New on LowEndTalk? Please Register and read our Community Rules.
All new Registrations are manually reviewed and approved, so a short delay after registration may occur before your account becomes active.
All new Registrations are manually reviewed and approved, so a short delay after registration may occur before your account becomes active.
HostHatch suspended server and ignores ticket
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
A quote in a thread has no value.
You should be considering making it clear in your contracts (website) cause this is not stated anywhere , neither it's clear.
At the same time avoid mentioning something like this:
It's a pure bull*t, cause there's no standard industry defining 24 hours as response time anywhere, maybe this is your own self made industry
I remain shocked and will consider using providers that don't take this industry standard so strictly or just use a VPN/proxy because you can scan and abuse the network all you want through VPN IPs yet they are not dropped by major hosting providers
Frankly I wonder what this industry standard even does. Mass-scanning "infosec" companies are able to do so on their own ASNs or with lenient providers without giving a f*ck about these reports. Their IPs are well-known yet they still reach my VPS on Hetzner etc.
Does Hetzner even do anything if you ignore a report like that?
>
Nor do we sell the plan in question on our website directly anywhere. It is advertised in one place, and if you choose to specifically not read what you are buying, we cannot help you.
Completely understandable, and a good way to start would be to email your provider(s): How do you handle abuse cases? (preferably before you run into downtime)
I am of course happy to offer our name, once again, to be crucified for people learning general industry standards. It's not the first time.
You think that link is never ever shared?
It's your responsibility to have that info on the website IMO
Take this the right way, but the offers are often extremely good, the link will be passed around a lot. Not everyone will be coming from LET
You're a business, you can't control people talking about you. Both positively and negatively.
You can control your responses and the way you portray yourself.
I haven't been a customer of yours yet and this is my first interaction with you on this forum. I appreciate you responding to my posts but you could be more understanding towards OP and concerns voiced by others. Doesn't mean you have to change your policy, but even just some PR talk about how you feel sorry for the issues this caused OP would go a long way.
That is fair, and I will make sure we make it more clear for any future promotions, including adding more info about support expectations on special plans on the website.
Of course I am sorry that the OP had to face downtime (regardless of whether I am commenting as the business in question or a third party).
Yet there is little we can do to change what happened, or if it will happen again in the future, because once again, this is a case of mismanaged expectations rather than us failing as a business to deliver the promised service.
I prefer being very concise and straightforward in my responses, and you're right, that does not always look good for PR, it also does not mean I have no feelings towards people ending up in bad situations.
you expect people to respond within 24-36 hours while u usually deliver server within 1week - few months, your whole existence is a joke.
wtf is wrong with you.. before you buy a server you'll probably read the offer and the tos. when you buy a server at hosthatch they clearly state in the offer on let the delivery time. additionally it took me 2 seconds to find:
Any of the above being detected will result in an immediate suspension with no prior warning. It may lead to a termination. No refund shall be granted in these cases.
if you don't agree with it, just ignore hosthatch. there are plenty of other providers that fit YOUR needs.
just don't be a dick.
It's even more a joke when you consider that [insert some random company here] only needs [insert very small amount of time] to [insert a totally different action].
All the pointing to HostHatch is great here - however, look from the other side. If the customer would be doing deliberate portscans or hacking attempts, we would also all be like "shut that b*stard down". Taking 36 hours to get a response from the customer is (IMHO) quite a long time and in benefit of the customer. It's the customer's responsibility to check his mail and to respond to it. That way he could have prevented a shutdown.
Ofcourse all kinds of reasons can be given not being able to respond in those 36 hours, but is that the provider's problem?
They usually have an ETA for promotions, and if everything is running smoothly, they deliver within that estimated time.
Maybe your experience differs, but that doesn't seem like an issue I would hold against them.
It would still be reasonable to expect them to respond to ticket realated to the suspended account issues in a timely manner, similar to the response time they expect from clients when responding to abuse reports.
The server is down, because someone pushed suspension button, possibly even due to false positive reports, not because unplanned outage. Promo or not, it's just not okay to keep it down indefinitely because client missed the mail from day and half ago.
I've seen some providers here immediately suspend your server as soon as they receive a report
so 36 hours is a lot for me lol
Reading this thread you understand why hosts stop advertising here. Please don't stop, @hosthatch, I like your deals.
People don't read the fine print and expect premium support for paying summer host pricing.
36 hours is a very reasonable amount of time to expect a response, I've been suspended for abuse (no fault of my own) in 12 hours in the past.
The thing is that people really like free/cheap things (I'm one of them). No wonder someone like RackNerd with that shitty oversold VPS and lack IPv6 sells in waves here.
Hopefully in the future customers will read the threads where they are buying stuff.
No one expects premium support. That narrative is false.
But come on... if a server is suspended for whatever reason, possibly due to a false positive, isn't it reasonable to expect that both sides would want to resolve the issue as soon as possible or at least in a timely manner? A week or something of radio silence with the outage because you overlooked an email from a day and a half ago is not reasonable.
I'm not questioning the suspension - it is what it is. But if you've already pushed the suspension button to shut off someone's server, how hard is it to respond to their inquiry within two days or so?
In cases of false positive reports, the only issue on the client's side is that they didn't respond to the abuse report fast enough, and that's fine - suspension is understandable to prevent potential further damage in case there's an issue.
But from that point on... come on, promo or not, people don't have servers just to keep them idle (well, I'm an exception here), but to use them. Don't keep client hanging with service down for days and days...
I'd agree with you when the customer would have responded in time and the hoster doesn't respond and (auto)shutsdown the VPS.
However, if a customer doesn't reply in the 36 hours, apparantly the VPS isn't that important to him?
My experiences with HH has been good until now, so I give them the benefit of the doubt here.
Not replying to only your current comment, but also the other comments you have made in the past, about "how hard can it be to reply to an x, its not like the unmanaged customers are expecting too much, since they will only contact you when they cannot resolve a problem themselves". And while generally I agree with you on principle, please understand that we do not provide rackspace level managed support with 24/7/365 phone lines to anyone else. It is all unmanaged support. On our standard plans too. And when we say "slow support on these plans", we do mean generally slow support on these plans, where complex cases might take even more time.
I am honestly not sure how your argument is entirely different than "why does it take 7 days to deliver a server, shouldn't it take a click anyway". In principle, yes, but then again, you do not have to buy a special promotion, in case you do not agree with a particular rule of it?
Generally we send a copy of the abuse report and allow 24 hours for a reply, at this time suspend the server.
Of course this is entirely based on the abuse, if it is clear the server has been bought to be used as abuse or is impacting other customers the server will be suspended immediately such as if it has been distributing child abuse content this is locked immediately to prevent any removal of evidence that maybe required by law enforcement at a later date.
Is it common these days that people don't check their email daily (or even often throughout the day)? Is it not a reasonable way to communicate with people anymore? And if it's not, what is?
36 hours not enough, good luck OP with different providers and the 24h / no window at all and instant suspend there :-D
I understand this perfectly, I really do. That's why I differentiate between "Hey, can you do this and that for me?" (sorry... it's unmanaged server, don't expect instant response) and the radio silence after messages like "It seems IPv6 at this location stopped working" or "I don't want to bother you, but the host node at your Vienna location died yesterday, and I am wondering..." These are issues that are out of the client's control, if you understand what I mean. I understand that it may be some complex issue that require time for fix, but it's sucks to be keeped in the dark all that time while your server doesn't work.
I've said numerous times that I don't need host support per se. Many people don't. But do you really think it's reasonable to keep radio silence for days or even a week when the client can't use the server due to something beyond their control? I know it's promo, but still...
By the way, I feel almost bad right now because we had the same disccusions recently and it seems like I always "attack" you, when it's just always about the same issues, while everything else with you works perfectly.
I can't promise, but I'll try to refrain from making these comments as much as possible in the future. No promises, though!
You're misrepresenting the complaint and you know it.
That is an interesting exaggeration to make your point, almost as interesting as the ones that have been made earlier in this thread, such as "is it ok to suspend right away after a false positive report that happens to everyone everyday", when clearly almost none of that is remotely true in this case.
Indeed. It's almost as if people reading what they are buying, and doing their research beforehand, would prevent this problem from happening. I will make sure to do my part and make it more clear in the future though, as I said earlier.
That definitely is not ideal, although your solution so far (counting years now?) has been to "can you just give me this for free because it makes logical sense to me on principle" instead of "I will pay more instead". One of those two solutions is readily available, yet you continue to fight for the other one. I wonder if we will be back in the same place 5 years from now.
I am glad that the service works well for you though. You clearly seem to find enough value in it to continue renewing it every year, even with the shortcomings
Are you sure you’re quoting the right person? Because I’m pretty sure I never said anything like that.
Can you be more specific about what you consider exaggeration in my writing? And how is that related to your statements (which I haven't commented on for sure) regarding suspension times?
For free? I am the last person you can accuse of that. I have never, ever said or meant anything like that.
I bet I am your longest-standing active client, and I always try to fairly describe your strengths and weaknesses, as well as why the strengths still outweigh the weaknesses.
Want me to find some of my past quotes/reviews regarding your service?
Sorry for the confusion, I was comparing your exaggeration of a it taking a week (where its been about 48 hours, nothing close to 168 hours), to some of the other exaggerations made by other people in this thread. I was not accusing you of making those other exaggerations, but making a comparison.
For free, above what you are paying for a promotional service that comes with certain terms, while wanting those extra terms removed, for free*, instead of buying a comparatively higher priced service from the website directly, that comes with those terms removed. Perhaps a better way to explain it would be "for the same price", rather than free.
Typically, in such cases, the datacenter waits for 24 hours to receive a response from you. If no response is received during that time, most data centers will null route the relevant IP, leaving the rest of your IPs unaffected. Currently, your issue lies with support, and they will likely resolve your problem once they review your ticket.
I do once get dmca report at hosthatch where reported link is invalid. They dont even check the reported link contain any file or not. But i responded them within timeframe so they co-operate me. I think 36hours sometimes not enough(you may be sick or out of network) but still it is enough if you have email notification enabled on your phone.
Well, I always prioritize email notifications because they might contain information about my VPS/server. So I can handle it quickly.
Ah, this.
Let's put things into context, shall we? From 48 hours to 168 hours is indeed a big stretch. However, the original post mentioned that after 48 hours still no one had responded, so the issue wasn't resolved in 48 hours, it was still open. I connected this with my personal experience with your hosting company, where sometimes I received a response the next day, sometimes a few days later, or never. Although in the case of "never," I must admit that apart from one instance (which is now water under the bridge), issues were usually resolved within a few days or a week, and I would close the ticket.
To summarize, I used a week just as an illustrative example. It could be less, it could be more. I don't know how many additional days it would take for the original poster's ticket to be answered and the issue clarified.
). Similarly, the more you talk, the more offensive stance you take, and that usually doesn’t help in these discussions. I suggest we end it here.
I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.
I also need to mention that I never criticized your decision to suspend a client. He overlooked the email, and suspensions do happen. I'm not so naive as to not understand that. My concerns are only about what happened afterward - specifically, the lack of response and the client remaining suspended without any follow-up for two days and counting.
I hope this helps where I got "one week". I am admitting, it could be less.
Unless you insist, I don't want to dive us into a rabbit hole of additional explanations, as this could become a never-ending story.
The more I talk, the more it might seem like your service sucks, which is absolutely not the case (do I need to write that in bold? - I think I always said that
By the way, Hosthatch and XenVZ (OpenITC) are the only two hosts I’ve been with for more than 10 years continuously. You can take that as a compliment.
I can understand false positive or from where @hosthatch coming from or stands..... But there's a very unwelcome tone in the replies of @hosthatch.
This makes me uncomfortable a bit because now I don't know what to expect if I buy something from host hatch.
If everything is going well, then that's a mind blowing good deal but if it goes south, it seems it becomes a uphill task.
OP did. Within 10 hours. You still did nothing to help.
Stop making weak ass excuses. You jumped the gun and screwed up here.
Exactly. Funny how it works only one way though. I tried to give them a chance and they failed before we even begun. Garb.
This narrative is false, it has been 2 days since the suspension of the server. How 2 days become 7?
My assumption is that for these "low priority" servers like the one we get here, the ticket might be thrown at the end of the queue if no reply is given on the 36 hours time frame to not bog down helpdesk, but I have no idea what tool they use for ticketing so I can't say for sure.
Anyway, I agree it could have been handled better, but if OP needs the server, I'm not sure why they are not checking their e-mails at least a day or every other day.
Did you conclude this based in one thread? Whenever things went south with me, they have been fixed in a timely manner. Granted that I don't ignore e-mails from hosts that I care about the machine I'm renting with them, but it seems that I'm one of a few.