yes, it's that ridiculous when you think about it.

    In fairness, your statement should read "if you go over 100 Mbps, we will give you multiple warnings over the span of several weeks. If you ignore those, then we will terminate your service".

    When you think about it like that this is not that uncommon in other services. If you constantly max out resources like cpu or bandwidth on a shared vps, it is not uncommon that the provider will terminate the service. It's often defined in the AUP.
    But this is like comparing apples with oranges so I don't really see the point of it.

    They deleted all his data for going over quota.
    How is that reasonable in any universe, comparison, or analogy?

    What kind of moron is going to use a backup service where it's even possible for a quota issue (real or imagined, amount irrelevant) to cause deletion of all existing stored data?

    Not an actual question.

    He ignored several warnings over several weeks, then complains when the thing that they warned him about actually happened.
    Not saying I agree with their policy, but complaining when something you have been repeatedly warned will happen actually happens is peak snowflake.

  • forestforest Member

    @rcy026 said:

    @zed said:

    @rcy026 said:

    @forest said:
    You are only allowed to use 100 Mbps of that 10 Gbps port. It's up to you to keep under 100 Mbps. If you go over 100 Mbps, we won't throttle you, we'll just terminate your service.

    Yes, it's that ridiculous when you think about it.

    In fairness, your statement should read "if you go over 100 Mbps, we will give you multiple warnings over the span of several weeks. If you ignore those, then we will terminate your service".

    When you think about it like that this is not that uncommon in other services. If you constantly max out resources like cpu or bandwidth on a shared vps, it is not uncommon that the provider will terminate the service. It's often defined in the AUP.
    But this is like comparing apples with oranges so I don't really see the point of it.

    They deleted all his data for going over quota.
    How is that reasonable in any universe, comparison, or analogy?

    What kind of moron is going to use a backup service where it's even possible for a quota issue (real or imagined, amount irrelevant) to cause deletion of all existing stored data?

    Not an actual question.

    He ignored several warnings over several weeks, then complains when the thing that they warned him about actually happened.
    Not saying I agree with their policy, but complaining when something you have been repeatedly warned will happen actually happens is peak snowflake.

    Did he ignore it or just not read it because he didn't think it contained what it contained?

    The problem is that the provider would ever do that. It doesn't matter whether they gave warnings via email, certified mail, or painted it in the sky. At most, warnings would be a mitigating factor in this offense.

    A storage service should not be a Pythagorean cup.

    Thanked by 2buggedout gbzret4d
  • gbzret4dgbzret4d Member

    Atleast user got a full refund and a free lifetime account and they made/making changes but I have never seen them as a reliable provider and this case shows that my opinion is correct.

    We have posted a full follow up here: https://www.reddit.com/r/filen_io/comments/1t4dmgy/follow_up_regarding_the_recent_storage_quota_case/

    First of all, we want to sincerely apologize to the affected user. This should not have happened.

    We investigated the case internally and found that this was caused by an edge case in our quota handling. The affected account had an active paid 2 TB plan and was slightly above quota, but was incorrectly included in a deletion flow that is meant for accounts that are genuinely outside their storage or activity limits, such as unpaid, expired, or inactive accounts after repeated warnings.

    We have already made changes so this cannot happen again in the same way. Active paid accounts will no longer be handled like expired or unpaid over quota accounts in this situation, accounts with active subscriptions will go into read only mode instead of being pushed through the same deletion flow, and we added an additional safety buffer plus manual review for unusual quota cases. We have also improved the wording of the automatic emails and updated our internal escalation process for cases involving potential data loss or serious system behavior.

    We have issued a full refund for all of the user’s payments for this account and will offer them a free 2 TB Lifetime plan as compensation, should they wish to continue using Filen.

    We are sorry for the stress this caused. We know that cloud storage is built on trust, and in this case our system and our response process did not meet the standard users should be able to expect from us.

    The full explanation and the changes we made are in the post linked above.

    -Team Filen

  • gbzret4dgbzret4d Member

    @rcy026 said:

    @zed said:

    @rcy026 said:

    @forest said:
    You are only allowed to use 100 Mbps of that 10 Gbps port. It's up to you to keep under 100 Mbps. If you go over 100 Mbps, we won't throttle you, we'll just terminate your service.

    Yes, it's that ridiculous when you think about it.

    In fairness, your statement should read "if you go over 100 Mbps, we will give you multiple warnings over the span of several weeks. If you ignore those, then we will terminate your service".

    When you think about it like that this is not that uncommon in other services. If you constantly max out resources like cpu or bandwidth on a shared vps, it is not uncommon that the provider will terminate the service. It's often defined in the AUP.
    But this is like comparing apples with oranges so I don't really see the point of it.

    They deleted all his data for going over quota.
    How is that reasonable in any universe, comparison, or analogy?

    What kind of moron is going to use a backup service where it's even possible for a quota issue (real or imagined, amount irrelevant) to cause deletion of all existing stored data?

    Not an actual question.

    He ignored several warnings over several weeks, then complains when the thing that they warned him about actually happened.
    Not saying I agree with their policy, but complaining when something you have been repeatedly warned will happen actually happens is peak snowflake.

    If i try to upload something and would exceed my quota, the upload is not possible or gets canceled during the upload, atleast every provider I've used or I'm using handles this that way, except file, which is why I never saw them as a reliable backup provider.

  • rcy026rcy026 Member

    @forest said:

    @rcy026 said:

    @zed said:

    @rcy026 said:

    @forest said:
    You are only allowed to use 100 Mbps of that 10 Gbps port. It's up to you to keep under 100 Mbps. If you go over 100 Mbps, we won't throttle you, we'll just terminate your service.

    Yes, it's that ridiculous when you think about it.

    In fairness, your statement should read "if you go over 100 Mbps, we will give you multiple warnings over the span of several weeks. If you ignore those, then we will terminate your service".

    When you think about it like that this is not that uncommon in other services. If you constantly max out resources like cpu or bandwidth on a shared vps, it is not uncommon that the provider will terminate the service. It's often defined in the AUP.
    But this is like comparing apples with oranges so I don't really see the point of it.

    They deleted all his data for going over quota.
    How is that reasonable in any universe, comparison, or analogy?

    What kind of moron is going to use a backup service where it's even possible for a quota issue (real or imagined, amount irrelevant) to cause deletion of all existing stored data?

    Not an actual question.

    He ignored several warnings over several weeks, then complains when the thing that they warned him about actually happened.
    Not saying I agree with their policy, but complaining when something you have been repeatedly warned will happen actually happens is peak snowflake.

    Did he ignore it or just not read it because he didn't think it contained what it contained?

    Ignoring warnings because he didn't think they contained what they contained? Jesus, you took that "peak snowflake" comment and proved me wrong, this is peak snowflake.

    Thanked by 1TimboJones
  • forestforest Member
    edited May 7

    @rcy026 said:

    @forest said:

    @rcy026 said:

    @zed said:

    @rcy026 said:

    @forest said:
    You are only allowed to use 100 Mbps of that 10 Gbps port. It's up to you to keep under 100 Mbps. If you go over 100 Mbps, we won't throttle you, we'll just terminate your service.

    Yes, it's that ridiculous when you think about it.

    In fairness, your statement should read "if you go over 100 Mbps, we will give you multiple warnings over the span of several weeks. If you ignore those, then we will terminate your service".

    When you think about it like that this is not that uncommon in other services. If you constantly max out resources like cpu or bandwidth on a shared vps, it is not uncommon that the provider will terminate the service. It's often defined in the AUP.
    But this is like comparing apples with oranges so I don't really see the point of it.

    They deleted all his data for going over quota.
    How is that reasonable in any universe, comparison, or analogy?

    What kind of moron is going to use a backup service where it's even possible for a quota issue (real or imagined, amount irrelevant) to cause deletion of all existing stored data?

    Not an actual question.

    He ignored several warnings over several weeks, then complains when the thing that they warned him about actually happened.
    Not saying I agree with their policy, but complaining when something you have been repeatedly warned will happen actually happens is peak snowflake.

    Did he ignore it or just not read it because he didn't think it contained what it contained?

    Ignoring warnings because he didn't think they contained what they contained? Jesus, you took that "peak snowflake" comment and proved me wrong, this is peak snowflake.

    I think your reading comprehension skills need some work.

  • rcy026rcy026 Member

    @forest said:

    @rcy026 said:

    @forest said:

    @rcy026 said:

    @zed said:

    @rcy026 said:

    @forest said:
    You are only allowed to use 100 Mbps of that 10 Gbps port. It's up to you to keep under 100 Mbps. If you go over 100 Mbps, we won't throttle you, we'll just terminate your service.

    Yes, it's that ridiculous when you think about it.

    In fairness, your statement should read "if you go over 100 Mbps, we will give you multiple warnings over the span of several weeks. If you ignore those, then we will terminate your service".

    When you think about it like that this is not that uncommon in other services. If you constantly max out resources like cpu or bandwidth on a shared vps, it is not uncommon that the provider will terminate the service. It's often defined in the AUP.
    But this is like comparing apples with oranges so I don't really see the point of it.

    They deleted all his data for going over quota.
    How is that reasonable in any universe, comparison, or analogy?

    What kind of moron is going to use a backup service where it's even possible for a quota issue (real or imagined, amount irrelevant) to cause deletion of all existing stored data?

    Not an actual question.

    He ignored several warnings over several weeks, then complains when the thing that they warned him about actually happened.
    Not saying I agree with their policy, but complaining when something you have been repeatedly warned will happen actually happens is peak snowflake.

    Did he ignore it or just not read it because he didn't think it contained what it contained?

    Ignoring warnings because he didn't think they contained what they contained? Jesus, you took that "peak snowflake" comment and proved me wrong, this is peak snowflake.

    I think your reading comprehension skills need some work.

    You would have to elaborate on that statement, I can not see anything that would make someone draw that conclusion.

  • TimboJonesTimboJones Member
    edited May 7

    @forest said:

    @rcy026 said:

    @forest said:

    @rcy026 said:

    @zed said:

    @rcy026 said:

    @forest said:
    You are only allowed to use 100 Mbps of that 10 Gbps port. It's up to you to keep under 100 Mbps. If you go over 100 Mbps, we won't throttle you, we'll just terminate your service.

    Yes, it's that ridiculous when you think about it.

    In fairness, your statement should read "if you go over 100 Mbps, we will give you multiple warnings over the span of several weeks. If you ignore those, then we will terminate your service".

    When you think about it like that this is not that uncommon in other services. If you constantly max out resources like cpu or bandwidth on a shared vps, it is not uncommon that the provider will terminate the service. It's often defined in the AUP.
    But this is like comparing apples with oranges so I don't really see the point of it.

    They deleted all his data for going over quota.
    How is that reasonable in any universe, comparison, or analogy?

    What kind of moron is going to use a backup service where it's even possible for a quota issue (real or imagined, amount irrelevant) to cause deletion of all existing stored data?

    Not an actual question.

    He ignored several warnings over several weeks, then complains when the thing that they warned him about actually happened.
    Not saying I agree with their policy, but complaining when something you have been repeatedly warned will happen actually happens is peak snowflake.

    Did he ignore it or just not read it because he didn't think it contained what it contained?

    Ignoring warnings because he didn't think they contained what they contained? Jesus, you took that "peak snowflake" comment and proved me wrong, this is peak snowflake.

    I think your reading comprehension skills need some work.

    That's extra funny after you said

    Did he ignore it or just not read it because he didn't think it contained what it contained?"

    (that's redundant)

    Not reading something is the person with the reading comprehension problem.

  • We have come to the point where according to some people, giving out emails on an unjustified action renders it justified.....

    Thanked by 2forest meowwcc
  • forestforest Member
    edited May 8

    @itachikonoha said:
    We have come to the point where according to some people, giving out emails on an unjustified action renders it justified.....

    It reminds me of those extremist anarcho-libertarian memes.

  • rcy026rcy026 Member

    @itachikonoha said:
    We have come to the point where according to some people, giving out emails on an unjustified action renders it justified.....

    Not at all. But being warned (multiple times) that this will happen if you do not take action, and then complain when it does happen, it's so fucking snowflake it's not even funny. Absolutely no personal responsibility, it's always someone else's fault even when I break the rules.

    I do not agree with filen's policies. I think they are bad, and I would never use them. However, they are in the right to set their policies and op agreed to them when he signed up. If op choses to ignore those policies, even when warned multiple times, it is his own fault that it will have repercussions.

  • forestforest Member
    edited May 8

    @rcy026 said: However, they are in the right to set their policies

    Did anyone say they were breaking the law or didn't have the legal right?

    We're all criticizing what they did, not accusing them of doing something they had no "right" to do. I don't think anyone here is saying anything other than "wow, what a scummy thing to do". Fortunately or unfortunately, they have the right to behave that way, and at least in the US, such a contract, while shitty, is not unconscionable and thus is valid in court.

    However, this is all hypothetical because it turned out to be a mistake where the system thought they were downgrading and inappropriately deleted data. The staff of the provider apologized and recognized that what they did was so bad that they actually gave the customer a free 2 TB lifetime account. So even the provider disagrees with you and never intended this.

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