Prepaid hosting and deposits that can't be refunded

barbaros · November 2025

@24fire why do you use Shisha place as office?

Bluey · November 2025

@zed said: I'm impressed you guys have trusted law firms AND accountants. Very unusual in these parts.

How many page of this thread had been people pasting LLM paragraph ?

tux · November 2025

Many people there use the GPT as virtual law firm.

gbzret4d · November 2025

@24fire said:
To clarify our view of the matter and hopefully conclude this issue on a positive note:

Vito and I reached an agreement yesterday via our support system. Both automatic PayPal payments from the past months have been fully refunded, and he has confirmed receipt. The remaining ~€18 in his account is from a previous server order that was refunded as a credit by our system when he returned the instance earlier. This credit cannot simply be “refunded again” because it is technically and accounting-wise linked to the previous invoice cancellation. To reverse this, additional tax adjustments and rebookings by our accountant would be required—which would cost significantly more than the remaining amount itself.

In practice, we have therefore taken the same approach that other hosts here (such as Layer7) have described earlier in this thread:
When a service is purchased and then canceled, and the system issues an internal credit, that credit is no longer a direct “deposit” but part of the internal booking logic. A manual cancellation would incur higher administrative and tax costs than the actual amount is worth.

However, the matter was resolved amicably.
We are pleased that we were finally able to get the matter resolved with Vito – and consider the case closed.

Sorry, but it's entirely your responsibility to manage your internal processes.

xvps · November 2025

@24fire said:
To clarify our view of the matter and hopefully conclude this issue on a positive note:

Vito and I reached an agreement yesterday via our support system. Both automatic PayPal payments from the past months have been fully refunded, and he has confirmed receipt. The remaining ~€18 in his account is from a previous server order that was refunded as a credit by our system when he returned the instance earlier. This credit cannot simply be “refunded again” because it is technically and accounting-wise linked to the previous invoice cancellation. To reverse this, additional tax adjustments and rebookings by our accountant would be required—which would cost significantly more than the remaining amount itself.

Damn, you are immature and naive.

Your expenses are your own problem, and that’s not an excuse for ignoring the law, nor does it give you the right to scam your customers.

You’re a classic example of a business owner who drags their own company down, damaging their reputation by trying to squeeze a profit out of every single transaction.

Business owners with even a little between their ears are capable of spreading their expenses across all their sales.

🚩 24fire.de is a scammer.

3K33 · November 2025

@xvps said:

@24fire said:
To clarify our view of the matter and hopefully conclude this issue on a positive note:

Vito and I reached an agreement yesterday via our support system. Both automatic PayPal payments from the past months have been fully refunded, and he has confirmed receipt. The remaining ~€18 in his account is from a previous server order that was refunded as a credit by our system when he returned the instance earlier. This credit cannot simply be “refunded again” because it is technically and accounting-wise linked to the previous invoice cancellation. To reverse this, additional tax adjustments and rebookings by our accountant would be required—which would cost significantly more than the remaining amount itself.

Damn, you are immature and naive.

Your expenses are your own problem, and that’s not an excuse for ignoring the law, nor does it give you the right to scam your customers.

You’re a classic example of a business owner who drags their own company down, damaging their reputation by trying to squeeze a profit out of every single transaction.

Business owners with even a little between their ears are capable of spreading their expenses across all their sales.

🚩 24fire.de is a scammer.

I can assure you that none of the LET providers will refund you your credits

xvps · November 2025

@3K33 said:

@xvps said:

@24fire said:
To clarify our view of the matter and hopefully conclude this issue on a positive note:

Vito and I reached an agreement yesterday via our support system. Both automatic PayPal payments from the past months have been fully refunded, and he has confirmed receipt. The remaining ~€18 in his account is from a previous server order that was refunded as a credit by our system when he returned the instance earlier. This credit cannot simply be “refunded again” because it is technically and accounting-wise linked to the previous invoice cancellation. To reverse this, additional tax adjustments and rebookings by our accountant would be required—which would cost significantly more than the remaining amount itself.

Damn, you are immature and naive.

Your expenses are your own problem, and that’s not an excuse for ignoring the law, nor does it give you the right to scam your customers.

You’re a classic example of a business owner who drags their own company down, damaging their reputation by trying to squeeze a profit out of every single transaction.

Business owners with even a little between their ears are capable of spreading their expenses across all their sales.

🚩 24fire.de is a scammer.

I can assure you that none of the LET providers will refund you your credits

Thanks, for letting us know you are a scammer.

3K33 · November 2025

@xvps said:

@3K33 said:

@xvps said:

@24fire said:
To clarify our view of the matter and hopefully conclude this issue on a positive note:

Vito and I reached an agreement yesterday via our support system. Both automatic PayPal payments from the past months have been fully refunded, and he has confirmed receipt. The remaining ~€18 in his account is from a previous server order that was refunded as a credit by our system when he returned the instance earlier. This credit cannot simply be “refunded again” because it is technically and accounting-wise linked to the previous invoice cancellation. To reverse this, additional tax adjustments and rebookings by our accountant would be required—which would cost significantly more than the remaining amount itself.

Damn, you are immature and naive.

Your expenses are your own problem, and that’s not an excuse for ignoring the law, nor does it give you the right to scam your customers.

You’re a classic example of a business owner who drags their own company down, damaging their reputation by trying to squeeze a profit out of every single transaction.

Business owners with even a little between their ears are capable of spreading their expenses across all their sales.

🚩 24fire.de is a scammer.

I can assure you that none of the LET providers will refund you your credits

Thanks, for letting us know you are a scammer.

First, German law does not apply to me, as we are operating from Poland and this is perfectly legal and it works like this with many big and small companies.

Second, i do not sell credits directly and only give it as promotional bonusses or as refunds for services which are not refundable even under German law.

Third, income to a company is selling the credits (this the point where you should give an invoice), selling a service is not an income then but fullfilling contractual obligations.

However, my statement is still valid and no one will refund your credits.

mans_xd · November 2025

@3K33 said:

@xvps said:

@24fire said:
To clarify our view of the matter and hopefully conclude this issue on a positive note:

Vito and I reached an agreement yesterday via our support system. Both automatic PayPal payments from the past months have been fully refunded, and he has confirmed receipt. The remaining ~€18 in his account is from a previous server order that was refunded as a credit by our system when he returned the instance earlier. This credit cannot simply be “refunded again” because it is technically and accounting-wise linked to the previous invoice cancellation. To reverse this, additional tax adjustments and rebookings by our accountant would be required—which would cost significantly more than the remaining amount itself.

Damn, you are immature and naive.

Your expenses are your own problem, and that’s not an excuse for ignoring the law, nor does it give you the right to scam your customers.

You’re a classic example of a business owner who drags their own company down, damaging their reputation by trying to squeeze a profit out of every single transaction.

Business owners with even a little between their ears are capable of spreading their expenses across all their sales.

🚩 24fire.de is a scammer.

I can assure you that none of the LET providers will refund you your credits

thank you for your comment

for collecting money for nonsense

Best regards

Levi · November 2025

@3K33 said:

@xvps said:

@24fire said:
To clarify our view of the matter and hopefully conclude this issue on a positive note:

Vito and I reached an agreement yesterday via our support system. Both automatic PayPal payments from the past months have been fully refunded, and he has confirmed receipt. The remaining ~€18 in his account is from a previous server order that was refunded as a credit by our system when he returned the instance earlier. This credit cannot simply be “refunded again” because it is technically and accounting-wise linked to the previous invoice cancellation. To reverse this, additional tax adjustments and rebookings by our accountant would be required—which would cost significantly more than the remaining amount itself.

Damn, you are immature and naive.

Your expenses are your own problem, and that’s not an excuse for ignoring the law, nor does it give you the right to scam your customers.

You’re a classic example of a business owner who drags their own company down, damaging their reputation by trying to squeeze a profit out of every single transaction.

Business owners with even a little between their ears are capable of spreading their expenses across all their sales.

🚩 24fire.de is a scammer.

I can assure you that none of the LET providers will refund you your credits

They will, when chargeback arrives. P.s. paypal forbids to do “top ups”. Report that to paypal and they will suspend account.

xvps · November 2025

@3K33 said:

@xvps said:

@3K33 said:

@xvps said:

@24fire said:
To clarify our view of the matter and hopefully conclude this issue on a positive note:

Vito and I reached an agreement yesterday via our support system. Both automatic PayPal payments from the past months have been fully refunded, and he has confirmed receipt. The remaining ~€18 in his account is from a previous server order that was refunded as a credit by our system when he returned the instance earlier. This credit cannot simply be “refunded again” because it is technically and accounting-wise linked to the previous invoice cancellation. To reverse this, additional tax adjustments and rebookings by our accountant would be required—which would cost significantly more than the remaining amount itself.

Damn, you are immature and naive.

Your expenses are your own problem, and that’s not an excuse for ignoring the law, nor does it give you the right to scam your customers.

You’re a classic example of a business owner who drags their own company down, damaging their reputation by trying to squeeze a profit out of every single transaction.

Business owners with even a little between their ears are capable of spreading their expenses across all their sales.

🚩 24fire.de is a scammer.

I can assure you that none of the LET providers will refund you your credits

Thanks, for letting us know you are a scammer.

First, German law does not apply to me, as we are operating from Poland and this is perfectly legal and it works like this with many big and small companies.

Second, i do not sell credits directly and only give it as promotional bonusses or as refunds for services which are not refundable even under German law.

Third, income to a company is selling the credits (this the point where you should give an invoice), selling a service is not an income then but fullfilling contractual obligations.

However, my statement is still valid and no one will refund your credits.

I get refunds regularly from several providers without any issues, and I’m pretty sure all of them would say it’s not up to you to dictate how they run their business. They’d most likely prefer if you stopped claiming that they’re breaking the law.

mans_xd · November 2025

@Levi said:

@3K33 said:

@xvps said:

@24fire said:
To clarify our view of the matter and hopefully conclude this issue on a positive note:

Vito and I reached an agreement yesterday via our support system. Both automatic PayPal payments from the past months have been fully refunded, and he has confirmed receipt. The remaining ~€18 in his account is from a previous server order that was refunded as a credit by our system when he returned the instance earlier. This credit cannot simply be “refunded again” because it is technically and accounting-wise linked to the previous invoice cancellation. To reverse this, additional tax adjustments and rebookings by our accountant would be required—which would cost significantly more than the remaining amount itself.

Damn, you are immature and naive.

Your expenses are your own problem, and that’s not an excuse for ignoring the law, nor does it give you the right to scam your customers.

You’re a classic example of a business owner who drags their own company down, damaging their reputation by trying to squeeze a profit out of every single transaction.

Business owners with even a little between their ears are capable of spreading their expenses across all their sales.

🚩 24fire.de is a scammer.

I can assure you that none of the LET providers will refund you your credits

They will, when chargeback arrives. P.s. paypal forbids to do “top ups”. Report that to paypal and they will suspend account.

i got a point from your comment never pay by my debit card or crypto with collecting hosting provider

paypal is easy and good for dispute and it will make sure to leave problem even if you not get your money back

3K33 · November 2025

@xvps said:

@3K33 said:

@xvps said:

@3K33 said:

@xvps said:

@24fire said:
To clarify our view of the matter and hopefully conclude this issue on a positive note:

Vito and I reached an agreement yesterday via our support system. Both automatic PayPal payments from the past months have been fully refunded, and he has confirmed receipt. The remaining ~€18 in his account is from a previous server order that was refunded as a credit by our system when he returned the instance earlier. This credit cannot simply be “refunded again” because it is technically and accounting-wise linked to the previous invoice cancellation. To reverse this, additional tax adjustments and rebookings by our accountant would be required—which would cost significantly more than the remaining amount itself.

Damn, you are immature and naive.

Your expenses are your own problem, and that’s not an excuse for ignoring the law, nor does it give you the right to scam your customers.

You’re a classic example of a business owner who drags their own company down, damaging their reputation by trying to squeeze a profit out of every single transaction.

Business owners with even a little between their ears are capable of spreading their expenses across all their sales.

🚩 24fire.de is a scammer.

I can assure you that none of the LET providers will refund you your credits

Thanks, for letting us know you are a scammer.

First, German law does not apply to me, as we are operating from Poland and this is perfectly legal and it works like this with many big and small companies.

Second, i do not sell credits directly and only give it as promotional bonusses or as refunds for services which are not refundable even under German law.

Third, income to a company is selling the credits (this the point where you should give an invoice), selling a service is not an income then but fullfilling contractual obligations.

However, my statement is still valid and no one will refund your credits.

I get refunds regularly from several providers without any issues, and I’m pretty sure all of them would say it’s not up to you to dictate how they run their business. They’d most likely prefer if you stopped claiming that they’re breaking the law.

Such as? I have used a lot of providers not even from hosting related activities and never managed to get a refund from credits. But hey, im not in Germany and im not sure how the laws work there. Also the OP’s case might be different.

mans_xd · November 2025

@3K33 said:

@xvps said:

@3K33 said:

@xvps said:

@3K33 said:

@xvps said:

@24fire said:
To clarify our view of the matter and hopefully conclude this issue on a positive note:

Vito and I reached an agreement yesterday via our support system. Both automatic PayPal payments from the past months have been fully refunded, and he has confirmed receipt. The remaining ~€18 in his account is from a previous server order that was refunded as a credit by our system when he returned the instance earlier. This credit cannot simply be “refunded again” because it is technically and accounting-wise linked to the previous invoice cancellation. To reverse this, additional tax adjustments and rebookings by our accountant would be required—which would cost significantly more than the remaining amount itself.

Damn, you are immature and naive.

Your expenses are your own problem, and that’s not an excuse for ignoring the law, nor does it give you the right to scam your customers.

You’re a classic example of a business owner who drags their own company down, damaging their reputation by trying to squeeze a profit out of every single transaction.

Business owners with even a little between their ears are capable of spreading their expenses across all their sales.

🚩 24fire.de is a scammer.

I can assure you that none of the LET providers will refund you your credits

Thanks, for letting us know you are a scammer.

First, German law does not apply to me, as we are operating from Poland and this is perfectly legal and it works like this with many big and small companies.

Second, i do not sell credits directly and only give it as promotional bonusses or as refunds for services which are not refundable even under German law.

Third, income to a company is selling the credits (this the point where you should give an invoice), selling a service is not an income then but fullfilling contractual obligations.

However, my statement is still valid and no one will refund your credits.

I get refunds regularly from several providers without any issues, and I’m pretty sure all of them would say it’s not up to you to dictate how they run their business. They’d most likely prefer if you stopped claiming that they’re breaking the law.

Such as? I have used a lot of providers not even from hosting related activities and never managed to get a refund from credits. But hey, im not in Germany and im not sure how the laws work there. Also the OP’s case might be different.

you keep calling germany for and low etc
man did you read full thread before Judge?

can you see layer7 comments?
pretty sure he wants a business not collecting money

sure he not provide 7$/y vps

3K33 · November 2025

@mans_xd said:

@3K33 said:

@xvps said:

@3K33 said:

@xvps said:

@3K33 said:

@xvps said:

@24fire said:
To clarify our view of the matter and hopefully conclude this issue on a positive note:

Vito and I reached an agreement yesterday via our support system. Both automatic PayPal payments from the past months have been fully refunded, and he has confirmed receipt. The remaining ~€18 in his account is from a previous server order that was refunded as a credit by our system when he returned the instance earlier. This credit cannot simply be “refunded again” because it is technically and accounting-wise linked to the previous invoice cancellation. To reverse this, additional tax adjustments and rebookings by our accountant would be required—which would cost significantly more than the remaining amount itself.

Damn, you are immature and naive.

Your expenses are your own problem, and that’s not an excuse for ignoring the law, nor does it give you the right to scam your customers.

You’re a classic example of a business owner who drags their own company down, damaging their reputation by trying to squeeze a profit out of every single transaction.

Business owners with even a little between their ears are capable of spreading their expenses across all their sales.

🚩 24fire.de is a scammer.

I can assure you that none of the LET providers will refund you your credits

Thanks, for letting us know you are a scammer.

First, German law does not apply to me, as we are operating from Poland and this is perfectly legal and it works like this with many big and small companies.

Second, i do not sell credits directly and only give it as promotional bonusses or as refunds for services which are not refundable even under German law.

Third, income to a company is selling the credits (this the point where you should give an invoice), selling a service is not an income then but fullfilling contractual obligations.

However, my statement is still valid and no one will refund your credits.

I get refunds regularly from several providers without any issues, and I’m pretty sure all of them would say it’s not up to you to dictate how they run their business. They’d most likely prefer if you stopped claiming that they’re breaking the law.

Such as? I have used a lot of providers not even from hosting related activities and never managed to get a refund from credits. But hey, im not in Germany and im not sure how the laws work there. Also the OP’s case might be different.

you keep calling germany for and low etc
man did you read full thread before Judge?

can you see layer7 comments?
pretty sure he wants a business not collecting money

sure he not provide 7$/y vps

Im just sharing my perspective and opinion about this issue. Both layer7 and 24fire are incoporated in Germany and this whole thread is based on their law.

mans_xd · November 2025

@3K33 said:

@mans_xd said:

@3K33 said:

@xvps said:

@3K33 said:

@xvps said:

@3K33 said:

@xvps said:

@24fire said:
To clarify our view of the matter and hopefully conclude this issue on a positive note:

Vito and I reached an agreement yesterday via our support system. Both automatic PayPal payments from the past months have been fully refunded, and he has confirmed receipt. The remaining ~€18 in his account is from a previous server order that was refunded as a credit by our system when he returned the instance earlier. This credit cannot simply be “refunded again” because it is technically and accounting-wise linked to the previous invoice cancellation. To reverse this, additional tax adjustments and rebookings by our accountant would be required—which would cost significantly more than the remaining amount itself.

Damn, you are immature and naive.

Your expenses are your own problem, and that’s not an excuse for ignoring the law, nor does it give you the right to scam your customers.

You’re a classic example of a business owner who drags their own company down, damaging their reputation by trying to squeeze a profit out of every single transaction.

Business owners with even a little between their ears are capable of spreading their expenses across all their sales.

🚩 24fire.de is a scammer.

I can assure you that none of the LET providers will refund you your credits

Thanks, for letting us know you are a scammer.

First, German law does not apply to me, as we are operating from Poland and this is perfectly legal and it works like this with many big and small companies.

Second, i do not sell credits directly and only give it as promotional bonusses or as refunds for services which are not refundable even under German law.

Third, income to a company is selling the credits (this the point where you should give an invoice), selling a service is not an income then but fullfilling contractual obligations.

However, my statement is still valid and no one will refund your credits.

I get refunds regularly from several providers without any issues, and I’m pretty sure all of them would say it’s not up to you to dictate how they run their business. They’d most likely prefer if you stopped claiming that they’re breaking the law.

Such as? I have used a lot of providers not even from hosting related activities and never managed to get a refund from credits. But hey, im not in Germany and im not sure how the laws work there. Also the OP’s case might be different.

you keep calling germany for and low etc
man did you read full thread before Judge?

can you see layer7 comments?
pretty sure he wants a business not collecting money

sure he not provide 7$/y vps

Im just sharing my perspective and opinion about this issue. Both layer7 and 24fire are incoporated in Germany and this whole thread is based on their law.

okay they in same country but everyone with different situation and they same business did you get my point? i have already say that i get refund multiple times from layer7 and even it was my fault and he welcome that and refund me

and even layer7 give a long advice in business for 24fire

but you can say germany law and germany based company

in same threads both have different opinion for almost situation

again get what is my point?

it's not 7$/y to say nonrefundable

3K33 · November 2025

@mans_xd said:

@3K33 said:

@mans_xd said:

@3K33 said:

@xvps said:

@3K33 said:

@xvps said:

@3K33 said:

@xvps said:

@24fire said:
To clarify our view of the matter and hopefully conclude this issue on a positive note:

Vito and I reached an agreement yesterday via our support system. Both automatic PayPal payments from the past months have been fully refunded, and he has confirmed receipt. The remaining ~€18 in his account is from a previous server order that was refunded as a credit by our system when he returned the instance earlier. This credit cannot simply be “refunded again” because it is technically and accounting-wise linked to the previous invoice cancellation. To reverse this, additional tax adjustments and rebookings by our accountant would be required—which would cost significantly more than the remaining amount itself.

Damn, you are immature and naive.

Your expenses are your own problem, and that’s not an excuse for ignoring the law, nor does it give you the right to scam your customers.

You’re a classic example of a business owner who drags their own company down, damaging their reputation by trying to squeeze a profit out of every single transaction.

Business owners with even a little between their ears are capable of spreading their expenses across all their sales.

🚩 24fire.de is a scammer.

I can assure you that none of the LET providers will refund you your credits

Thanks, for letting us know you are a scammer.

First, German law does not apply to me, as we are operating from Poland and this is perfectly legal and it works like this with many big and small companies.

Second, i do not sell credits directly and only give it as promotional bonusses or as refunds for services which are not refundable even under German law.

Third, income to a company is selling the credits (this the point where you should give an invoice), selling a service is not an income then but fullfilling contractual obligations.

However, my statement is still valid and no one will refund your credits.

I get refunds regularly from several providers without any issues, and I’m pretty sure all of them would say it’s not up to you to dictate how they run their business. They’d most likely prefer if you stopped claiming that they’re breaking the law.

Such as? I have used a lot of providers not even from hosting related activities and never managed to get a refund from credits. But hey, im not in Germany and im not sure how the laws work there. Also the OP’s case might be different.

you keep calling germany for and low etc
man did you read full thread before Judge?

can you see layer7 comments?
pretty sure he wants a business not collecting money

sure he not provide 7$/y vps

Im just sharing my perspective and opinion about this issue. Both layer7 and 24fire are incoporated in Germany and this whole thread is based on their law.

okay they in same country but everyone with different situation and they same business did you get my point? i have already say that i get refund multiple times from layer7 and even it was my fault and he welcome that and refund me

and even layer7 give a long advice in business for 24fire

but you can say germany law and germany based company

in same threads both have different opinion for almost situation

again get what is my point?

it's not 7$/y to say nonrefundable

Of course, as I said before this varies case by case basis. And i understand that the OP’s issue was caused by PayPal Subscription (which have a notorious issues) and do not negate the fact that i would probably refund this too (i hate beeing charged on subscription based services). However i was stating the fact that if you preload your account, i can assure you that you will not get a refund for this preloaded credits. Unless provider gives you a hand, but they are not required to do so in many places

mans_xd · November 2025

@3K33 said:

@mans_xd said:

@3K33 said:

@mans_xd said:

@3K33 said:

@xvps said:

@3K33 said:

@xvps said:

@3K33 said:

@xvps said:

@24fire said:
To clarify our view of the matter and hopefully conclude this issue on a positive note:

Vito and I reached an agreement yesterday via our support system. Both automatic PayPal payments from the past months have been fully refunded, and he has confirmed receipt. The remaining ~€18 in his account is from a previous server order that was refunded as a credit by our system when he returned the instance earlier. This credit cannot simply be “refunded again” because it is technically and accounting-wise linked to the previous invoice cancellation. To reverse this, additional tax adjustments and rebookings by our accountant would be required—which would cost significantly more than the remaining amount itself.

Damn, you are immature and naive.

Your expenses are your own problem, and that’s not an excuse for ignoring the law, nor does it give you the right to scam your customers.

You’re a classic example of a business owner who drags their own company down, damaging their reputation by trying to squeeze a profit out of every single transaction.

Business owners with even a little between their ears are capable of spreading their expenses across all their sales.

🚩 24fire.de is a scammer.

I can assure you that none of the LET providers will refund you your credits

Thanks, for letting us know you are a scammer.

First, German law does not apply to me, as we are operating from Poland and this is perfectly legal and it works like this with many big and small companies.

Second, i do not sell credits directly and only give it as promotional bonusses or as refunds for services which are not refundable even under German law.

Third, income to a company is selling the credits (this the point where you should give an invoice), selling a service is not an income then but fullfilling contractual obligations.

However, my statement is still valid and no one will refund your credits.

I get refunds regularly from several providers without any issues, and I’m pretty sure all of them would say it’s not up to you to dictate how they run their business. They’d most likely prefer if you stopped claiming that they’re breaking the law.

Such as? I have used a lot of providers not even from hosting related activities and never managed to get a refund from credits. But hey, im not in Germany and im not sure how the laws work there. Also the OP’s case might be different.

you keep calling germany for and low etc
man did you read full thread before Judge?

can you see layer7 comments?
pretty sure he wants a business not collecting money

sure he not provide 7$/y vps

Im just sharing my perspective and opinion about this issue. Both layer7 and 24fire are incoporated in Germany and this whole thread is based on their law.

okay they in same country but everyone with different situation and they same business did you get my point? i have already say that i get refund multiple times from layer7 and even it was my fault and he welcome that and refund me

and even layer7 give a long advice in business for 24fire

but you can say germany law and germany based company

in same threads both have different opinion for almost situation

again get what is my point?

it's not 7$/y to say nonrefundable

Of course, as I said before this varies case by case basis. And i understand that the OP’s issue was caused by PayPal Subscription (which have a notorious issues) and do not negate the fact that i would probably refund this too (i hate beeing charged on subscription based services). However i was stating the fact that if you preload your account, i can assure you that you will not get a refund for this preloaded credits. Unless provider gives you a hand, but they are not required to do so in many places

okay you have point and talk from customer point and provider point

but reply from 24fire fire up the threads and that how everything gone

gbzret4d · November 2025

@3K33 said:

@mans_xd said:

@3K33 said:

@xvps said:

@3K33 said:

@xvps said:

@3K33 said:

@xvps said:

@24fire said:
To clarify our view of the matter and hopefully conclude this issue on a positive note:

Vito and I reached an agreement yesterday via our support system. Both automatic PayPal payments from the past months have been fully refunded, and he has confirmed receipt. The remaining ~€18 in his account is from a previous server order that was refunded as a credit by our system when he returned the instance earlier. This credit cannot simply be “refunded again” because it is technically and accounting-wise linked to the previous invoice cancellation. To reverse this, additional tax adjustments and rebookings by our accountant would be required—which would cost significantly more than the remaining amount itself.

Damn, you are immature and naive.

Your expenses are your own problem, and that’s not an excuse for ignoring the law, nor does it give you the right to scam your customers.

You’re a classic example of a business owner who drags their own company down, damaging their reputation by trying to squeeze a profit out of every single transaction.

Business owners with even a little between their ears are capable of spreading their expenses across all their sales.

🚩 24fire.de is a scammer.

I can assure you that none of the LET providers will refund you your credits

Thanks, for letting us know you are a scammer.

First, German law does not apply to me, as we are operating from Poland and this is perfectly legal and it works like this with many big and small companies.

Second, i do not sell credits directly and only give it as promotional bonusses or as refunds for services which are not refundable even under German law.

Third, income to a company is selling the credits (this the point where you should give an invoice), selling a service is not an income then but fullfilling contractual obligations.

However, my statement is still valid and no one will refund your credits.

I get refunds regularly from several providers without any issues, and I’m pretty sure all of them would say it’s not up to you to dictate how they run their business. They’d most likely prefer if you stopped claiming that they’re breaking the law.

Such as? I have used a lot of providers not even from hosting related activities and never managed to get a refund from credits. But hey, im not in Germany and im not sure how the laws work there. Also the OP’s case might be different.

you keep calling germany for and low etc
man did you read full thread before Judge?

can you see layer7 comments?
pretty sure he wants a business not collecting money

sure he not provide 7$/y vps

Im just sharing my perspective and opinion about this issue. Both layer7 and 24fire are incoporated in Germany and this whole thread is based on their law.

Poland is also member of the European union and those German laws are just national laws due to an eu regulation so it also applies to you.

@24fire should send the 18€ they hold back to @vitobotta too

zed · November 2025

@gbzret4d said: @24fire should send the 18€ they hold back to @vitobotta too

I think it's better if he keeps the 18 funnymoneys and this thread keeps going.

layer7 · November 2025

Hi,

if i understood it correctly, then this 18 EUR is:

"The remaining ~€18 in his account is from a previous server order that was refunded as a credit by our system when he returned the instance earlier. "

like @24fire wrote it.

So if i understand this correctly then the customer bought a service, used it - but not for the whole month - and the provider agreed to make a pro-rata refund out of good will i assume because the customer wanted to return it before the paid month ended.

IF this is really the case, then enforcing the provider to return this money too is actually not ok. I dont know anything about the circumstances but if a customer pays for the whole month and during the month the customer ask the provider to take it back because of why ever, then its purely being nice from the provider to accept it and make a partial refund.
And now paying back this kindness of the provider by trying to force him to return the cash weeks/months/what ever later, while this was most probably not the original deal, is morally as much not ok as providers keeping unused pre payments just like that...

vitobotta · November 2025

@layer7 said:
Hi,

if i understood it correctly, then this 18 EUR is:

"The remaining ~€18 in his account is from a previous server order that was refunded as a credit by our system when he returned the instance earlier. "

like @24fire wrote it.

So if i understand this correctly then the customer bought a service, used it - but not for the whole month - and the provider agreed to make a pro-rata refund out of good will i assume because the customer wanted to return it before the paid month ended.

IF this is really the case, then enforcing the provider to return this money too is actually not ok. I dont know anything about the circumstances but if a customer pays for the whole month and during the month the customer ask the provider to take it back because of why ever, then its purely being nice from the provider to accept it and make a partial refund.
And now paying back this kindness of the provider by trying to force him to return the cash weeks/months/what ever later, while this was most probably not the original deal, is morally as much not ok as providers keeping unused pre payments just like that...

I cancelled the server because of the same network performance issue I have with other German providers, including you - you might remember. I didn't ask for anything, and the prorated refund was automatic. I think the credit was added back to the account, but I didn't ask about that. I'm happy with the agreement we reached. At least I got most of it back.

layer7 · November 2025

@vitobotta said:
I cancelled the server because of the same network performance issue I have with other German providers, including you - you might remember. I didn't ask for anything, and the prorated refund was automatic. I think the credit was added back to the account, but I didn't ask about that. I'm happy with the agreement we reached. At least I got most of it back.

Hi,

ah i see. Haha another edge case

But if you are happy now i guess this thread fulfilled its purpose. Congratulations!

vitobotta · November 2025

@layer7 said:

@vitobotta said:
I cancelled the server because of the same network performance issue I have with other German providers, including you - you might remember. I didn't ask for anything, and the prorated refund was automatic. I think the credit was added back to the account, but I didn't ask about that. I'm happy with the agreement we reached. At least I got most of it back.

Hi,

ah i see. Haha another edge case

But if you are happy now i guess this thread fulfilled its purpose. Congratulations!

yeah I am happy, no need to discuss any further. I am not expecting @24fire to do anything else. We reached an agreement and that's the important thing

serverpoint · November 2025

From reading here, I guess most companies do not do any kind of refunds. I guess we've been doing it wrong all this time.

If a customer made a money deposit into our system (via paypal, credit card, etc) and they no longer want to use our services, we will refund the unused portion back to the original source. If the customer requests the money to be sent elsewhere, then our answer is an immediate no.

If you prepaid to get a better price, then we will simply recalculate the service you used as if you had been paying the regular monthly price and refund the rest.

hennaboy · November 2025

@vitobotta said:

@layer7 said:

@vitobotta said:
I cancelled the server because of the same network performance issue I have with other German providers, including you - you might remember. I didn't ask for anything, and the prorated refund was automatic. I think the credit was added back to the account, but I didn't ask about that. I'm happy with the agreement we reached. At least I got most of it back.

Hi,

ah i see. Haha another edge case

But if you are happy now i guess this thread fulfilled its purpose. Congratulations!

yeah I am happy, no need to discuss any further. I am not expecting @24fire to do anything else. We reached an agreement and that's the important thing

You should request this to be closed?

3K33 · November 2025

@gbzret4d said:

@3K33 said:

@mans_xd said:

@3K33 said:

@xvps said:

@3K33 said:

@xvps said:

@3K33 said:

@xvps said:

@24fire said:
To clarify our view of the matter and hopefully conclude this issue on a positive note:

Vito and I reached an agreement yesterday via our support system. Both automatic PayPal payments from the past months have been fully refunded, and he has confirmed receipt. The remaining ~€18 in his account is from a previous server order that was refunded as a credit by our system when he returned the instance earlier. This credit cannot simply be “refunded again” because it is technically and accounting-wise linked to the previous invoice cancellation. To reverse this, additional tax adjustments and rebookings by our accountant would be required—which would cost significantly more than the remaining amount itself.

Damn, you are immature and naive.

Your expenses are your own problem, and that’s not an excuse for ignoring the law, nor does it give you the right to scam your customers.

You’re a classic example of a business owner who drags their own company down, damaging their reputation by trying to squeeze a profit out of every single transaction.

Business owners with even a little between their ears are capable of spreading their expenses across all their sales.

🚩 24fire.de is a scammer.

I can assure you that none of the LET providers will refund you your credits

Thanks, for letting us know you are a scammer.

First, German law does not apply to me, as we are operating from Poland and this is perfectly legal and it works like this with many big and small companies.

Second, i do not sell credits directly and only give it as promotional bonusses or as refunds for services which are not refundable even under German law.

Third, income to a company is selling the credits (this the point where you should give an invoice), selling a service is not an income then but fullfilling contractual obligations.

However, my statement is still valid and no one will refund your credits.

I get refunds regularly from several providers without any issues, and I’m pretty sure all of them would say it’s not up to you to dictate how they run their business. They’d most likely prefer if you stopped claiming that they’re breaking the law.

Such as? I have used a lot of providers not even from hosting related activities and never managed to get a refund from credits. But hey, im not in Germany and im not sure how the laws work there. Also the OP’s case might be different.

you keep calling germany for and low etc
man did you read full thread before Judge?

can you see layer7 comments?
pretty sure he wants a business not collecting money

sure he not provide 7$/y vps

Im just sharing my perspective and opinion about this issue. Both layer7 and 24fire are incoporated in Germany and this whole thread is based on their law.

Poland is also member of the European union and those German laws are just national laws due to an eu regulation so it also applies to you.

@24fire should send the 18€ they hold back to @vitobotta too

As far as i understand the thread, the whole drama is based on one German Court Rulling. Therefore unless i have a German client who is a consumer this does not apply to me. There is thousands of store's and business in Poland operating this way (while i don't know any that actually refunds the credits) and there is no drama in Poland about that.

Edit:
And please, send me the exact law that states that, because maybe i am misunderstanding the problem. I'm happy to learn something along the way.

maverick · November 2025

@serverpoint said: From reading here, I guess most companies do not do any kind of refunds. I guess we've been doing it wrong all this time.

I beg to disagree. All companies that genuinely care about their customer satisfaction DO refunds, and do NOT complicate it. This is what actually separates the good from the bad providers, those that care, and those that care only about money. I'm afraid LET is choke full of both types, and it's not always easy to distinguish them.

And the refund policy could just be one more thing that helps, if a provider is very reluctant to refund, obviously it's more about money, and less about customer satisfaction, right?

@serverpoint said: If a customer made a money deposit into our system (via paypal, credit card, etc) and they no longer want to use our services, we will refund the unused portion back to the original source. If the customer requests the money to be sent elsewhere, then our answer is an immediate no.

I think it's the correct attitude, and keep up the good work!

@serverpoint said: If you prepaid to get a better price, then we will simply recalculate the service you used as if you had been paying the regular monthly price and refund the rest.

This is probably OK, but probably only if the refund is asked to be cashed back? Otherwise, if it's kept as a credit, why not just do a pro-rated refund to account credit and not complicate things? Dunno... long-term commitments are always complicated.

angstrom · November 2025

@vitobotta said:

@layer7 said:

@vitobotta said:
I cancelled the server because of the same network performance issue I have with other German providers, including you - you might remember. I didn't ask for anything, and the prorated refund was automatic. I think the credit was added back to the account, but I didn't ask about that. I'm happy with the agreement we reached. At least I got most of it back.

Hi,

ah i see. Haha another edge case

But if you are happy now i guess this thread fulfilled its purpose. Congratulations!

yeah I am happy, no need to discuss any further. I am not expecting @24fire to do anything else. We reached an agreement and that's the important thing

And with that -- also to prevent further unnecessary escalation -- I've closed this thread

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