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k3s cluster: 1 Dedicated vs 2-3 multiple VPS

bustersgbustersg Member
edited April 2025 in Help

I deployed k3s over 2 VPS recently for learning and will later deploy some hobby websites like grafana, wordpress, bookstac etc.
I only deployed the rancherUI and havent done anything, the load is already so high.

master (4cpu, 16ram) @$4/mth : cpu 77%, 4.5 sys load
worker (2cpu, 6ram) @$2/mth : cpu 73%, 2.2 sys load
Total cluster: 6 core, 22ram @$6/mth

Option 1)
If I buy a cheap dedicated like KS-xxx (service transfer) (e.g., E5-1650v4 6core) as master,
will it's cpu load actually be reduced to like < 20% due to dedicated, so all resources to myself only? Then after I can lapse my original master and/or worker VPS to cut cost. (but it sort of defeat the cluster purposes, since single node, might as well go docker way)

Option 2)
I just need to purchase another 4core VPS to add as 2nd worker node, so that I can start deploying applications. That way, these 3 VPS combined is still cheaper (~$10/mth) than 1 dedicated server monthly price.

Thanked by 1abtdw

Comments

  • nitrousdevnitrousdev Member

    May I know what provider you are getting the servers from, for that kind of hardware at that price?

    Are you possibly encountering CPU steal? What processor model is behind those cores and have you looked into what processes are consuming that much CPU usage?

    I am asking the questions above assuming the CPU percentage is for total of the system and not in a situation where 100% == 1 core. I am running the exact same setup with RKE2 and Rancher, and my 4 core master nodes are only at ~20% CPU utilization each, so I don't think the dedicated servers will help you much unless your current VPSes are suffering from a suffocating amount of steal.

  • bustersgbustersg Member
    edited April 2025

    @nicholasoh said:
    May I know what provider you are getting the servers from, for that kind of hardware at that price?

    Are you possibly encountering CPU steal? What processor model is behind those cores and have you looked into what processes are consuming that much CPU usage?

    I am asking the questions above assuming the CPU percentage is for total of the system and not in a situation where 100% == 1 core. I am running the exact same setup with RKE2 and Rancher, and my 4 core master nodes are only at ~20% CPU utilization each, so I don't think the dedicated servers will help you much unless your current VPSes are suffering from a suffocating amount of steal.

    I bought the 2 VPS over BF sales and got the double ram bonus hence the cheap price.
    master: AMD EPYC 7642
    worker: AMD Ryzen 9 3900X

    cpu load from grafana but double-confirmed all cores avg 70+% using top

    top - 01:12:40 up 1 day,  1:17,  1 user,  load average: 6.24, 5.59, 5.19
Tasks: 212 total,   1 running, 211 sleeping,   0 stopped,   0 zombie
%Cpu0  : 67.5 us, 11.9 sy,  0.0 ni, 20.2 id,  0.0 wa,  0.0 hi,  0.3 si,  0.0 st
%Cpu1  : 67.6 us,  6.1 sy,  0.0 ni, 26.4 id,  0.0 wa,  0.0 hi,  0.0 si,  0.0 st
%Cpu2  : 73.5 us,  5.0 sy,  0.0 ni, 21.5 id,  0.0 wa,  0.0 hi,  0.0 si,  0.0 st
%Cpu3  : 77.0 us,  5.3 sy,  0.0 ni, 16.7 id,  0.0 wa,  0.0 hi,  0.7 si,  0.3 st

 307720 root      20   0 2380232 508204 124788 S 139.7   3.1 831:50.62 rancher
 307708 root      20   0 2309380 403224 119552 S 139.0   2.5 790:57.33 rancher
 361003 root      20   0 2901960   1.3g 149840 S  11.3   8.4  19:57.75 k3s-server
 301500 root      20   0 2314324  81596  52888 S   0.7   0.5   5:42.09 calico-node
 361040 root      20   0 1493700 177960 118172 S   0.7   1.1  19:42.73 containerd
 298486 root      20   0 1238668  14920  11408 S   0.3   0.1   0:10.30 containerd-shim
 298611 root      20   0 1238924  14540  11028 S   0.3   0.1   0:09.66 containerd-shim
 299812 k3s       20   0 1284096  62600  41076 S   0.3   0.4   2:12.80 metrics-server
 300728 65532     20   0 1406620 128624  95812 S   0.3   0.8   0:32.33 traefik
 301424 10001     20   0 1276208  56660  36052 S   0.3   0.3   0:49.98 calico-typha
 301489 root      20   0 2239824  66280  48524 S   0.3   0.4   0:05.01 calico-node
    Thanked by 1nitrousdev
  • webcraftwebcraft Member
    edited April 2025

    Recent Rancher v2.11 has issues with current k3s v.32.3 which causes the high load I guess. Had the same problem too. Only solution is to disable rancherUI until v2.11.1 is released along with new k3s version.

    Generally, I'd be interested too in feedback whether a dedicated or several small vms are preffered. Currently I'm using several small ones but latency from controlpane to worker nodes is kicking in on some apps.

    Thanked by 2bustersg nitrousdev
  • bustersgbustersg Member
    edited April 2025

    @webcraft said:
    Recent Rancher v2.11 has issues with current k3s v.32.3 which causes the high load I guess. Had the same problem too. Only solution is to disable rancherUI until v2.11.1 is released along with new k3s version.

    Where is the source? Can't we just downgrade rancherUI to v2.10 or lower?

    Thanked by 1nitrousdev
  • nitrousdevnitrousdev Member
    edited April 2025

    @bustersg said: I bought the 2 VPS over BF sales and got the double ram bonus hence the cheap price.

    Ah that makes more sense!

    @bustersg said:
    307720 root 20 0 2380232 508204 124788 S 139.7 3.1 831:50.62 rancher
    307708 root 20 0 2309380 403224 119552 S 139.0 2.5 790:57.33 rancher

    The Rancher usage does not seem to be normal, have you noticed anything wrong like errors from the interface or anything of that sort? Perhaps check logs? Below is the top result on my master node on 7C13.

    top - 00:15:25 up 5 days, 15:33,  1 user,  load average: 0.86, 1.21, 1.23
Tasks: 308 total,   1 running, 307 sleeping,   0 stopped,   0 zombie
%Cpu(s):  7.7 us,  4.8 sy,  0.0 ni, 86.4 id,  0.2 wa,  0.0 hi,  0.5 si,  0.3 st
MiB Mem :   7894.2 total,    964.8 free,   3923.9 used,   3321.9 buff/cache
MiB Swap:      0.0 total,      0.0 free,      0.0 used.   3970.3 avail Mem

    PID USER      PR  NI    VIRT    RES    SHR S  %CPU  %MEM     TIME+ COMMAND
  11397 root      20   0 3087048   1.2g  50816 S   9.9  16.1     11,05 kube-apiserver
   9259 root      20   0   11.4g 235948  88960 S   8.6   2.9      8,03 etcd
    992 root      20   0 1379924 136968  61824 S   6.0   1.7      7,12 kubelet
   8414 root      20   0 6907776 532208 113408 S   2.6   6.6 161:16.29 rancher
    939 root      20   0 1380860 113044  32000 S   2.0   1.4     23,03 containerd
   8052 root      20   0 1326336  83060  52224 S   2.0   1.0 112:46.47 calico-node
   6800 root      20   0 1444152 201864  59136 S   1.3   2.5 100:44.73 longhorn-manage
    852 root      20   0 1541840  91428  25344 S   0.7   1.1  36:56.68 rke2
   9877 root      20   0 2381276  33912  17152 S   0.7   0.4  11:06.43 longhorn-instan
  11328 root      20   0 1242132  19320  12288 S   0.7   0.2  18:57.62 containerd-shim
1339721 root      20   0   13876   6528   4352 R   0.7   0.1   0:00.15 top
     17 root      20   0       0      0      0 I   0.3   0.0   8:29.85 rcu_preempt
   1158 root      20   0 1241992  15968  11520 S   0.3   0.2   2:12.33 containerd-shim
   2075 root      20   0 1314880  29456  11648 S   0.3   0.4  16:31.93 kube-controller
   2232 root      20   0 1242644  18544  12032 S   0.3   0.2  10:10.33 containerd-shim
   2712 root      20   0 1241992  16140  11648 S   0.3   0.2   2:14.08 containerd-shim
   5199 root      20   0 1241992  16212  11392 S   0.3   0.2   2:17.25 containerd-shim
   5656 root      20   0 1241736  15940  11648 S   0.3   0.2   2:13.85 containerd-shim
   5952 root      20   0 1242412  16744  11648 S   0.3   0.2   5:04.66 containerd-shim
   5995 root      20   0 1241992  16136  11520 S   0.3   0.2   2:12.82 containerd-shim
   6468 root      20   0 1278756  28344  19968 S   0.3   0.4   1:37.82 csi-resizer
   7704 root      20   0 1272420  28476  16896 S   0.3   0.4  12:35.53 flanneld
   9789 root      20   0 1242248  18628  11904 S   0.3   0.2  14:03.45 containerd-shim
  10224 root      20   0 1280700  49528  33664 S   0.3   0.6  23:01.05 juicefs-csi-dri
  11115 nobody    20   0 1336636  31784  10880 S   0.3   0.4  20:16.55 kube-state-metr
  11624 10001     20   0 1893452 107252  13440 S   0.3   1.3     19,14 adapter
1281162 root      20   0       0      0      0 I   0.3   0.0   0:00.38 kworker/1:0-events
      1 root      20   0   24272  15332   9444 S   0.0   0.2   0:37.10 systemd
  • webcraftwebcraft Member
    edited April 2025

    @bustersg said:

    @webcraft said:
    Recent Rancher v2.11 has issues with current k3s v.32.3 which causes the high load I guess. Had the same problem too. Only solution is to disable rancherUI until v2.11.1 is released along with new k3s version.

    Where is the source? Can't we just downgrade rancherUI to v2.10 or lower?

    I don't think you can downgrade the controlplane easily. Their git has some more information even though it's just few information because v2.10.4 with older k3s is stable (or prime how rancher calls it) and it doesn't have those problems.

    Thanked by 1nitrousdev
  • nitrousdevnitrousdev Member

    @webcraft said:
    Recent Rancher v2.11 has issues with current k3s v.32.3 which causes the high load I guess. Had the same problem too. Only solution is to disable rancherUI until v2.11.1 is released along with new k3s version.

    Generally, I'd be interested too in feedback whether a dedicated or several small vms are preffered. Currently I'm using several small ones but latency from controlpane to worker nodes is kicking in on some apps.

    Would make sense, I am having no issues on RKE2 here.

    Thanked by 1webcraft
  • bustersgbustersg Member

    @nicholasoh
    How many rancher replicas do you have?
    I just found out I have like 3? (don't count webhook)
    Is it because too many replicas?

    $ kubectl get pods --all-namespaces | grep rancher
cattle-system                     rancher-768f479df-b5c4p                             1/1     Running     0             10h
cattle-system                     rancher-768f479df-rd7pm                             1/1     Running     0             10h
cattle-system                     rancher-768f479df-wvx2k                             1/1     Running     0             10h
cattle-system                     rancher-webhook-5dbc7649bb-k2qmd                    1/1     Running     0             10h
    Thanked by 1nitrousdev
  • nitrousdevnitrousdev Member

    I also have 3 replicas, so I don't think that's the issue. I believe that's just for Rancher's HA. Also to be noted, I am running Rancher v2.10.2.

    kubectl get pods --all-namespaces | grep rancher
cattle-system                     rancher-654fbbd8c-5v4d4                                   1/1     Running     9 (5d15h ago)    54d
cattle-system                     rancher-654fbbd8c-cvlql                                   1/1     Running     17 (36h ago)     51d
cattle-system                     rancher-654fbbd8c-vn64h                                   1/1     Running     15 (5d15h ago)   54d
cattle-system                     rancher-webhook-554ffd94d8-k8x8s                          1/1     Running     18 (5d15h ago)   55d
    Thanked by 1bustersg
  • webcraftwebcraft Member
    edited April 2025

    @bustersg said:
    @nicholasoh
    How many rancher replicas do you have?
    I just found out I have like 3? (don't count webhook)
    Is it because too many replicas?

    $ kubectl get pods --all-namespaces | grep rancher
cattle-system                     rancher-768f479df-b5c4p                             1/1     Running     0             10h
cattle-system                     rancher-768f479df-rd7pm                             1/1     Running     0             10h
cattle-system                     rancher-768f479df-wvx2k                             1/1     Running     0             10h
cattle-system                     rancher-webhook-5dbc7649bb-k2qmd                    1/1     Running     0             10h

    That's just one, not three replicas. Check replicas with: kubectl get deployment rancher -n cattle-system -o jsonpath='{.spec.replicas}'

    Thanked by 1nitrousdev
  • bustersgbustersg Member
    edited April 2025

    From https://ranchermanager.docs.rancher.com/getting-started/installation-and-upgrade/install-upgrade-on-a-kubernetes-cluster
    I used 'latest' for <CHART_REPO>
    It installed v2.11 for me and my k3s is v1.32.3+k3s1

        helm install rancher rancher-<CHART_REPO>/rancher \
      --namespace cattle-system \
      --set hostname=rancher.my.org \
      --set bootstrapPassword=admin \
      --set ingress.tls.source=letsEncrypt \
      --set [email protected] \
      --set letsEncrypt.ingress.class=nginx
    Thanked by 1nitrousdev
  • bustersgbustersg Member

    @nicholasoh said:
    I also have 3 replicas, so I don't think that's the issue. I believe that's just for Rancher's HA. Also to be noted, I am running Rancher v2.10.2.

    kubectl get pods --all-namespaces | grep rancher
cattle-system                     rancher-654fbbd8c-5v4d4                                   1/1     Running     9 (5d15h ago)    54d
cattle-system                     rancher-654fbbd8c-cvlql                                   1/1     Running     17 (36h ago)     51d
cattle-system                     rancher-654fbbd8c-vn64h                                   1/1     Running     15 (5d15h ago)   54d
cattle-system                     rancher-webhook-554ffd94d8-k8x8s                          1/1     Running     18 (5d15h ago)   55d

    Tomorrow I tried to downgrade rancher to v2.10.x and see

    Thanked by 1nitrousdev
  • webcraftwebcraft Member

    @bustersg said:
    From https://ranchermanager.docs.rancher.com/getting-started/installation-and-upgrade/install-upgrade-on-a-kubernetes-cluster
    I used 'latest' for <CHART_REPO>
    It installed v2.11 for me and my k3s is v1.32.3+k3s1

        helm install rancher rancher-<CHART_REPO>/rancher \
      --namespace cattle-system \
      --set hostname=rancher.my.org \
      --set bootstrapPassword=admin \
      --set ingress.tls.source=letsEncrypt \
      --set [email protected] \
      --set letsEncrypt.ingress.class=nginx

    If it's a new installation just reinstall with stable instead of latest would be the easiest I guess. Downgrading on the controlplane results in problems in my experience.

    Thanked by 1nitrousdev
  • nitrousdevnitrousdev Member

    @webcraft said:

    @bustersg said:
    @nicholasoh
    How many rancher replicas do you have?
    I just found out I have like 3? (don't count webhook)
    Is it because too many replicas?

    $ kubectl get pods --all-namespaces | grep rancher
cattle-system                     rancher-768f479df-b5c4p                             1/1     Running     0             10h
cattle-system                     rancher-768f479df-rd7pm                             1/1     Running     0             10h
cattle-system                     rancher-768f479df-wvx2k                             1/1     Running     0             10h
cattle-system                     rancher-webhook-5dbc7649bb-k2qmd                    1/1     Running     0             10h

    That's just one, not three replicas. Check replicas with: kubectl get deployment rancher -n cattle-system -o jsonpath='{.spec.replicas}'

    kubectl get deployment rancher -n cattle-system -o jsonpath='{.spec.replicas}'
3

    Same result for me here, but apologies if I got the technical terms wrong, quite new to K8s as well.

    @bustersg said:

    @nicholasoh said:
    I also have 3 replicas, so I don't think that's the issue. I believe that's just for Rancher's HA. Also to be noted, I am running Rancher v2.10.2.

    kubectl get pods --all-namespaces | grep rancher
cattle-system                     rancher-654fbbd8c-5v4d4                                   1/1     Running     9 (5d15h ago)    54d
cattle-system                     rancher-654fbbd8c-cvlql                                   1/1     Running     17 (36h ago)     51d
cattle-system                     rancher-654fbbd8c-vn64h                                   1/1     Running     15 (5d15h ago)   54d
cattle-system                     rancher-webhook-554ffd94d8-k8x8s                          1/1     Running     18 (5d15h ago)   55d

    Tomorrow I tried to downgrade rancher to v2.10.x and see

    Yeah that probably sounds like the best plan. Moving over to dedicated won't fix the Rancher CPU issue, I don't think.

    Thanked by 1webcraft
  • bustersgbustersg Member

    @webcraft said:

    @bustersg said:
    From https://ranchermanager.docs.rancher.com/getting-started/installation-and-upgrade/install-upgrade-on-a-kubernetes-cluster
    I used 'latest' for <CHART_REPO>
    It installed v2.11 for me and my k3s is v1.32.3+k3s1

        helm install rancher rancher-<CHART_REPO>/rancher \
      --namespace cattle-system \
      --set hostname=rancher.my.org \
      --set bootstrapPassword=admin \
      --set ingress.tls.source=letsEncrypt \
      --set [email protected] \
      --set letsEncrypt.ingress.class=nginx

    If it's a new installation just reinstall with stable instead of latest would be the easiest I guess. Downgrading on the controlplane results in problems in my experience.

    Finally understood what you meant https://github.com/rancher/rancher/releases
    only rancher v2.11 support k3s v1.32
    means i need to downgrade both!!! :s

    Thanked by 2webcraft nitrousdev
  • bustersgbustersg Member
    edited April 2025

    @webcraft @nicholasoh
    thanks guys, i think i got it resolved.
    i added the rancher-alpha repo and did helm upgrade rancher rancher-alpha/rancher to v2.11.1-alpha2

    Tasks: 216 total,   1 running, 215 sleeping,   0 stopped,   0 zombie
%Cpu0  :  4.0 us,  2.6 sy,  0.0 ni, 92.7 id,  0.0 wa,  0.0 hi,  0.7 si,  0.0 st
%Cpu1  :  6.7 us, 10.4 sy,  0.0 ni, 82.9 id,  0.0 wa,  0.0 hi,  0.0 si,  0.0 st
%Cpu2  :  5.1 us,  6.8 sy,  0.0 ni, 87.8 id,  0.0 wa,  0.0 hi,  0.0 si,  0.3 st
%Cpu3  :  6.1 us,  7.8 sy,  0.0 ni, 85.4 id,  0.0 wa,  0.0 hi,  0.3 si,  0.3 st
MiB Mem :  15989.4 total,    464.2 free,   2900.6 used,  12624.6 buff/cache
MiB Swap:   4096.0 total,   4093.7 free,      2.3 used.  12753.8 avail Mem

    PID USER      PR  NI    VIRT    RES    SHR S  %CPU  %MEM     TIME+ COMMAND
 361040 root      20   0 1493700 181432 118412 S  34.3   1.1  26:10.37 containerd
 361003 root      20   0 3109588   1.4g 150224 S  10.7   9.1  26:57.88 k3s-server
 386116 root      20   0 2238632 447628 123720 S   1.7   2.7   0:59.93 rancher
 301500 root      20   0 2314324  81704  53208 S   1.0   0.5   6:10.09 calico-node
 386554 root      20   0 2039024 366812 119812 S   1.0   2.2   0:28.76 rancher
 299544 10001     20   0 1297648 103112  50996 S   0.7   0.6   1:09.85 apiserver
     22 root      20   0       0      0      0 S   0.3   0.0   0:10.55 ksoftirqd/1
 298997 65532     20   0 1294616  61404  46324 S   0.3   0.4   1:01.29 coredns
 299812 k3s       20   0 1284096  62600  41076 S   0.3   0.4   2:23.32 metrics-server
 312648 nobody    20   0 1274412  47644  31408 S   0.3   0.3   0:21.10 system-upgrade-
 387131 k3s       20   0   15476   5132   4204 S   0.3   0.0   0:00.80 top
 388608 k3s       20   0 1304096  74536  53136 S   0.3   0.5   0:00.48 fleetcontroller
    Thanked by 2webcraft nitrousdev
  • bustersgbustersg Member

    also did a sudo systemctl restart k3s and all remains good thus not by chance it got resolved.

    cpu dip to norm

    Thanked by 1nitrousdev
  • nitrousdevnitrousdev Member

    That sounds fantastic, very glad to hear you got it resolved!

    Thanked by 1bustersg
  • webcraftwebcraft Member

    @bustersg said:
    @webcraft @nicholasoh
    thanks guys, i think i got it resolved.
    i added the rancher-alpha repo and did helm upgrade rancher rancher-alpha/rancher to v2.11.1-alpha2

    Tasks: 216 total,   1 running, 215 sleeping,   0 stopped,   0 zombie
%Cpu0  :  4.0 us,  2.6 sy,  0.0 ni, 92.7 id,  0.0 wa,  0.0 hi,  0.7 si,  0.0 st
%Cpu1  :  6.7 us, 10.4 sy,  0.0 ni, 82.9 id,  0.0 wa,  0.0 hi,  0.0 si,  0.0 st
%Cpu2  :  5.1 us,  6.8 sy,  0.0 ni, 87.8 id,  0.0 wa,  0.0 hi,  0.0 si,  0.3 st
%Cpu3  :  6.1 us,  7.8 sy,  0.0 ni, 85.4 id,  0.0 wa,  0.0 hi,  0.3 si,  0.3 st
MiB Mem :  15989.4 total,    464.2 free,   2900.6 used,  12624.6 buff/cache
MiB Swap:   4096.0 total,   4093.7 free,      2.3 used.  12753.8 avail Mem

    PID USER      PR  NI    VIRT    RES    SHR S  %CPU  %MEM     TIME+ COMMAND
 361040 root      20   0 1493700 181432 118412 S  34.3   1.1  26:10.37 containerd
 361003 root      20   0 3109588   1.4g 150224 S  10.7   9.1  26:57.88 k3s-server
 386116 root      20   0 2238632 447628 123720 S   1.7   2.7   0:59.93 rancher
 301500 root      20   0 2314324  81704  53208 S   1.0   0.5   6:10.09 calico-node
 386554 root      20   0 2039024 366812 119812 S   1.0   2.2   0:28.76 rancher
 299544 10001     20   0 1297648 103112  50996 S   0.7   0.6   1:09.85 apiserver
     22 root      20   0       0      0      0 S   0.3   0.0   0:10.55 ksoftirqd/1
 298997 65532     20   0 1294616  61404  46324 S   0.3   0.4   1:01.29 coredns
 299812 k3s       20   0 1284096  62600  41076 S   0.3   0.4   2:23.32 metrics-server
 312648 nobody    20   0 1274412  47644  31408 S   0.3   0.3   0:21.10 system-upgrade-
 387131 k3s       20   0   15476   5132   4204 S   0.3   0.0   0:00.80 top
 388608 k3s       20   0 1304096  74536  53136 S   0.3   0.5   0:00.48 fleetcontroller

    Thanks for sharing the solution. I was going a step back to stable but going one step further at the edge sometimes solve it too. :sunglasses:

    Thanked by 2bustersg nitrousdev
  • vitobottavitobotta Member

    If you really want to learn, do NOT use the Rancher UI.

  • artxsartxs Member

    this is the proper way to learn kubernetes: https://github.com/kelseyhightower/kubernetes-the-hard-way

    Thanked by 1zGato
  • bustersgbustersg Member

    @vitobotta said:
    If you really want to learn, do NOT use the Rancher UI.

    i just find out that the rancher is more of a info board and so much less i can do via UI compared to openshift. anyway my purpose is to learn to learn ingress, route, LB etc. basically the networking side. frankly speaking i was pretty paralysed during k3s deployment, i acquire 90% kubectl cmds help from chatgpt so like you suggested, will use the terminal often to deploy stuff.

    @artxs said:
    this is the proper way to learn kubernetes: https://github.com/kelseyhightower/kubernetes-the-hard-way

    thanks for the input, i see that it is full k8s? my current and prev job use openshift through cloud provisioning, hence i dont ready get my hands that dirty. i just want to learn enough for my job scope, not ready to dive into getting bare metal and deploy k8s or openshift from scratch but thanks, will take a look at the material.

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