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HDD Brand - Toshiba

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Comments

  • jsgjsg Member, Resident Benchmarker
    edited February 18

    @rpqu said:
    I would say that my experience with Toshiba brand is a mix. The refrigerator is still running for 20 years, yet the laptop doesn't last 4 years. And because of word of mouth, I just avoid using Toshiba HDD whenever possible.
    As for SSD (and other type of flash storage), I only trust samsung ( some SSD/NVME SKUs/series) and sandisk (SD, micro SD card, thumb drive, etc v30 minimum).

    Well, I must have been on the unlucky side then, as two of my Samsung SSDs (one QLC, one TLC) died even within the warranty period. Never touched Samsung SSDs again. I replaced them with "no name" SSDs (SLC) which reliably run ever since.
    I learned the lesson "quality counts, not brand name" the hard way.

    And yes, I guess Samsung SSDs once were really good, but then the inevitable (with large corp.) happened ("why produce quality when customers buy the brand name?"). And hell it works! The money cows, uhm ... the "valued customers" not only accept QLC crap but even celebrate the marketing fairy tales ...

    Thanked by 1host_c
  • host_chost_c Patron Provider, Top Host, Megathread Squad

    @jsg said: Well, I must have been on the unlucky side then, as two of my Samsung SSDs (one TLC, one TLC) died even within the warranty period. Never touched Samsung SSDs again. I replaced them with "no name" SSDs (SLC) which those reliably run.

    Same here on the consumer line of Samsung.

    Yet, on the PCI-EX AIC cards, that is a different storry breed.

    Intel wear out faster then Samsung, at least in our case.
    The intel PCI-EX cards "dyed" faster and more frequent then the Samsung based ones.

    But on the consumer line, I will not touch Samsung Ever Again, ah yes, the Samsung QVO SSD line = trash,

    We have No Name SSD like OPtimX or Ridata ( 100% aliba-china) that are used in DVR's on trucks ( you cannot put a HDD there, it will be dead in 30 minutes ) that work for over 3 years now, the Samsung dyed within 6-8 moths of continuous write.

    Yet again, right tool for the right job.

    Thanked by 2jsg rpqu
  • forestforest Member
    edited February 18

    @jsg said: As NVMe was mentioned: just stay away from QLC SSDs! If you search, with some luck you might even find MLC SSDs.

    Just set an NVMe namespace small enough that it will stay in MLC (or even pSLC) mode, and only use that. That will significantly improve endurance. And, of course, remember to TRIM periodically!

    Thanked by 1jsg
  • As someone working in the industry, yes, Toshiba drives are good. Especially the MG09 and MG11 series.

    If you don't want to spend too much time studying the HDD make and models, one quick rule is to avoid small ( < 6TB) Seagate drives and large ( > 20 TB) WD drives. Also avoid any HAMR drives if you want to use at home.

    Toshiba drives are in general all-rounders and are well qualified in the big datacenters.

  • FranciscoFrancisco Top Host, Host Rep, Veteran

    Do you seriously think Toshiba is going to just continue on and not hit the same sold out status? That's silly.

    Things are completely and utterly fucked.

    Francisco

  • rpqurpqu Member
    edited February 19

    @jsg said:
    Well, I must have been on the unlucky side then, as two of my Samsung SSDs (one QLC, one TLC) died even within the warranty period. Never touched Samsung SSDs again. I replaced them with "no name" SSDs (SLC) which reliably run ever since.
    I learned the lesson "quality counts, not brand name" the hard way.

    And yes, I guess Samsung SSDs once were really good, but then the inevitable (with large corp.) happened ("why produce quality when customers buy the brand name?"). And hell it works! The money cows, uhm ... the "valued customers" not only accept QLC crap but even celebrate the marketing fairy tales ...

    QLC never. Just stick to TLC for higher capacity, SLC for reliability, and ramdisk for freedom™.
    I find better pull rate on silicon gacha on sales booth held at conventions. For example, Sandisk SSD and SD cards I purchased from decade ago still works, although the zip drive died within 3 years.

    @host_c said:
    Same here on the consumer line of Samsung.
    Yet, on the PCI-EX AIC cards, that is a different storry breed.
    Intel wear out faster then Samsung, at least in our case.
    The intel PCI-EX cards "dyed" faster and more frequent then the Samsung based ones.

    🙂‍↕ 👍

    But on the consumer line, I will not touch Samsung Ever Again, ah yes, the Samsung QVO SSD line = trash,
    We have No Name SSD like OPtimX or Ridata ( 100% aliba-china) that are used in DVR's on trucks ( you cannot put a HDD there, it will be dead in 30 minutes ) that work for over 3 years now, the Samsung dyed within 6-8 moths of continuous write.
    Yet again, right tool for the right job.

    High endurance flash are expensive because of their intended purpose> @dedipromo said:

    As someone working in the industry, yes, Toshiba drives are good. Especially the MG09 and MG11 series.

    If you don't want to spend too much time studying the HDD make and models, one quick rule is to avoid small ( < 6TB) Seagate drives and large ( > 20 TB) WD drives. Also avoid any HAMR drives if you want to use at home.
    Toshiba drives are in general all-rounders and are well qualified in the big datacenters.

    Thanks for the thought and reminder.

    @Francisco said:
    Do you seriously think Toshiba is going to just continue on and not hit the same sold out status? That's silly.
    Things are completely and utterly fucked.
    Francisco

    It's going to be sold out or low in stock. But, it's still available, unlike WD, Seagate

    Edit:
    My usual vendor is soldout on Seagate. Now considering Toshiba MG, WD Purple pro (8,10,12,14,18,20T) & Red (10,12T) pro.
    And HGST ultrastar quote is 60-80% more expensive than Toshiba MG.

    Thanked by 1jsg
  • rpqurpqu Member
    edited February 20

    Update on purchased disks (incl. Tax)

    • 1XTB WD Red Pro at ~$28/TB
    • 1XTB Toshiba NEARLINE ~$30/TB (price hike 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭)
    • 1XTB Toshiba N300 Pro ~$26.5/TB

    Currently looking for best quote on S300/Skyhawk/Purple series.
    It feels shitty paying the premium. But it will arrive on Monday
    @Francisco @host_c

    Thanked by 1host_c
  • qpsqps Member, Host Rep

    We've had a bunch of 1TB, 2TB, 3TB, and 4TB (and larger sizes too) from the enterprise/data center SKUs that mostly just keep working. Failure levels are low. Quite a few 1TB/2TB/3TB from the consumer line that are very good as well.

    Avoid the NAS line. They have been less reliable than most other models. The 4TB and 8TB sizes (multiple models) seem particularly bad.

    Overall, I would rank them

    1) WD/HGST
    2) Toshiba
    3) Seagate

  • forestforest Member
    edited February 21

    @rpqu said: QLC never. Just stick to TLC for higher capacity, SLC for reliability, and ramdisk for freedom™.

    Sadly, you're never going to find genuine SLC outside of low-capacity, high-endurance embedded applications in the form of 2 GB "industrial" SD cards for $50. Everything marketed as SLC is pSLC, which is just MLC or up configured to store only a single bit per cell. That improves reliability, but it's nothing like "real" SLC. This is because pSLC:

    • Often uses a higher voltage than SLC (even if the firmware is in SLC mode, the charge pump is designed for MLC)
    • Has a thinner (and thus more fragile) tunnel oxide layer to support finer charge discrimination when in MLC mode
    • Has longer P/E cycles than SLC (according to here, think >1 ms vs 200 μs program and >4 ms vs 1 ms erase)
    • Suffers trade-offs in the doping process and gate geometry intended for MLC that are probably not ideal for endurance

    Really all that pSLC gives you is a much wider voltage margin between discrete states, so it can tolerate a lot more oxide degradation from repeated Fowler-Nordheim tunneling before Vt is altered so much that cells are misread badly enough that even ECC cannot correct it. But true SLC will always be better, since 100,000+ P/E cycles per cell is nice. :)

    Thanked by 2david rpqu
  • rpqurpqu Member
    edited February 21

    @qps said:
    We've had a bunch of 1TB, 2TB, 3TB, and 4TB (and larger sizes too) from the enterprise/data center SKUs that mostly just keep working. Failure levels are low. Quite a few 1TB/2TB/3TB from the consumer line that are very good as well.

    I bought several consumer external HDD (1-4TB) on early 2010s, and I'm not disappointed with them, since they're still running when I plugged them in. By mid 2010s, I don't purchase the consumer grade (WD blue, especially green, and externals) anymore since the corpo start putting failed drives.

    Avoid the NAS line. They have been less reliable than most other models. The 4TB and 8TB sizes (multiple models) seem particularly bad.

    Because they start putting SMR crap?

    @forest said:

    @rpqu said: QLC never. Just stick to TLC for higher capacity, SLC for reliability, and ramdisk for freedom™.

    Sadly, you're never going to find genuine SLC outside of low-capacity, high-endurance embedded applications in the form of 2 GB "industrial" SD cards for $50. Everything marketed as SLC is pSLC, which is just MLC or up configured to store only a single bit per cell. That improves reliability, but it's nothing like "real" SLC. This is because pSLC:

    Well, it costs me $600 for 30GB. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  • edited February 21

    @deafcon said:

    @default said:
    If there will be no SSDs and HDDs available, we might have to return to CDs or even floppy disks.

    I legit looked up what the most data dense BluRay available is the other day...

    If someone has a link to reasonably priced Toshiba's, or any or brand, I'd appreciate it.

    It's too bad the optical disk technology line stopped at the BluRay. It was competitive at the time but by now it's a lot worse than hard drives, even when they're expensive. I wonder if they made new optical disks with ultraviolet lasers and 8 layers or something they could get several hundred GB per disk, that would make them decent again for archival.

    BluRay maxes out about 50GB so a $50 2TB hard drive matches price and capacity of a stack of 40 disks, but it's smaller, rewritable and doesn't need you to change disks.

  • @OpaqueRegistrant said:

    @deafcon said:

    @default said:
    If there will be no SSDs and HDDs available, we might have to return to CDs or even floppy disks.

    I legit looked up what the most data dense BluRay available is the other day...

    If someone has a link to reasonably priced Toshiba's, or any or brand, I'd appreciate it.

    It's too bad the optical disk technology line stopped at the BluRay. It was competitive at the time but by now it's a lot worse than hard drives, even when they're expensive. I wonder if they made new optical disks with ultraviolet lasers and 8 layers or something they could get several hundred GB per disk, that would make them decent again for archival.

    BluRay maxes out about 50GB so a $50 2TB hard drive matches price and capacity of a stack of 40 disks, but it's smaller, rewritable and doesn't need you to change disks.

    Sadly BluRay is not a solution for large volumes of data.

  • I've 6x Toshiba MG08 Series ,16TB running since 2021 without any issues, expect around 250MB / s from them.

  • host_chost_c Patron Provider, Top Host, Megathread Squad

    @default said: Sadly BluRay is not a solution for large volumes of data.

    Tape Drives are, and last for 20+ years ( unless it meets a magnet :D ). Bit slow for my taste. :) :D

  • qpsqps Member, Host Rep

    @rpqu said: Because they start putting SMR crap?

    No, all of the drives are CMR.

  • rpqurpqu Member

    @host_c said:
    Tape Drives are, and last for 20+ years ( unless it meets a magnet :D ). Bit slow for my taste. :) :D

    I've considered using LTO as the final defense, but the r/w system pric pushed me away. I wish there's LET host that's willing to let consumer purchased LTOs and charged only for data transfer and retrieval.

    @qps said:

    No, all of the drives are CMR.

    So, mechanical failures. Despite 4-6TB aren't the cheapest option if measured by TB.

    @Homwer said](/discussion/comment/4736459/#Comment_4736459):
    I've 6x Toshiba MG08 Series ,16TB running since 2021 without any issues, expect around 250MB / s from them.

    Thank you

  • I had used toshiba HDD drive on my laptop for many years without any problem.

    Recently I changed to nvme. Just avoid cheap China brand products, as I've bought 2 or 3 usb drives, none of them are fast or reliable, nothing but trash.

  • host_chost_c Patron Provider, Top Host, Megathread Squad
    edited February 21

    @rpqu said: I've considered using LTO as the final defense, but the r/w system pric pushed me away. I wish there's LET host that's willing to let consumer purchased LTOs and charged only for data transfer and retrieval.

    That would be extremely difficult to do if one does not own the DC, as tape drives are not something that can be "automated" per customer. Someone needs to phisically put the tape drive into the unit. There are auto loaders, yet, they do not work like tape1=john, tape2=jenny, tape3= sue...... :D

    @rpqu said: I bought several consumer external HDD (1-4TB) on early 2010s, and I'm not disappointed with them, since they're still running when I plugged them in. By mid 2010s, I don't purchase the consumer grade (WD blue, especially green, and externals) anymore since the corpo start putting failed drives.

    This is true, most of the external drives if you read the SMART status via a PC, will be FAILED drives.

    There is a reason sometimes an external drive with case is cheaper then the internal standard drive.

  • rpqurpqu Member

    @host_c said:
    That would be extremely difficult to do if one does not own the DC, as tape drives are not something that can be "automated" per customer. Someone needs to phisically put the tape drive into the unit. There are auto loaders, yet, they do not work like tape1=john, tape2=jenny, tape3= sue...... :D

    I know, that's why I expect pricing like €20/retrieval request since a human need to find the tape (in someone's basement) and load it. Then, $0.1/TB of transferred data.

    This is true, most of the external drives if you read the SMART status via a PC, will be FAILED drives.

    There is a reason sometimes an external drive with case is cheaper then the internal standard drive.

    I think the legend said, it was surplus drives put on those externals. Then, they start putting failed drives
    Crazy

    Thanked by 1BasToTheMax
  • @host_c said: There is a reason sometimes an external drive with case is cheaper then the internal standard drive.

    They're typically binned products that failed QA, so they are derated and sold as cheap, slow external drives with garbage reliability.

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