Best email host?

Comments

• Ssre Member

  February 26

  @forest said:
  Lmao he made a promo titled "WyvernCo_and_forest_are_psycho". I've never seen a provider get so mad so fast when being quoted and acting so childish. This is kind of beautiful. Plus, I get a cheap promo email out of it.

  Make sure you hide your trustpilot page

  Thanked by 2forest JasonM
• JosephF Member

  February 26

  @forest said:

  @jar said:
  A foreign entity cannot simply claim jurisdiction over another country. That has to be obtained by treaty or war. This is grade school stuff, it's embarrassing how few people understand this.

  Indeed, and it is enforced by treaty.

  https://gdpr.eu/compliance-checklist-us-companies/

  You may be wondering how the European Union will enforce a law in territory it does not control. The fact is, foreign governments help other countries enforce their laws through mutual assistance treaties and other mechanisms all the time. GDPR Article 50 addresses this question directly. So far, the EU’s reach has not been tested, but no doubt data protection authorities are exploring their options on a case-by-case basis.

  So it may be unlikely that they could collect, and they certainly wouldn't test the EU's reach on a small mail host, but it does mean that not obeying the GDPR for EU customers is technically in violation of laws with extraterritorial jurisdiction.

  The EU has no treaty with the US to enforce the GPDR. US authorities have not, do not, and will not assist the EU in enforcing any GPDR fines or other GPDR matters.

  Thanked by 1jar
• JosephF Member

  February 26 edited February 26

  @WyvernCo said:

  @JosephF said:

  @forest said:

  @JosephF said: Unless the US company has a presence in the EU, the US company is not subject to the jurisdiction of the GPDR.

  I thought they are subject to it if they have EU customers.

  Nope. Not if the company has no EU presence.

  For extra-territorial, they can also just put a garnishment order on the payment networks and force the fees to be paid out of future sales from that jurisdiction

  Not if the payment networks are US based serving US customers.

  US courts will not enforce GPDR judgements. And US payment networks cannot seize funds from US companies without a US court judgement.
• forest Member

  February 26

  @JosephF said:

  @forest said:

  @jar said:
  A foreign entity cannot simply claim jurisdiction over another country. That has to be obtained by treaty or war. This is grade school stuff, it's embarrassing how few people understand this.

  Indeed, and it is enforced by treaty.

  https://gdpr.eu/compliance-checklist-us-companies/

  You may be wondering how the European Union will enforce a law in territory it does not control. The fact is, foreign governments help other countries enforce their laws through mutual assistance treaties and other mechanisms all the time. GDPR Article 50 addresses this question directly. So far, the EU’s reach has not been tested, but no doubt data protection authorities are exploring their options on a case-by-case basis.

  So it may be unlikely that they could collect, and they certainly wouldn't test the EU's reach on a small mail host, but it does mean that not obeying the GDPR for EU customers is technically in violation of laws with extraterritorial jurisdiction.

  The EU has no treaty with the US to enforce the GPDR. US authorities have not, do not, and will not assist the EU in enforcing any GPDR fines or other GPDR matters.

  Ah, then it looks like it could only be done via pressure on payment providers.
• JosephF Member

  February 26

  @forest said:

  @JosephF said:

  @forest said:

  @jar said:
  A foreign entity cannot simply claim jurisdiction over another country. That has to be obtained by treaty or war. This is grade school stuff, it's embarrassing how few people understand this.

  Indeed, and it is enforced by treaty.

  https://gdpr.eu/compliance-checklist-us-companies/

  You may be wondering how the European Union will enforce a law in territory it does not control. The fact is, foreign governments help other countries enforce their laws through mutual assistance treaties and other mechanisms all the time. GDPR Article 50 addresses this question directly. So far, the EU’s reach has not been tested, but no doubt data protection authorities are exploring their options on a case-by-case basis.

  So it may be unlikely that they could collect, and they certainly wouldn't test the EU's reach on a small mail host, but it does mean that not obeying the GDPR for EU customers is technically in violation of laws with extraterritorial jurisdiction.

  The EU has no treaty with the US to enforce the GPDR. US authorities have not, do not, and will not assist the EU in enforcing any GPDR fines or other GPDR matters.

  Ah, then it looks like it could only be done via pressure on payment providers.

  Not if the payment networks are US based serving US customers.

  US courts will not enforce GPDR judgements. And US payment networks cannot seize funds from US companies without a US court judgement.
• JosephF Member

  February 26 edited February 26

  Clearview AI ignored the EU and the GPDR. And they never paid the fines issued against them by the EU for GPDR violations.
• Ssre Member

  February 26 edited February 26

  @JosephF said:
  Clearview AI ignored the EU and the GPDR. And they never paid the fines issued against them by the EU for GPDR violations.

  TBF, Clearview situation is a bit different as they don't have any EU customers and aren't accepting any payments from EU banks.

  If a US business was actively accepting EU customers, then it's possible some sanctions could happen, eg something like site blocking or more likely, putting pressure on card issuers, payment processors, etc, to prevent the company from continuing business in the EU.
• JosephF Member

  February 26 edited February 26

  @Ssre said:

  @JosephF said:
  Clearview AI ignored the EU and the GPDR. And they never paid the fines issued against them by the EU for GPDR violations.

  TBF, Clearview situation is a bit different as they don't have any EU customers and aren't accepting any payments from EU banks.

  If a US business was actively accepting EU customers, then it's more than possible some sanctions could happen, eg something like site blocking or putting pressure on card issuers, payment processors, etc.

  As long as the company is using US card issuers, payment processors, etc. (and has no EU presence), the EU is impotent against US companies (unless they obtain a US court order, which they legally cannot.)
• Ssre Member

  February 26

  @JosephF said:
  As long as the company is using US card issuers, payment processors, etc. (and has no EU presence), the EU is impotent against US companies (unless they obtain a US court order, which they legally cannot.)

  There's nothing stopping them from making it much more difficult for them to do business in the EU, by preventing banks, card issuers, and payment processors from continuning to accept payments on their behalf.

  I agree that once the money is in the US, then it can't be touched, but that isn't what I'm suggesting. I edited my post before you replied to make this clearer.
• forest Member

  February 26

  @Ssre said:

  @forest said:
  Lmao he made a promo titled "WyvernCo_and_forest_are_psycho". I've never seen a provider get so mad so fast when being quoted and acting so childish. This is kind of beautiful. Plus, I get a cheap promo email out of it.

  Make sure you hide your trustpilot page

  There's a neat trick you can do. If you post a bad review and the owner flags it, TrustPilot will ask you to send them your personal info which they'll hand over to the business. If you don't want the business to know who you are, just wait for a few days until TrustPilot auto-removes your review. Then respond with photos of your receipt (which they won't send to the business), and they'll restore your review and verify it.

  Thanked by 3WyvernCo jar tdwuk
• angstrom Moderator

  February 26 edited February 26

  Everyone,

  Wow, please settle down

  it's also kind of hard to expect volunteer mods/admins to jump into a snake pit

  Speaking for myself, I simply don't know enough about what happened earlier (outside of LET), and I suspect that other mods/admins are in the same boat

  I'm closing this thread because it has been massively derailed

  Just to say that based on past comments on LET and elsewhere, MXroute have many-many satisfied customers (in the thousands, no doubt), but yes -- also no doubt -- the satisfaction rate isn't 100%

  To what extent the dissatisfied customers are justified in their criticisms would be difficult for mods/admins to judge without extensive research and fact-checking (especially when a lot of what happened took place outside of LET)

  Thread closed

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