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Why has cloudflare suddenly come to dominate captcha anti-bot/spam arena and don't you hate it?

2

Comments

  • MikeAMikeA Member, Patron Provider
    edited September 2025

    @ehhthing said:

    @MikeA said:
    1. CloudFlare isn't banned in countries like China (like reCaptcha) so people in those countries can still use websites and login pages that have captcha.

    Recaptcha works in China if you follow Google’s instructions and use recaptcha.net instead of google.com.

    This is old, it doesn't work. I also just checked now and the domain doesn't respond to TCP in China. I don't think it has worked for years? It's one reason I originally wanted to use Turnstile. CloudFlare has POPs in China, they won't be banned.

    Thanked by 1LowEndStalker
  • The way content is delivered on the web must change if publishers are to stand a change against the AI bots, unfortunately all current popular approaches are way off the mark.

    captchas in particular do not even qualify as an answer.

  • @MallocVoidstar said:

    @fzorb said:

    @satorik said:
    POW is a better solution compared with human verification. I know a WAF called Anubis works in that way, and seems nice.

    According to Tavis Ormandy, Anubis isn't effective, as you can generate solutions for 11 thousand Anubis deployments in 6 minutes using a free Google Cloud VM. https://lock.cmpxchg8b.com/anubis.html. Also, I think that by default, Anubis whitelists some useragents like Googlebot, so you can easily bypass it if you were an AI scraper. Anubis is for the most part pointless IMO. Plus I find it funny how for a while they used AI-generated artwork while being so anti-AI. Not to mention that they use GitHub for code hosting, which is owned by Microsoft, and we all know how interested Microsoft is regarding AI.

    Anubis is weak protection but it's self-hostable and open source, and apparently works enough that sites are using it. At some point high-effort scrapers will probably kill it but right now it works to prevent AI scrapers from taking down sites.

    I guess you're right about it, but I doubt it does much. Most AI scrapers probably use something like Selenium anyways at how many sites require the use of JavaScript. So really it just means that the scraper is just gonna run slower for like 10 seconds.

    I wonder how these scrapers handle 503s though. What I might toy with is see if they ignore a website if the first request returns a 503, but I don't really have AI scrapers knocking on my door... for now at least.

  • LowEndStalkerLowEndStalker Member
    edited September 2025

    @MikeA said:

    @ehhthing said:

    @MikeA said:
    1. CloudFlare isn't banned in countries like China (like reCaptcha) so people in those countries can still use websites and login pages that have captcha.

    Recaptcha works in China if you follow Google’s instructions and use recaptcha.net instead of google.com.

    This is old, it doesn't work. I also just checked now and the domain doesn't respond to TCP in China. I don't think it has worked for years? It's one reason I originally wanted to use Turnstile. CloudFlare has POPs in China, they won't be banned.

    from what I remember, it is blocked partially in China ?

    That is mostly why DDoS Guard exist, because Cloudflare IP's are blocked in certain locations.

  • fatchanfatchan Member, Host Rep

    @user3028938 said: That is a strawman argument there.

    Just cos it happened sometime before in one instance does not lend proof to the current case.

    A single web search will reveal multiple articles, including with quotes from Google representatives, stating that data from recaptcha is used to train AI models and improve maps and street view.

    When you "click the street signs" for example, you:
    1. tell google where the street signs are
    2. then they use the massive corpus of data from people typing distorted text captchas for the 10 years prior to automatically read the text on that sign
    3. then they drive a car around with a 360 degree camera and take photos for "street view", and are able to automatically find the names of the street you're on, names of businesses signs, automatically find where "bridges" "crosswalks", etc are.

    So yes, not only is it accurate to say that they train "vision" AI like my earlier comment, but you can also naturally assume they will use it to train e.g. self driving car AI. I don't consider this a conspiracy.

  • Recaptcha is not free for business its $8 per 100k. Only for your site personal use free. So there is a cost too

  • @Levi said:
    Jail. Straight to jail. No questions asked. Jail.

    Why? ;)

  • @Neoon said:
    The google captcha, is pure cancer.

    If google captcha is pure cancer, cloudflare captcha is the last stage of the cancer!

    Thanked by 2jnd willgo
  • NeoonNeoon Community Contributor, Veteran

    @Flash said:

    @Neoon said:
    The google captcha, is pure cancer.

    If google captcha is pure cancer, cloudflare captcha is the last stage of the cancer!

    Duh, I don't need to click on fkn bicycles.

  • @Neoon said:

    @Flash said:

    @Neoon said:
    The google captcha, is pure cancer.

    If google captcha is pure cancer, cloudflare captcha is the last stage of the cancer!

    Duh, I don't need to click on fkn bicycles.

    When you are clicking on fkn bicycles you are living!
    What are you feeling when cloudflare captcha rejects your login again and again?

  • @stable_genius said:
    The way content is delivered on the web must change if publishers are to stand a change against the AI bots, unfortunately all current popular approaches are way off the mark.

    captchas in particular do not even qualify as an answer.

    Since AI seems to be the answer to all of life's problems these days can't there just be equivalent anti-AI-AI bots to defend websites against malicious AI?

  • @Flash said:

    When you are clicking on fkn bicycles you are living!

    Lol clicking on captcha is your idea of the good life? :confused:

  • @user3028938 said:
    I did that at first when it was just odd things like a stack exchange answer I could look up on some independent site but now it is becoming so ubiquitous, hence my reason for making the post, that I don't see that as practical to boycott all sites that use it.

    It is like the new recaptcha which was equally hard to avoid. That means you are not able to do online shopping on many sites, a lot of internet banking, many day to day things like that.

    You can use Anonymous Overflow for stack exchange and similar sites.

    https://github.com/httpjamesm/AnonymousOverflow

    I tried posting a comment on lowendbox yesterday, and got a cloudflare challenge that never let me pass, so I just gave up trying to post a comment.

    Thanked by 1user3028938
  • stable_geniusstable_genius Member
    edited September 2025

    [@user3028938 said]
    Since AI seems to be the answer to all of life's problems these days can't there just be equivalent anti-AI-AI bots to defend websites against malicious AI?

    While AI can indeed provide some help in solving some of life's problems, if used properly, where it really shines is in spreading botshit everywhere.

    Content delivery strategies used currently were devised to facilitate benign bots such as googlebot but now the AI malicious bots are taking advantaged of that choice to steal everything and be detected only after the fact.

    Deliver your content at human rates, not at super fast inhuman rates, and the malicious AI bots will be thoroughly thwarted. Malicious bots behave very differently from humans and are easy to spot, after the fact. Changing content delivery methods to only deliver content at human rates, without negatives to human readers, is perfectly possible but it requires some work.

    Deliver content in a way that forces all content consumers, malicious bots included, to behave as humans do and the problem will be solved.

  • NeoonNeoon Community Contributor, Veteran

    @Flash said:

    @Neoon said:

    @Flash said:

    @Neoon said:
    The google captcha, is pure cancer.

    If google captcha is pure cancer, cloudflare captcha is the last stage of the cancer!

    Duh, I don't need to click on fkn bicycles.

    When you are clicking on fkn bicycles you are living!
    What are you feeling when cloudflare captcha rejects your login again and again?

    Any chance you working for google?
    Don't be evil.

  • Because it's free.

    Also, reCAPTCHA is much worse than Cloudflare. Just activate a VPN and try solving a reCAPTCHA. You'll be waiting 5 minutes for the pictures to fade out slowly.

  • @stable_genius said:
    The way content is delivered on the web must change if publishers are to stand a change against the AI bots, unfortunately all current popular approaches are way off the mark.

    captchas in particular do not even qualify as an answer.

    Cut to: AI bots become biggest torrent leeches.

  • Why are we blaming CloudFlare here and not the >50% of internet traffic being generated by bots

  • fatchanfatchan Member, Host Rep

    @gremeyer said: Just activate a VPN and try solving a reCAPTCHA. You'll be waiting 5 minutes for the pictures to fade out slowly.

    People should ask themself: why do they make the images fade? Does it make the captcha more secure, or does it just make it more likely you turn off the VPN and feed Google more data?

    Thanked by 2MannDude borkedascii
  • Cloudflare captcha blocks access to many sites, it's a bad thing!

  • PacketsDecreaserPacketsDecreaser Member, Patron Provider

    @willgo said:
    Cloudflare captcha blocks access to many sites, it's a bad thing!

    Just solve the captcha and the website is working

  • PacketsDecreaserPacketsDecreaser Member, Patron Provider

    But yeah the captchas are very anoying and some idiots force all visitors to solve it

    Thanked by 1NeedDeal
  • @PacketsDecreaser said:

    @willgo said:
    Cloudflare captcha blocks access to many sites, it's a bad thing!

    Just solve the captcha and the website is working

    Very bad, if a website needs to captcha almost 10 times until the site comes up. But there are sites come up after 10 mins or never show up, because the captcha is constantly wrong with properly filled numbers or chosen pictures whatever is used.

  • @ascicode said:

    @PacketsDecreaser said:

    @willgo said:
    Cloudflare captcha blocks access to many sites, it's a bad thing!

    Just solve the captcha and the website is working

    Very bad, if a website needs to captcha almost 10 times until the site comes up. But there are sites come up after 10 mins or never show up, because the captcha is constantly wrong with properly filled numbers or chosen pictures whatever is used.

    You do understand that no one here solves captcha for 10 times. You either use normal vpn or normal isp. Drop anonymity bullshit and everything will be fine.

    Now folks running 3 proxies on top of 3 vpn and finishing with tor. Cry me a river.

  • @Levi said: Drop anonymity bullshit and everything will be fine.

    Found the googler!

  • @Levi said:

    @ascicode said:

    @PacketsDecreaser said:

    @willgo said:
    Cloudflare captcha blocks access to many sites, it's a bad thing!

    Just solve the captcha and the website is working

    Very bad, if a website needs to captcha almost 10 times until the site comes up. But there are sites come up after 10 mins or never show up, because the captcha is constantly wrong with properly filled numbers or chosen pictures whatever is used.

    You do understand that no one here solves captcha for 10 times. You either use normal vpn or normal isp. Drop anonymity bullshit and everything will be fine.

    Now folks running 3 proxies on top of 3 vpn and finishing with tor. Cry me a river.

    i was always on home isp, thats annoying.

    Thanked by 1tentor
  • HushedManHushedMan Member, Host Rep

    As a regular internet user, I really hate it! But wearing my webmaster hat, I actually like it a lot. ;)

    Thanked by 1COLBYLICIOUS
  • blip1945blip1945 Member
    edited September 2025

    Because they did it right. Cf turnstile are miles ahead more convenience and less annoying than google recaptcha with its endless looping busses, traffic lights, zebra crossing and crap, and hcaptcha with its rotating hand pointing to flowers. Both should die a horrible death already.

    Anubis pow captcha are also good to not be annoying to human visitors but i think many ai crawlers are already defeating it so sites turned to cf turnstile now.

    Thanked by 1COLBYLICIOUS
  • @Levi said:

    @ascicode said:

    @PacketsDecreaser said:

    @willgo said:
    Cloudflare captcha blocks access to many sites, it's a bad thing!

    Just solve the captcha and the website is working

    Very bad, if a website needs to captcha almost 10 times until the site comes up. But there are sites come up after 10 mins or never show up, because the captcha is constantly wrong with properly filled numbers or chosen pictures whatever is used.

    You do understand that no one here solves captcha for 10 times. You either use normal vpn or normal isp. Drop anonymity bullshit and everything will be fine.

    Now folks running 3 proxies on top of 3 vpn and finishing with tor. Cry me a river.

    Bullshittttt.
    I dont use any vpn and i'm behind residential ip and get cloudflare captchas everywhere EXCEPT cloudflare own website.

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