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Honestly.
Jar is gone.
The damage has already been done towards all three parties.
There are details we will never know of or understand.
Any form of moderation will either still not take place or well after (unless even more horribad stuff gets brought up).
I dunno about you guys but I've made my thoughts clear and I know I can't contribute further. Rather sleep and focus more on my internal BGP setup than this thread unless something extremely substantial gets revealed that could mean my thoughts changed.
I've been here two years and have way many more posts than you do on LET 🤣
Just so that others don't keep thinking that I have any vested interest here, a few minutes after the attack sale was created, I stopped being bothered by it and laughed it off. I don't consider myself to be a victim or to have suffered any damage, and I have no desire to try to get back at jar.
lol, fixed
also honestly @jbiloh is a great role model for how to respond when people come after you, we all know I don't agree with him on a lot of stuff but damn he doesn't let bullshit get under his skin
If having more posts means you understand the community, you'd know that dragging out drama just to try and 'cancel' someone is exactly what people mean by attention-seeking. But hey, enjoy the stats 🤣
Whilst you had the least involvement. You're still involved and I still have my opinion on you and as you recall it ain't particularly positive.
You're not escaping my extremely broad definition of damage here.
s/got into/started/;
s/with/and relentlessly pursued/;
And then followed that up with another sustained attack there after Jar laughed it off and others defended him.
Which given the context wasn't actually a terrible assessment.
Which, it wasn't, let's not forget. And he actually demanded their entire account was immediately terminated, and tried to get the payment processor to suspend them at all.
I think he'll be back
Sure, but there's nothing I can do about that. A few people on a forum thinking that I have it out for jar does not damage me.
More optimistic than me.
Delighted if proven wrong and Jar does come back.
We have different definitions of "relentlessly pursue". I consider following someone, who was throwing punches back, mind you, into one thread to be anything but relentless pursuit.
thanks @emgh thats why i choose you for professional legal representation
You can have your opinion of forest and that can be fine but I am not sure what you think how he should respond to you saying "I don't have a positive opinion on you"
He has tried to be respectful and actually agrees with you. You are free to have your opinion on him but I feel like its just continuing the discussion for the sake of discussion my friend if we just continue this circle discussion
Good luck with your bgp thing that you were doing! Keep me updated and have a nice day!
8.2. The Customer is obligated not to publish any content that infringes on the rights of third parties or otherwise violates applicable law. This includes in particular, but is not limited to, pornographic or obscene material, extremist content or content that offends common decency, gambling, material that could seriously endanger the morals of children or young people or violate the rights of third parties (copyrights, name rights, trademark rights and data protection rights). This also includes the publication of defamatory content, insults or disparagement of persons or groups of persons.
https://www.hetzner.com/legal/terms-and-conditions/
It started because, when I was brand new to LET, I was very wishy-washy in the VeloxMedia thread because I didn't want a rather expensive VPS to be terminated and was thrown head-first into first-class drama. Thankfully the VPS is still running, but apparently it hurt my reputation in some people's view.
And you should have stopped your harassment well before the point that made him feel that you were exhibiting psychotic behaviour.
This was a fight that you started, you don't get a special pass when you pick on someone who fights back.
Wow, we really are starting to see a pattern here: you don't like someone's opinion, so you think you can try to whip it into a PR storm to destroy their business.
At this point, you've been criticizing WyvernCo far more harshly and persistently than he was criticizing jar, and for far longer. By your own logic, doesn't that mean you're engaging in sustained harassment?
If WyvernCo then used his company to publicize a product called "ralf_is_a_gullible_bastard", wouldn't you feel angry at that, especially if you tried to contact mods and they did nothing?
No one is 100% in the right here, but you're treating Wyvern as if he's this psychopathic monster who followed jar while he desperately tried to flee these relentless, brutal, and unprovoked attacks.
thanks
No, criticism in a discussion forum in the relevant threads does NOT constitute harassment. This is a hill I'll die on. I know you are determined to make me into the bad guy for criticizing your hero, but he did shitty things and I was well within my rights to criticize him for it in the two threads where I did so.
As a provider/business, what are some lessons that they can learn: @emgh suggests having a PR representative who can be cool-headed (iirc), I suppose I feel the same. All of this drama could've been prevented if jar had some cool-headed PR
Does anyone else have some genuine business lessons to learn from all of this, I would like to learn something new/meaningful from this conflict/drama hopefully.
do you see how you both use this as justification and that that's also why this got to where we're at and why it can't stop until one of you decides that it isn't worth it?
Sheesh...
Everyone has made their points.
No one is going to change anyone's opinion.
The damage has been done.
Let it lie.....
Guilty before proven innocent?
There hasn't been a single incident that would give any credence to the accusations you are making about him. You don't have any basis in fact for them, but you continue to keep reposting this baseless accusation to try to discredit him. Why?
He's doubling down on Reddit? Really? That post was started by your vindictive buddy @WyvernCo and from what I can see, there is only has a single comment from jar. The only person doubling down is @WyvernCo, who, let's not forget, was the person who started this whole conflict.
Isn't that exactly what you are doing by making assertions about his state of mind? You've already decided that you know who is in the right, and are acting as if any disagreement is intentional provocation.
You aren't arguing in good faith. I'm going to disengage.
Honestly, I don't really care that much about that. He can make whatever demands he wants, it doesn't really mean anything.
I don't know the full context of the aftermath, but if they took action, then they determined that it was, in fact, a violation of their terms of service in some way.
If they didn't take action, then... so what? Nothing happened.
Yes and no.
I do recognize the infinite escalation of two hard-headed people colliding with one another.
However, I also think it was Jar that repeatedly crossed the red lines of indefensible behavior (attack sale, doxxing, firing attempt). Meanwhile, I have complete confidence that my actions were ethical and justified and Jar had every opportunity to avoid them by not engaging in scummy behaviors like those.
Coming from you, that is a bit rich.
Publicity rights? Nobody even knows who TF you are (given that you say the information shared earlier wasn't you), how can you claim that?
And if you go down the libel/defamation route, not only will it be costly for legal fees, you can expect all the posts from you that were removed would be resurfaced by subpoena, and then people would actually be able to see what led to him to make that claim.
But the evidence shows that everything he's done has been retaliatory. If you don't want a fight, it's very simple - just stop stirring the shit and get on with your life.
So why do you keep pushing him to the point where he might feel that's the only way to get you to stop harassing him?
What threats?
What's done is done, and what needed to be said has already been said, and yes, we're just going in circles.
In my personal opinion, if both parties feel their actions were justified, that's their choice - they are responsible for the outcomes/consequences that follow.
As for the rest of us, I'm sure we all have our own take on what went down, so let's just take a breather to cool off and stop using this to pick on one another, exploit our disagreements and fuel further arguments.
Sorry.