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I think Royalehosting is the only one that properly lists what is considered fair use.
https://royalehosting.net/legal/fairuse-policy
Ahhh so I do, thank you! Much appreciated!
I still have questions though... What is fair use?
Is that a dedicated vCore or is that fair share?
20TB limit? Why are we moaning about 14TB in 7 days that's still within OPs limit potentially?
This is pretty much shooting ourselves in the foot.
Hi,
That offer is not the same that the customer bought in fact that one was closed on Nov. 5 2024.
The customer bought on Nov. 23 2024 with different details for that product.
There is perfectly usable term: unmetered. This means provider does not count bandwidth or enforce strict limits. Now, “fair use” term is used to protect providers in case that “unmetered” backfires. Such in this case. Because 2% of customers generates 98% of problems.
Manipulating terminology, lying, deceiving, over promissing and just straight up over selling to attract gulible customers is the strategy of newcomers in hosting market. They either scam or shift from low end market.
You must be honest and accept limitations in low end market.
Thanks for your response. i appreciated it the coments you made and i hope best for your company.
By fair-use we mean utilisation consistent with the purchased plan and do not accept 90-100% utilisation of h24 resources.
Through fair-use, the user can obtain bursts that are not intensified as a lack thereof, which is why we do not drastically limit resources, otherwise they would not be allowed to burst.
The vCore is shared and not dedicated otherwise it would have been specified in the offer that the resource was dedicated.
I said 14+TB not 14, I can't specify here how much it actually used, we don't look at how many TB in total it used but how much bandwidth it used in the last 24 hours, consider that the counter resets every month so you can already consider that 14+TB was used in 7 days and this can start to give you a measure if not precise of how much bandwidth it used on average in 24 hours, saturating the port for too long.
We know precisely how much it used in 24 hours but as I said before I can't tell you in detail and specifically how much .
I appreciate the advice, we will shortly be updating our ToS so as to make what we mean by fair use even more detailed.
I would just like you to appreciate that we do not allow a single user to harm everyone else on the same node.
Its possible, remember when you use vpn , bandwidth calculate is double so you need half the bandwidth to 1tb per day. along with count both inbound nd outbound
So user blasting 100Mbps 24/7 which i think is an abuse case with that price point
@Dasabo why you still send emails to closed accounts? Those accounts which asked for refund due your network problems, which you are the 1st company here that close the account for refund but still send emails for your marketing is wrong. You are EU registered company and need to comply with GDPR and delete all data on those accounts and remove them from your system!
Even now, you (all providers that offer unlimited) are expecting users to read through pages of legal jargon to find out what fair use is?
You see, you are targeting gullible folks that will make this whole experience sour for everyone.
Try it out, list out exactly specs customers can use, no bs fair use clause on the order/ page and LET offers page and see how much, if any dent it is making. In this way you will not need to defend your TOS in a public forum. Things are clearly documented in black and white.
I really urge all providers to try this and make this an enjoyable experience for all. Stop this BS unlimited crap labeled with a fine print.
How about the users who will see for example you offer 20TB but don't feel that is very much for the low cost of the server and would demand 50TB on the offer but never use more than 1TB in on average. Most do not have a idea of how much they will use and ignore offers with fair and clear packages.
You only need to see the requests of late, 4GB ram, 50GB storage and unlimited at 10gbit for $3 a month, yes this is low end talk but some of the requests are becoming more than low end.
Majority users here thrive on FOMO and get excited seeing unlimited without understanding their real resource needs including cpu and ram. You are correct.
So this is going to be a mindset change. Is it easy? No.
Is it possible? Hopefully if the change comes from providers united..
In an ideal world where the end user understands the service he is buying and what its limitations are, your argument is entirely reasonable.
I completely agree with @xHosts , most users don't realistically know how many resources they will use and if we set a low limit they simply wouldn't buy the service, that's why we decided to set a fair limit based on the experience of how much a normal user can use in terms of resources while making the offer appealing.
The market is full of competitors and unfortunately there are many competitors who shamelessly oversell even here within LET killing prices and making it difficult for those who try to offer a good service in a legitimate way to market.
If you notice we get attacked by ‘borderline’ users, have you ever seen any users who are satisfied with our service come here to LET and say we are nice and good? I haven't seen them, does that mean we don't have any satisfied users here on LET? I would say not, in the last month alone we have gained 400 new customers from LET, how many of them do you see complaining about our service only a few....can be counted on the fingers of one hand maybe 2....
The issue is now partly I feel because of the wide gap in provider status, some are very large providers such own hardware, networks, owned IP address space compared to others renting hardware and leasing IP addresses.
The ones owning hardware are able to have lower costs overall, offer much better packages here compared to the ones who rent and lease, this is in some ways forcing the ones leasing to take the gamble to compete in the market place that is already flooded with providers.
We then have the drama community which can be entertaining but others take it very serious to the extreme.
In the perfect world thigs would be more workable but sadly it is a tough market with some people who will buy a $7 a year server and demand the same features if you went to a fully managed provider, if they do not get that they attack the providers and staff.
I would like to personally see here limits put in place but also a separate market place maybe one aimed at people who just simply want a vps for a person VPN or low traffic site with the current price caps while also a market place more aimed at businesses or people who want a premium service with the premium price tags, then if you sign up to something low end you can expect the service to be fair, eg fair response times, performance but not expecting the earth
If you sign up to the premium services with a provider you can expect higher performance, better response times, more guarantees of what you get.
I respect all my customers but some people sign up with the high end expectations of you do everything for them but are paying you hardly the costs at the end of the day,
So essentially it is a tradeoff for providers...
Right @Dasabo @xHosts ?
this is let if you advertise unlimited there will be someone trying its limits....
so my 5cents..
providers set limits for your f. products
and providers? find an established and well known provider to set your most significant f. company vpn server and seal it nicely.
I am falling in love with you and will soon start believing that you and I are the same person.
I fully agree with what you say, they demand respect by disrespecting themselves, they use the rule of ‘the customer is always right’ when they are not.
They expect the same service from a customer who pays much more than them, the low end packages have a very low profit for us providers and they don't understand that, they don't understand that we use them as a marketing tool to let more average customers know about our higher end services.
They expect the major domo to respond to them after 1.5seconds after opening the ticket but paying €10.00/year, they expect to have the dedicated resources for €10.00/year.
How can you expect to get respect from us when you are constantly accused that you are running away with the loot, that you are failing, that you are a fraud, that you are a cheat, all adjectives based on nothing.
In some ways yes.
The community is very wide spread from a provider with just a few servers, getting hit with standard costs from providers (no discounts from data centres) because they only have a handful of servers starting out vs other providers with thousands of owned servers, owned ip space. Overall their costs are more but in perspective when the calculations are done their costs are maybe 40-50% of the ones renting giving them the options of ultra low deals.
How many users here do you see are attracted more to cost over quality of service, but the same ones will go to 5 providers for the same server each falling short and do not get a refund from each provider, but in the first step could have went to a provider, got what they needed but would have cost maybe 50% more of their first provider but never consider it because of the price.
Not exactly, I have tried to explain it to you several times, I cannot understand where you see false marketing?
I have provided what I have described, there are Terms and Conditions to follow and the user accepts them before payment, if the user is not clear they can contact us before ordering and once they receive our reply they can decide whether to continue with the same or not, why is this not done?
I want to ask you a question, pretend you are in our place where you are the provider and I am the customer, would you accept me that for €10/year I want to use the service at all costs as if I had the resources to myself without paying for them?
I do not think once or twice means "several".
You are going off on a technicality again.
If yours have questions they should reach out.
Why can't you be transparent from get go? Is it so difficult to grasp? Can you see how some problems can be removed if customers are provided what to expect in simple terms rather than asking them to review a legal essay of x pages?
Service provided offers unlimited resources. Customer sees that and buys it thinking they got an amazing deal
Customer uses the said resources
Provider contacts customer / suspends service for abusing fair use policy which is listed in T&C somewhere obscure that a regular user would not even care to read.
I construe it as false marketing. Sure your offers mention fair share. But it also mentions unlimited.
You need not agree with me here. But deep down, you may want to ask are you really doing responsible marketing or targeting gullible folks that will get excited with a flashy deal.
Majority of issues in places like this ends up happening cause something is advertised/ marketed and end users (not saying they are right) feel cheated.
My 1 cent for this hour.
Thanks
I always stay far away from providers that have some unclear "fair use" clause. For me as a customer it means that the provider can not be trusted as they might change their opinion of "fair" at any moment.
Many do.
I love playing the lottery of “unlimited bandwidth” vpses and thinking whether or not I will get suspended
Well using 90% of shared cpu continuously = good reason for suspension. This must be specified in the ToS though. And I do appreciate when ToS have a clear and human friendly variant instead of/on top of the lawyerspeak. If the user doesn't read the ToS that's their problem tbh. Hell, if you're too lazy then in 2024 you can even use some LLM to summarize the thing for ya. These work on any modern device, so no excuses.
Can somebody tell me if it's worth it to start reading this thread from page 1? Good drama or bad drama?
Of course
and this guy wants to sell hosting lol
So it's the battle between "unlimited/buyer" and "fair use/seller". Isn't throttling/rate limit the standard practice for "unlimited" service? Fair use is such an ambiguous term to start with.
Firstly, it does sound like Dasabo has been a bit underhanded in his description of "unlimited". I hate that approach especially when no definitions of fair use are provided, but sadly it's unlikely to go away because most of the providers also do it.
However:
The fact that you don't seem to understand that your VPS might have been compromised by running random VPN software from who-knows-where, makes me think that you're probably not cut out to start providing services to others yourself.
Take a moment to re-read your comments in this thread, and now imagine that all your future customers are saying this to you. How would you handle the situation? If you're just renting a dedi from somewhere with a 1gig port and intend to resell it, as you've asked about in your other threads, you're going to have exactly this problem yourself. It also sounds like you don't even realise this is problematic.