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I still don't get it. Why does this guy insist on messing with PM even when he knows PM didn't get the money
is this normal in india? sorry if you guys feel this like a racist
and i think hosthatch is right, deal offer has low level support
Yes, but that's not how you determine your market rate though, is it?
As the owner of the business, the money you are paying yourself is a bigger chunk of the profit of the company than you'd get paid doing the same work for someone else.
As I said, "your time is worth what someone else is willing to pay for it, not what you put into the accounts of your own company".
But anyway, the point remains. Spending 6 hours of your life and a ton on money on AI tokens rather than just writing off the cost of refunding the €0.66 is stupid.
It is close, funny you ask that; I was working on our DNS cluster today, updating it and making decisions on the path.
I was supposed to be spend this Workcation in Magicland (Thaimaa, Finnish Taikamaa --> Magicland. Taika = Magic in finnish, Maa = Counry) to build nodeCore -- the MD platform automation. I winded up building Väinämöinen.
Soon we catch up the maintenance debt and i get to build nodeCore. The irony is, i do this right, i envision nodeCore to be built in 4-5x of 14hr of days.
We already got PMSS software stack fully closed development start to finish, i keep getting surprised of new features and patches myself. Today, i first time enabled the same for Väinämöinen, it is literally self evolving as we speak. It has backlog of 300 investigated issue to work on, with limit of 48 issues produced per day. Either a magnificent success, or exciting and dramatic failure 🤣🤣 Either way, excitement guaranteed. I just need to remember to share the story, but there literally is too f* much to share for me to vet before release. Moltbook also has many Väinämöinen stories: https://www.moltbook.com/u/PulsedMedia_Vainamoinen
We got an engineer designing us customer controller PCB, mControl for the mPlate right now, after that we can enter mass production as the local system's integrator is then able to build them; No adhoc wiring harness builds anymore, no scattered PCBs to ddouble side taping together.
I may have picked a little bit too much to engineer as one person. ...Oh well
Loaning you:
But anyway, the point remains. Spending 6 hours of your life and a ton on money on AI tokens rather than just writing off the cost of refunding the €0.66 is stupid.
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Maybe its a good Idea to cap A.I usage for a ticket/customer at a certain point where human labour is cheaper.
???
Tldr; don't be a dick *
With Finnish taxes ... That cap is extremely high.
That's the whole point; https://pulsedmedia.com/blog/2026/02/vainamoinen-autonomous-ai-sysadmin-transformed-support-costs-with-91-autonomy/
Since Tomi got the golden recruit from Nokia, out of school travel around the world, his own multihead team, budget in 7 millions to run his own team .... I have not been able to find anyone to replace him. It's cool shit he is working on, in his first 6 month they won 1M $ Prize from a competition/tech exhibition in UAE.
The maths ain't mathing, junior pay for senior expert skill level.
how do you manage to write so much but not answer a 7 word question
To prepare for the next thread on how he lost €1600 by spending 10 hours replying to our posts.
Mr. Aleksi is in many ways are similar to my Finnish-Swede friend who happened to have ADHD problem
Asked him boring stuff, you will get short response. Drop the right kind of words, and He will write few paragraphs at 200wpm.
I don't think it's bad. Normally it's called enthusiasm
I don't believe this, no way.
I think its about time someone wrote a plugin or a module to convert PM to openai api endpoint equivalent so that we can use AI for free.
Seriously, you fucked up, admit it. I hope you learnt your lesson on why you shouldn't use AI for support tickets and your so called "investigations".
The other way of looking at it is that the customer tried creating a ticket, got nothing but word slop from an AI agent that didn't address his problem, got no response to his comment on the relevant offer thread and so created his own thread, and replied to comments there.
Yes, the customer was ultimately wrong, because it was his own mistake for not checking the spam folder, but it was hardly "spamming forums". Also, if he was using the provider's standard checkout process, and paid the amount it requested, it doesn't seem unreasonable to get upset when it demands more money and support is just AI slop that doesn't provide anything useful to help diagnose the issue.
It was only after the customer created his thread here that the provider could be bothered to have a human look at the support ticket.
ID10T error.
You have a good culture of improvement through experience.
Have you considered using a free LLM for your agent, like from Nvidia NIM or Openrouter?
I thought the lesson learnt was: DO NOT ACCEPT CREEP-TO! Disappointed...
I agree, however... He ordered the server on a thread where the host was explicitly advertising his ai support if I'm not mistaken
That person was spamming this forum. It became very annoying, with many posts on the mainthread and even a dedicated thread after everyone told him to leave.
The issue at hand wasn't because of pulsedmedia is using AI support.
I don't perfectly recall, but at some point he was asking the human to contact coinpayment, then coinpayment to allbridge. At the moment of thread creation, he said his money is currently at allbridge. So, it's already out of scope of pulsedmedia.
_
We, human have blindspot. But, he attempt to resolve the problem while in the state of panic. Which is very counterproductive to the optimal solution: just chill and trace the instruction from the system. Turn the machine off and on again, reboot the modem, search the inbox
And he finally realized it's on his spam folder after 7 days.
hey @whynotlearn here, at first reading the headline, I felt really sad because obviously I didn't intend for anyone to lose magnitudes more but I feel there's more nuance to it than the headline presented as I read it more and more.
Thanks for saying this @PulsedMedia , now with that in mind, I wish to say a few things. My friend, The question to me feels like, the way you have framed this message, do you feel like it was my fault that I had sent an ticket which led to the AI bot going beserek, or was it a fault within the way it might've been configured which led to this costs. I feel like there might be somethings to learn about a business trying to use AI chatbot costing them more money than the consumer, more than anything. The irony is that the AI is writing this post (:
Also, I had asked either I want my server or refund, there could've been a simple refund to me of 11$/ buying a server if there were no faults within the system and I was happy. I just wanted a resolution of something, and when I had gotten the resolve, I tried to donate to charity because more than anything, to me, I felt like this thing can happen to me in 100$ as it can happen in 10$ and it wasn't about the money so much thus the donation to orphanage.
it shows that LLM's cant be trusted and the human aspect of customer support. (Also The reason why I didn't eventually buy the servers is that I just donated the money to charity and I still had 60 cents less within the chain and at that point, it wasn't worth it.)
No, to be more accurate, I learnt to not FOMO about buying things that I might not need or things I would be impatient of.
I feel like the lesson for all providers is to not use LLM generated support if it can make 200$ API costs? I am sure some people might like AI text but within times of panic as I was during that time, those messages led me to making another ticket which led to the AI going berserk without proper measures. Its glad that this whole scenario atleast bought some proper safety guards but the framing within this feels very click-baity which combined multiple things which happened.
I wish for you to have a nice day Alexii, I know that hosting is hard and I hope that you realize that I had no hard feelings then, and no hard feelings now. Have a nice day.
(Edit: If people say wall of text, my friend, I have to respond to someone if they have written a thread to me, also, @PulsedMedia I think that the tldr is to not use AI/LLM's for support, the way I see it. I hope we can have a meaningful discussion towards it.)
Also thank you for doing this.
@PulsedMedia you mention that you are unable to find customer support within finland within this field and the reason you used AI.
I feel like using AI was one of the things that led me to panic (I felt unheard) and your customers might feel the same way if you continue in using AI and it will be net negative for everybody
Let's make this interesting. I am currently in high school, if you can help me join an College in finland or atleast within EU so that I can then join an Finnish college for comp-sci and just give me enough salary to live barely (I am frugal :]), then I will be your customer-support. I am asking for the bare minimum plus just a few dollars more. I would be happy if I can make 20k-30k euros per year. (perhaps I can be an EU citizen and it can help reduce my tuition fees and I am just asking for my tuition fees/food/bare rent + 10 dollars xD)
So if you eventually hire me after giving me interview, subtract the 1000 euros that I costed you from my first year salary (even if the math isn't mathing there in some occasion)
Once again, I don't dislike Pulsedmedia, I hope that you might know that too, I was just panicked, Now @PulsedMedia (Alexii) Let me know what you're interested in an assistant/customer-support and the topics that I should be more familiar with (I am familiar with networking, sandboxing and virtual machines like [firecracker (just a little)],gvisor,incus/qemu,docker etc. from some tinkering I have done)
Time to replace the jobs of AI !! (On a serious note, if I can join EU colleges and have a part time job of working customer-support for a LET provider, this whole drama would actually be so much more wholesome for me and give a wholesome twist to all of this!)
Frankly, I find it embarrassing that @PulsedMedia needed all those expenses, time, and ai to find out what every reasonable and properly thinking grandma would understand right away: you can't provide half-way decent support and make a profit on a very, even extremely low margin super-cheap product. Simple.
Plus, how do those two fit together?
and
$12/year means basically no support at all beyond "[whatever] doesn't work" that is, NO hand-holding, NO explanations but simply "look at our KB", and certainly NO investigations of payments other than "has been paid in full" or "has not been paid in full", no matter the reasons and details.
Which btw is also a major reason why I don't buy such extremely cheap products anymore. I want minimal and reasonable, preferably non-ai, support and I want the provider to not bleed money providing that.
And certainly no long, really long and detailed posts, not even by ai (costs $$).
The OP could - and should - have been much shorter. "OP finally learned and grasped business 101" would have done the trick.
Kudos though (and only) for striving to be transparent and fair.
Could you elaborate? A deeper explanation would be useful, more details please
Dying because of its own success
I just spent 2 billion in AI costs to type this reply. Please write another thread about that. Thanks.
I think both parties were ultimately at fault. It's on the host to verify that their email has a low spam score or, if it doesn't, to remind the customer to check spam. It's also on the host not to get stuck in the sunk cost fallacy and end up burning through money making the RAM crisis worse talking to hallucinating clankers.
Edit: Just re-read the slopwall and saw it was the payment gateway's email that went to spam, not the host's email. So there are three parties at fault, not just two. Regardless, the "fault" is very minor. Not checking a spam folder is not a major sin. It's the decision to burn over a thousand dollars for a few cents that is really notable.
tl;dr
I think more than that, AI makes one feel unheard and angry even more (atleast personally), a lot of this could've just been prevented if an human could've even just said hi/basic customer service (not-even-tech-related). It's just bad at giving customer-support in general while being more expensive in these off-chance cases. I just don't think this is the way.
The last 3 words I want to hear during support is "I hear you --" personally. Because it feels the greatest irony to me that a machine says I hear you when it doesn't but by taking on the entire corpus of text (by training on the entire internet without asking for anyone's permission, raising ramflation in process, AI Bubble etc.), is able to pretend to do so.
The provider is slowly learning that delegating everything to AI does not actually improve productivity the way he thought it would.
Before I go to sleep, I just wish to say, To be fair, I kinda understand @PulsedMedia too even if I might have some disagreements with them. A lot of AI companies have been pushing for customer-support etc. so they might've been just a bit unaware of the pit-holes it has, and they mention that having human-support is hard for them, but I hope that they might learn this lesson (sadly the hard way, once again I myself am unsure how my tickets caused their AI to panic so bad, they were literally just 2-3 messages), I hope that they take a deeper reflection and get human-support and I wish them the very best for future.
I genuinely hope they learn to NOT use AI from all of this, their post's last lines seems to have indicated otherwise which is a bit sad to see. It's not all black & white, the AI wants to paint such picture but there's nuance its failing to capture, just as it failed to help me and proceeded to cost Alexii 200 euros. (I hope nobody sends any hate to @PulsedMedia because what's the point of hurting one of our members/providers of own community? we are all similar than different, passion wise.)
A bit of minor problem I feel like I have is that the post feels a bit too similar to the famous hit-piece article I am sure many people might know. This feels a bit too personal to me attacking-me, I hope its AI not alexii.
There are some real problems in world and instead of fixing them we are all just band-aiding it ineffectively which worsens the problem even more.