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How I upgraded my workstation, and why I chose that route
First why at all. Simple, (as I now know) my mainboard died, btw in a weird way that was hard to analyze and looked like a broken PSU but that was not the problem.
Also I'm (almost) not a gamer and I don't care about frame rates, etc., and in a GPU I'm interested, if at all, for only 2 reasons, (a) crypto code (not as in "currency"/"money" but as in cryptographic algorithms and code), and (b) for (coding) experiments.
Which processor I chose and why:
I had an 8-core Ryzen 4000 APU (CPU + "GPU" built in) - and I was perfectly happy with it as in I felt no need at all for more computing power. Which btw. is an astonishing and unexpected experience after decades of feeling that the CPU feels sluggish at least more than occasionally.
And I chose its successor, a Ryzen 5000 APU, again with 8 cores. The main factors were:
- a newer architecture/generation, Zen 3
- but still with DDR4
- relatively cheap (ca. $ 150)
Btw. the GPU capabilities of the Ryzen APU is plenty good enough for me.
Why not a more modern one like a Ryzen 9000?
- because the cost vs. performance ratio brutally drops the higher you go. 20% more performance for 300+% the price just isn't attractive.
- I simply didn't need more performance. Sure 10% more performance (Ryzen 4k to 5k) is nice but I can't remember a single occurrence of me thinking "Meeh, it could/should be faster", anyway not related to the processor.
Why did I stick with the memory I had (DDR4)?
Simple reason: to get even somewhat, i.e. not utterly insignificant, better performance they make your wallet bleed. Or in other words, memory nowadays basically is a hype show and all - and pretty much only - about marketing. Hint, and fun fact: running my 3200 DDR4 as 3000 "only" but with significantly lower cycles (15-15-15-36 vs. 18-18-18-38) is actually faster!
Let me elaborate:
Contrary to what many (probably most) believe, DDR chips do NOT run at GHz speeds, not even close. In fact the fastest speed I know of (DDR5-7200) runs at less than 500 MHz! Which btw is less than 5 times the speed of "stone-age" DDR "1".
The real (main) reasons memory is much faster nowadays (over multiple generations of DDR) is (a) much faster bus speed (mainly due to "triggering" on both clock edges) and (much) a wider bus (today typ. 8 bytes). BUT: again, the chip speed itself hasn't increased that much, hence "cycles" that is, you tell the memory that you intend to read from some location, then the chip "prepares" for that operation, and then only the data can actually be read (or written). The "3200" or "5000" number basically is largely just marketing blabla. Yes, you can get a bandwidth of say a bit over 50 GB/s with DDR5-6400 but (a) you'll pay about double the price (of DDR4 3200), and (b) can expect ugly surprises (like the last cycle number about 100).
So, all in all I feel fine to continue using my DDR4 3200. Oh and just btw: THE most important factor in performance is on-die (CPU) caches anyway (not even processor performance). L1 and L2 are king and L3 already is more of a pain killer (making RAM access more bearable).
Also because unless you are heavily gaming, and probably even then, the one element that tends to be slowing down a system is disk as in, in particular, NVMe vs SATA (let alone HDD). So I made sure (already long ago) to have two NVMes (and 4 lanes) for both. My only "weak point" (but well bearable) is that one of them still is PCIe 3.
That said I still also have and use 2 SSDs as well as 2 HDDs, the SSDs mainly for (less important/infrequently used) VMs and the HDDs for massive storage, backup buffer (later written out to my backup store). In other words: I'm not betting on insanely large NVMes (2 TB is plenty enough) but rather on a (hopefully) smart concept along the line of how frequently and intensely something is used plus how important safety is; for my work (and a bit of other really important stuff) I use Raid10'd volumes, for the rest a good drive plus backing up is good enough.
Side note: I'm baffled and, with PC cases even appalled, how shallow, idiotic, and mindlessly "fun" oriented many, in fact most it seems, people seem to have become. It's in fact hard to find a good quality and well designed PC case without glass nowadays. Also pretty much everything that didn't run away quickly enough has RGB lighting, even memory sticks!
In other words: real engineers go home - welcome in the idiocracy!
Comments
How do you know if it is doing anything if you can't see it happening?
I'm not even sure that the idiotic RGB lighting actually is indicating activity like reads from /writes to the RAM.
As for your question: we had ways to know that ("is the RAM actively used?") before even without any lighting, plus mainboards often so have a few diag LEDS one of which tends to be "RAM OK" - or not.
Good job buddy
The newer Radeon integrated graphics are pretty good. I had to RMA my normal Radeon GPU and had to use the 610M that's in the 7945HX and it was able to play most common games 1440p 30+, with two monitors. Come a long way.
Interesting read, thank you for sharing this!
Idk about others, but Ryzen's been really great (almost 10 years with different Ryzen builds), with no issues and way better value for the money, unlike team blue.
I hate glass on cases. I see so many posts on social media where there's a pile of broken glass. A lot of time people put their towers on the floor and kicking them, bumping into them, etc. is too easy.
If someone wants to bling out their case, fine, party on, whatever. But it does not appeal to me. I don't need my computer to look like My Little Pony at a rave.
This.. I'm so pissed off by these new taste of designs. Got my PC re-assembled this summer and I had to pay extra for NOT having RGB light polution on my RAM sticks and graphics cards. Not to mention the glass cases - terrible not only in terms of apperance and ease of use, but also terrible at heat dissipation. I thought I was probably too old for the tech world. Glad to know that I'm not the only one who doesn't like those
@raindog308 & @dedipromo
Yep, yet another case (no pun intended) of "fun" and "feeling" counts, not facts, usability, and quality.
AFAIC a case must be functional (e.g. as in no ridiculous BS like max PSU length 160mm (a bout 6 1/3 inches), decent quality and ideally not ugly. After all a computer is a machine, a tool, and not bling.
That's why I said "real engineers go home - welcome in the idiocracy!"
I also had to upgrade this year, also because motherboard died.
I was unable to find a modern (ie USB 3.0 and USB-C ports) PC case without glass, so I had to settle for the most plain one I could find. First thing I did was figure out how to turn off all the LED lighting. Damnit, my mouse even has LED lights.
For the non-RGB chassis lovers, ever looked at Silverstone and Fractal Design offerings?
I did look at Fractal here. Nice but too expensive for me.
lol same here, can't find any cheap alternatives with USB3 ports and good build quality, had to settle with montech air x again with glass and Arr Gee Bee :shrug:
What about these? 10€ for the cases and 99¢ shipping during the Black Friday week. They don't look bad. But I found mine abandoned by a dumpster years ago, free apart from the bummer of having to carry it.
You can get a case with glass unless it's too heavy or fragile for you. My workstation has RGB. It's not plugged in.
I really like Fractal Design cases. We use them exclusively in the office, when building custom PCs.
I'm considering a Lian Li case (with glass at least only on the left side) but otherwise ideal - plus I can currently get it for about €100 delivered. IMO that's a good choice because the way I place my workstation is left side away from me and close to the wall, but the quality is good and so is functionality (e.g. with drive trays which for some weird reason isn't common anymore nowadays).
My work PC accidentally has lots of RGB crap inside. The GPU and RAM are all equipped with RGB and I never figured out how to turn it off. I've mostly solved the problem by hiding the PC under the desk.
However, when I was in Shenzhen a couple of weeks ago, I saw the newest ASUS CPU coolers and they're actually very cool. They have an actual LCD screen on the CPU and as well as status, you can even run a video player on it!
https://www.amazon.co.uk/ROG-Ryuo-SLC-360-ARGB/dp/B0FBS34BVN
You can thank me later.
FYI, on the internet, there are websites where you can read and obtain knowledge before opening your mouth and spewing shit. Here's one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDR5_SDRAM
Sucks to live where you live. In Canada, the old Ryzen 5000 stuff is higher price than the 7000/9000 gear at less performance. So that 20% performance for 300%+ cost you mentioned is mental.
(emphasis mine)
"Funny" side note: All I needed to do to disable the RGB BS circus was to simply not plug in the ARGB cables/plugs. For RAM I don't know because all my memory sticks are - cheaper btw - plain versions, but AFAIK every halfway decent mainboard & BIOS allows to disable the RGB nonsense.
TL;DR they ripped you off.
I'm still proud that none of my PC fans have any lights on them.
Addendum: chip-set, mainboard format
Everybody and their dog seem to consider X570 to be the best chip-set for that generation, yet I chose to "stay" (buy again) with B550 but switched from ATX to MicroATX (B550M).
Reasons:
My former (and now broken) mainboard was full ATX ... with most PCIe slots empty.
I wanted to put the case on the desk rather than under it, and I wanted it to be smaller (max height about 40 cm) but wider (mainly for better/easier cable management).
The only extension card I use and need is a 10 Gb/s Mellanox 8 lanes card.
Re disadvantages of B550 and advantages of X570:
The X570 advantage probably important/decisive for most (who buy it) is that both NVMe slots are PCIe v4 x 4 (lanes), as opposed to B550 which only offer one v4 x 4 slot, the second one is only v3 and, depending on the specific mainboard often with only 2 lanes, plus if used at all, either the lower (also v3) PCIe x 16 (mechanical, x8 electrical) or 2 or even 4 SATA ports aren't available (with my mainboard but similar with others).
That seems to drive many towards the X570 - which however also seems to have a kink; it seems (according to testing) to run SATA disks slower than the B550.
Whatever for me/my use case the B550, which also is significantly cheaper btw, was the right choice as I use only 4 (of 6 avail.) SATA ports, have the Mellanox card in the lower PCIe v3 x slot and put my 2nd NVMe simply in a "carrier"/adapter card in the upper v4 x 16 PCIe slot.
When using internal graphics, the m.2 slot from the CPU is only PCIe 3.0. You will see this listed under your motherboard specifications. It's standard when using APU's, it uses x8 lanes from the PCIe.
That's not an issue I'm aware of. They'll be SATA3 protocol for both.
Your Mellanox card is x4 and not x8 or x16? That's not typical. A quick Google search is only showing me pics of x8 and x16 cards.
You need to swap the cards so you get x8 and x4 PCIe lanes. Save money on a PCIe 3 NVMe instead of PCIe 4.
Now, if you went with Ryzen 7000/9000, you'd still have PCIe4 lanes with a better APU and USB4 ports.
You should reach out to websites that can help sort this shit out for you before buying next time, saving you time and money. Single generation upgrades are generally not worth it, go with 3 or more to get value and performance.