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Do you still do no JS?
When it comes to UI, do you still torture your-self with graceful fallback to no JS? Or just go fully blown Javascript first and the rest can go f* them-selves?
Thanked by 1farsighter
Comments
My UI doesn't need any Javascript, the server outputs the whole page in around 100ms (unless doing more complex database queries which could be optimized further), so why should I bother the user to wait until all bloated libraries and elements load? Javascript should be there for convenience and easier inteactivity like auto complete search bar but not that it has to fetch each element separately dozen times.
But do you design specifically in mind that your potential visitors comes with "javascript.enable false" setting at their browsers? I do not care about speed, I'am asking more about compatibility and accessibility.
I do care about accessibility. I tried to access my site on some cheap smart TV and the issue was it couldn't display some unicode menu icons rather than it wouldn't be usable. I wouldn't say that I expect clients which have outright JS disabled but my goal is to have the basic functionality available without JS because all the work happens on the server anyway. Anything on top is for convenience like multi drop down form that is either updated through JS or you have to submit it to load the next list from server when using HTML only.
Of course if you have app beyond CRUD like map with real time data feed that you want to move around and zoom then you need JS for that.
Browsers without JavaScript and CSS capabilities can access all content on yoursunny.com.
However, we will never know how many of them are out there, because Google Analytics now requires JavaScript.
Notice:
We do not have cookie banners.
Readers from locations with data privacy laws, such as EU and California and China, are advised to disable JavaScript prior to viewing our website, so that they will not be logged by Google Analytics.
Doesn't everyone block Google Analytics nowadays anyway?
There are still web server log files, though (for those mentally strong enough not to hide behind a proxy)
i completely avoid JavaScript whenever possible
"I like ugly websites and I've never worked in enterprise software"
We allow analytics to be uploaded freely from our user-agents.
yoursunny.com used to have 51.LA webmaster analytics as well.
However, our account was blocked after we lost the ICP license.
We use zero trust tunnel as our servers do not have incoming ports.
We still receive reader IP in CF-Connecting-IP header.
Occasionally, we grep HTTP server logs to gain insights.
However, we don't have the energy to do so frequently.
HTTP 200 code is not acceptable access. The proper access without JS requires that all parts of website would function the same as with JS enabled.
Quick analysis of yoursunny.com shows these JS scripts being loaded (from third parties!):
https://yoursunny.com/t/2021/NDN-video-ndn6/ -- dependant on chart.min.js
Website dependant on cloudflare CDN and not utilizing local resource serving. Missing noscript tag with relevant information to contact website developer for request of website content which COULD be accessed by parties where cloudflare is banned or JS is blocked.
You have work to do my friend.
It's not that they can go cavort with their genitals, it's that they can use modern software.
I don't care about Internet Explorer 4 compatibility, either. Javascript is table stakes.
To be honest, I'm not required to worry about accessibility, so I don't, but in 2025, if accessibility requires not using Javascript, that's absurd, no? Do I really need to swear off Javascript based on someone's limited Smart TV?
I think most of the "no javascript" surfing crowd are either people with weird security fetishes, or Richard Stallman fanbois.
Case in point is lwn.net. They don't use Javascript, but are getting raped by AI scrapers because they can't use captchas due to catering to the no-JS crowd.
There are people who still prefer no-javascript?
I thought we'd already left that behind in the 2000s?
Like, 99% of my users prefer using JavaScript, and that 1% is mostly bots who would prefer no-js to crawl my site faster.
I would much rather support my users than those bot makers
Ah yes, I love nojs. I want my websites to behave like asp.net sites 20years ago. I prefer vb.net too. I am also a strong marquee advocate.
After almost 2 decades of web development, I now make my websites like this :
Html, css website that loads 100% from cloudflare's geolocation cache servers
Ajax based dynamic non cached data pulled from the origin once the static content fully loads.
This setups means lightening fast websites, no matter where u r on the globe bcoz cloudflare is everywhere
Most of all, it's all free
u just need to setup few rules and voila.
P. S. I mainly use php with html and css. Not a lot of js but u gotta use it where it's essential, can't live without it these days. Hell my php projects make use of npm js packages
e.g. Critical and some other like js consolidator, etc.
with topics like these it's so clear who works with code and who doesn't
That's the beauty, with good styling your page can load fast, look great and doesn't need to preload megabyte worth of transpiled garbage with polyfills to support ancient browser versions nobody has anymore.
Most of websites are simple CRUD (like this forum or hosting panels), yet too often they keep loading parts of the page way too long. Even if it's static content but from different endpoints. Then you have panels like Virmach one where the list of services will keep loading indefinitely just because one server isn't responding when you could prerender all basic parameters of the service list in the backend and only do basic ping check to show that the vm is online and maybe load current consumed amount of data.
Also people too often forget that most clients now access pages from battery operated devices and it's not preferable to offload all the work to client to waste their battery instead of doing it more efficiently on the server already.
The essential contents are so functional.
Chart.js is used in the chart.
Blind readers cannot see the chart anyway, but they can hear the text.
The website itself is served through CDN, so that this point is moot.
Contact information is available on
/m/page.Aesthetic aside, I find it funny that:
https://get.foundation/
(a javascript framework. with images, js, css, etc)
is much faster than:
https://lwn.net/Articles/1008897/
(the anti-js squad mentioned by @raindog308 above)
I don't think any humans are going to browse my sites without JS.
No JS mode is mostly only useful for search engines to be able to index/crawl my site (which is still very useful)
I don't implement no js.
If it is some static website, I can understand. But if one works on enterprise software, where there will be complex input..... Implementing no js will be nightmare for both front-end and backend along with the users.
You'd be surprised, but I've seen people with this mindset who work on enterprise software. One of them would avoid JS, but in cases they need it, they'd write everything from scratch on vanilla JS. Even if they'll write something on a framework like Svelte they'll rewrite it to Vanilla
Idk, seems fun to me that people would think that any JS is equal to a large bloated unoptimized React app
Fumo Fumo
Reminds me senior JS dev:
Hah, this video is still relevant. Btw, usually it's Go or Rust people who hate JS so much that they'll use wasm to write their front-end
developing a dynamic snappy website with good ux is pretty much impossible without js
no js users are for the most part paranoid masochists. the js sandbox is plenty secure and no one is going to waste a 0day sandbox escape on you
only serious concern is fingerprinting. last time i checked the only non-tor browser that does js while successfully blocking advanced fingerprinting techniques was mullvad browser. and its really really slow
Modern days, JS is not a problem, the problem is TS and so many ugly wrapper (js frameworks). I never understand why JS need to be "compiled", why add such an ugly abstract layer on it.
That's not true.... I can't imagine some of the large scale projects I have worked on without TS or without those "ugly frameworks". Also, for smaller projects it makes your life easier imo.
Jquery anyone?
I often use plain js for my sites. Often only to add realtime updates etc.
I dont like js frameworks as they are bloated, slow or result in large js files.
extremely based
So what?
How big is a React app - a few MBs? Who cares about that in 2025.