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DMCA Ignored VPS needed!

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Comments

  • ServerAstraServerAstra Member, Patron Provider

    There's so much misinformation in this topic. EU has similar laws to DMCA.
    2019 Copyright directive requires expedited takedowns and/or fast-track data report (name/address).
    Cloudflare will send IP to hoster, and if copyright holder insists - to them too.
    Per several cases against hosters (including quite costly us as well) the case can be started in ANY EU state as long as the court claims jurisdiction in which case Hamburg Court is happy to do it for example.
    So if you ignore email you will get a snailmail which will result in subpoena in any way (whether you get it and reply or not) and that subpoena will result in a hefty fine (4-5 figures) as being uncooperative is against the law in this case. However you can refuse the lawyer. Just know that subpoena alone costs 3-4 figures + lawyers fees and then non-reply increases punitive action.
    Court orders btw are enforceable all over EU from any court. They might be also in another language so good luck.
    Else is permitted but if you host a website...

  • edited May 1

    @ServerAstra said:
    There's so much misinformation in this topic.

    Yeah, its pretty much the good old DMCA-is-US-law-so-they-used-wrong-form-lol. For a second i thought about biting but nah its been the same shit way too many times by now and there really isn't anything new to add.

    Thanked by 1tentor
  • kuhakukuhaku Member

    Let me know if u had choose some good. I need dmca ignore vps too.

  • avsispavsisp Member, Patron Provider
    edited May 1

    @Tange said:

    @avsisp said:

    Interesting 🤔 we've never had this happen at all before. And I assume they don't reply to it and tell the other party the backend server IPs or provider info - so hypothetically if nobody replies, without suing Cloudflare to release the info, there's nothing they could do. ... Hypothetically, of course.

    don't know what gonna happen if the hosting company just ignore the email,however many big companies in the EU will reply these complaint, like hetzner, netcup etc...

    Yeah, since we've never actually ran into that yet - not sure how it'd be handled to be fair. It's one of those things where we'd have to see what the report says, what the law is, and act accordingly. If the report includes enough information to positivity identify that the file is hosted directly on our servers (a VPS client), I think we'd probably forward it to them. The reason being, VPS could be used for shared hosting or something of this nature. It isn't necessarily the VPS owners that's hosting the contents themselves. So we couldn't just shutdown a whole VPS for a report either way. And we don't have access to client VM contents - so we can just go inspecting client files willy-nilly. The one case where it'd be 100% VM shutdown is if it was something like T-error-sm, CP, or something and there's order from police, judge, etc in there - in which case of course we'd have to comply with a court order.

    But normally - no - a report alone wouldn't get a VM shutdown. It'd get you a ticket on your account with the report and something along the lines of "please handle this". As we assume by default that clients maybe sharing their VM in some manner, including but not limited to a shared hosting environment, shell hosting, VPN hosting, or even a file sharing hosting service, and we have no way to know that ourselves.

  • avsispavsisp Member, Patron Provider

    @ServerAstra said:
    There's so much misinformation in this topic. EU has similar laws to DMCA.
    2019 Copyright directive requires expedited takedowns and/or fast-track data report (name/address).
    Cloudflare will send IP to hoster, and if copyright holder insists - to them too.
    Per several cases against hosters (including quite costly us as well) the case can be started in ANY EU state as long as the court claims jurisdiction in which case Hamburg Court is happy to do it for example.
    So if you ignore email you will get a snailmail which will result in subpoena in any way (whether you get it and reply or not) and that subpoena will result in a hefty fine (4-5 figures) as being uncooperative is against the law in this case. However you can refuse the lawyer. Just know that subpoena alone costs 3-4 figures + lawyers fees and then non-reply increases punitive action.
    Court orders btw are enforceable all over EU from any court. They might be also in another language so good luck.
    Else is permitted but if you host a website...

    EU law is a complicated mess and isn't as simple as you claim here. It highly depends on the situation.

    If you're offering a shared hosting environment like say cPanel single account hosting, yes, you'd be required to take it down fairly quickly as it's obvious you have the ability to do so and exactly where the file is and so on.

    If you're offering a VPS, the matter changes. Do you believe the client to be offering their own shared hosting? In which case responsibility shifts to the client and you should pass it along to them to handle.

    You can be sued for anything in this life. Yes, copyright holder can always sue you. But guess who else can? The VPS client if you shut them down and they had active clients on it other than themselves and it was a single bad client.

    There's a balance to everything in life. And I'm 100% sure that you shouldn't just shut down a VPS or Dedicated Server due to a copyright complaint - unless your rather be sued for causing business harm? Which will cost a lot more than the copyright complaint will.

  • ServerAstraServerAstra Member, Patron Provider

    @avsisp said:
    EU law is a complicated mess and isn't as simple as you claim here. It highly depends on the situation.

    If you're offering a shared hosting environment like say cPanel single account hosting, yes, you'd be required to take it down fairly quickly as it's obvious you have the ability to do so and exactly where the file is and so on.

    If you're offering a VPS, the matter changes. Do you believe the client to be offering their own shared hosting? In which case responsibility shifts to the client and you should pass it along to them to handle.

    You can be sued for anything in this life. Yes, copyright holder can always sue you. But guess who else can? The VPS client if you shut them down and they had active clients on it other than themselves and it was a single bad client.

    There's a balance to everything in life. And I'm 100% sure that you shouldn't just shut down a VPS or Dedicated Server due to a copyright complaint - unless your rather be sued for causing business harm? Which will cost a lot more than the copyright complaint will.

    EU law is pretty clear and you can read them directly in most languages. As an EU resident company you must adhere to your local laws which are usually a localisation of an EU law (thus even stricter in most regards) when such law exists or to the upstream law while a localisation is being made.
    Per DSA you have to act expeditiously - this is relayed to local laws. The customer has the right to appeal, so you open a ticket and wait (not forever, longest is max 3 days based on local regulations), but the customer MUST reply within this timeframe. If removal occurs after removal the customer has a right to appeal, if the customer appeals you have to relay it to the copyright holder, and if there's a legal recourse within 14 days since reply, the appeal is void. Of course this is moderated by Terms of Service and the requirements may be stricter or addressed on a one-to-one basis.
    The exclusions provided by the local laws in ANY EU COUNTRY are typically the same or worse than in Hungary where we reside (we have 3 day window, NL is 2 days, DE - 24 hours).
    We use our automated legally approved and tested with time system for abuse handling and all of our customers are happy (including large well-known VPNs and hosters), while we operate within Safe-harbour provisions of all three relevant laws - E-Commerce Act, DSA and Copyright Directive.

    P.S.: I don't want to be rude and point fingers, I had little time to check, but your service compliance does not seem to be in order with EU at all so I don't understand why you try to explain EU law in this case. SLaPPs are not profitable in EU so getting a lawsuit means horrible violation of either fundamental laws or breach of Terms.

    Thanked by 1tentor
  • dotjsondotjson Member

    @ServerAstra said: Cloudflare will send IP to hoster, and if copyright holder insists - to them too.

    @avsisp said: If the report includes enough information to positivity identify that the file is hosted directly on our servers (a VPS client), I think we'd probably forward it to them.

    This is only somewhat related, but I'd appreciate any insights you two could offer.

    I've received DMCA warning emails from Cloudflare about claimed copyrighted works that were NOT technically available on my site or stored on my server at all. My site was instead providing only links to these files stored on an external file host (Rapidgator).

    In this situation, how would your services handle receiving a complaint like this? The complaints in these cases were always filed by an India-based company that specializes in mass filing copyright complaints. I never actually heard from my host in these cases, but removed the pages mentioned in the email from Cloudflare as a precaution.

    How is the copyright holder filing the complaint deemed to be legit before sending them my IP?

  • tentortentor Member, Host Rep

    @dotjson said:
    I've received DMCA warning emails from Cloudflare about claimed copyrighted works that were NOT technically available on my site or stored on my server at all. My site was instead providing only links to these files stored on an external file host (Rapidgator).

    https://torrentfreak.com/unknowingly-linking-to-infringing-content-is-still-infringement-court-rules-161210/

  • vinhaisvinhais Member

    99% of providers who ignore the DMCA will kick you off their $30 VPS after the first notification from their lawyers. Under no circumstances will the legal costs, and potential criminal charges against the owners, justify keeping such a client.

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