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How to have my own whitelabel SMTP Relay

nqservicesnqservices Member
edited September 2024 in General

Hi,

I want to provide a SMTP relay for some clients to use on their own websites, to send transactional emails (mostly wordpress websites).

Currently I’m using Mail.Baby, but it is not whitelabel. So I’m looking for a way to continue to use Mail.Baby as SMTP, but giving my clients a whitelabel solution.

In a resumed way, what I need is to have my own small SMTP system, that uses Mail.Baby as external relay.

I remember of using a mailcow server just for this, where mailcow uses Mail.Baby as SMTP relay and then I create on mailcow, my clients SMTP accounts.

But I’m still thinking that there must be better ways. Any ideas or advices?

Thanks

Comments

  • AndreixAndreix Member, Host Rep
    edited September 2024

    You could, in theory, just create a CNAME alias for your domain towards mail.baby relay?

    Eg. mail.mydomain.com -> CNAME -> mx.mail.baby ?!

    PS: only if unencrypted SMTP is used... else may have issues with SSL/TLS.

  • HotmarerHotmarer Member

    Not possible if you want to remove mail.baby from email headers. You will need to bring your own IP space to them probably, with your own RDNS.

  • nqservicesnqservices Member

    @Hotmarer said:
    Not possible if you want to remove mail.baby from email headers. You will need to bring your own IP space to them probably, with your own RDNS.

    No my intention. I know that who want to see will see all that. I just want whitelabel of the mail server domain.

    Thanked by 1Chris222012
  • nqservicesnqservices Member

    @Andreix said:
    You could, in theory, just create a CNAME alias for your domain towards mail.baby relay?

    Eg. mail.mydomain.com -> CNAME -> mx.mail.baby ?!

    PS: only if unencrypted SMTP is used... else may have issues with SSL/TLS.

    Yes, the issue the port 465 and 587 SSL/TLS

  • AndreixAndreix Member, Host Rep

    @nqservices said:

    @Andreix said:
    You could, in theory, just create a CNAME alias for your domain towards mail.baby relay?

    Eg. mail.mydomain.com -> CNAME -> mx.mail.baby ?!

    PS: only if unencrypted SMTP is used... else may have issues with SSL/TLS.

    Yes, the issue the port 465 and 587 SSL/TLS

    Well... we had some customers in the past that we just sold them a VM bundled with 4-6 IP addresses so they can use that for load balancing emails.

    If you're exclusively using it for legit communication mails, I could potentially help you with this in US, but is not gonna be really lowend.

  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran

    These guys do full white labeling: https://spamwall.com

    The control panel they give you, the reverse DNS, everything is white labeled. Of course, that means you have to build your reputation yourself.

  • techdragontechdragon Member

    @jar said:
    These guys do full white labeling: https://spamwall.com

    The control panel they give you, the reverse DNS, everything is white labeled. Of course, that means you have to build your reputation yourself.

    Do you offer any white label services or just reseller options?

  • XrmaddnessXrmaddness Member

    @techdragon said:

    @jar said:
    These guys do full white labeling: https://spamwall.com

    The control panel they give you, the reverse DNS, everything is white labeled. Of course, that means you have to build your reputation yourself.

    Do you offer any white label services or just reseller options?

    They have some documentation about white labelling with their services: https://mxroutedocs.com/branding/intro/

  • HotmarerHotmarer Member

    @Xrmaddness said:

    @techdragon said:

    @jar said:
    These guys do full white labeling: https://spamwall.com

    The control panel they give you, the reverse DNS, everything is white labeled. Of course, that means you have to build your reputation yourself.

    Do you offer any white label services or just reseller options?

    They have some documentation about white labelling with their services: https://mxroutedocs.com/branding/intro/

    But jar don't allow transactional/marketing emails.

  • techdragontechdragon Member

    @Xrmaddness said:

    They have some documentation about white labelling with their services: https://mxroutedocs.com/branding/intro/

    Implies just branded reseller like adding a logo to DirectAdmin. License check and or upstream will just advertise your provider for free to customers. Hopefully, they can clarify.

  • nqservicesnqservices Member

    First, thanks all for the ideas!

    I want something as simple as possible and not to handle/manage delivery issues. Besides the whitelabel component, the ability to change SMTP provider is a need. Take the scenario:

    I have 50 WordPress clients and give each one a Mail.Baby SMTP account for them to setup on their WordPress. First problem here is the whitelabel. Instead of giving them relay.mailbaby.net I want to give them relay.mydomain.com.

    Second problem is if in the future I want to change SMTP provider, from Mail.Baby to other (ex: MailChannels), I will have to contact the 50 clients to send them new SMTP relay details for them to setup.

    If I have my own relay, take for example a VPS with MailCow, I could change SMTP relay on MailCow from Mail.Baby to any other, whenever I want. Clients will not have to change anything. For each client I will, in this case have to create an email account on Mailcow. Did not try this, do not know if will work.

    Any ideas?

  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran

    @techdragon said:

    @Xrmaddness said:

    They have some documentation about white labelling with their services: https://mxroutedocs.com/branding/intro/

    Implies just branded reseller like adding a logo to DirectAdmin. License check and or upstream will just advertise your provider for free to customers. Hopefully, they can clarify.

    We don't intend to totally cut ourselves out of everything. Users would be able to find out we were the provider if they were intelligent enough to go hunting for the information. Cutting us out entirely at every level would remove any benefit from the IP reputation we've built.

    Thanked by 1edrebe
  • nqservicesnqservices Member

    Hey @jar

    With MXRoute, can I using 1 domain, create for example 50 email accounts ([email protected]) to be used on WordPress websites?

    I know you have a 300 e-mail hour/limt, and that is more than enough.

  • techdragontechdragon Member

    @jar said:

    We don't intend to totally cut ourselves out of everything. Users would be able to find out we were the provider if they were intelligent enough to go hunting for the information. Cutting us out entirely at every level would remove any benefit from the IP reputation we've built.

    I completely understand, hence the question. I don't expect anyone to give away their product or service. Full white label solutions are extremely rare for obvious reasons.

    Thanked by 1jar
  • mgcAnamgcAna Member, Host Rep
    edited September 2024

    Setup your own mail server, give that mail server address to the client, in turn that mail server will use mail.baby. It will give you certain level of own branding. Cname their SPF ips to your domain.

    However,

    • There will be headers added from mail.baby as @Hotmarer pointed
    • Any bounce mail will clearly give away mail.baby
    • Ofcourse their IPs
    Thanked by 2techdragon kkrajk
  • nqservicesnqservices Member

    @mgcAna said:
    Setup your own mail server, give that mail server address to the client, in turn that mail server will use mail.baby. It will give you certain level of own branding. Cname their SPF ips to your domain.

    However,

    • There will be headers added from mail.baby as @Hotmarer pointed
    • Any bounce mail will clearly give away mail.baby
    • Ofcourse their IPs

    Thas is my initial idea. Setup a VPS with MailCow and use Mail.Baby as Relay. As said before I just need whitelabel for the relay domain I give to the client (in this case MailCow). The rest, client can see Mail.Baby brand/ips. No problem.

  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran

    @nqservices said:
    Hey @jar

    With MXRoute, can I using 1 domain, create for example 50 email accounts ([email protected]) to be used on WordPress websites?

    I know you have a 300 e-mail hour/limt, and that is more than enough.

    Definitely. Very common use case.

  • nqservicesnqservices Member

    @jar said:

    @nqservices said:
    Hey @jar

    With MXRoute, can I using 1 domain, create for example 50 email accounts ([email protected]) to be used on WordPress websites?

    I know you have a 300 e-mail hour/limt, and that is more than enough.

    Definitely. Very common use case.

    Ok, great! So if I give a client 1 email address, using my own domain ([email protected]) so he can use on it’s WordPress as SMTP, what DNS records should he add on his domain DNS?

    Just add to the SPF record “include:mxroute.com” or need DKIM? Best SPF strategy for this case?

  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran

    @nqservices said:

    @jar said:

    @nqservices said:
    Hey @jar

    With MXRoute, can I using 1 domain, create for example 50 email accounts ([email protected]) to be used on WordPress websites?

    I know you have a 300 e-mail hour/limt, and that is more than enough.

    Definitely. Very common use case.

    Ok, great! So if I give a client 1 email address, using my own domain ([email protected]) so he can use on it’s WordPress as SMTP, what DNS records should he add on his domain DNS?

    Just add to the SPF record “include:mxroute.com” or need DKIM? Best SPF strategy for this case?

    You'd get mildly unique DNS information in an email after account provision with us, that would apply to any domain you add.

  • TimboJonesTimboJones Member

    @nqservices said:

    @jar said:

    @nqservices said:
    Hey @jar

    With MXRoute, can I using 1 domain, create for example 50 email accounts ([email protected]) to be used on WordPress websites?

    I know you have a 300 e-mail hour/limt, and that is more than enough.

    Definitely. Very common use case.

    Ok, great! So if I give a client 1 email address, using my own domain ([email protected]) so he can use on it’s WordPress as SMTP, what DNS records should he add on his domain DNS?

    Just add to the SPF record “include:mxroute.com” or need DKIM? Best SPF strategy for this case?

    https://mxroutedocs.com/branding/customhostnames/

    But you'd use the WordPress domain. It would be silly to use another domain otherwise it's suspicious AF.

  • edrebeedrebe Member

    @nqservices said: If I have my own relay, take for example a VPS with MailCow, I could change SMTP relay on MailCow from Mail.Baby to any other, whenever I want. Clients will not have to change anything. For each client I will, in this case have to create an email account on Mailcow. Did not try this, do not know if will work.

    💡 To do this you need to modify Postfix (main.cf) in MailCow (I don't use it).
    ✔️ Tested successfully with KeyHelp control panel with Mxroute and SMTP2Go as relayhost.

  • nqservicesnqservices Member
    edited September 2024

    Hi @jar

    Does mxroute mantain a SPF without Mail.Baby IPs? I’m asking because I already have Mail.Baby on my SPF and do not want duplicate content. Also I’m reaching the 10 lookup limit.

    I know I can just remove the Mail.Baby record and only use mxroute SPF, since it already includes Mail.Baby IPs… but in case mxroute stops/removes Mail.Baby without notice, there will be issues.

    I see here that mxroute has 3 SPF:
    https://accounts.mxroute.com/index.php?/news/view/22/urgent--fix-your-spf-/

    I know this is not common. Just asking and thinking on the best way to keep my SPF.

    Thanks

  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran

    @nqservices said:
    Hi @jar

    Does mxroute mantain a SPF without Mail.Baby IPs? I’m asking because I already have Mail.Baby on my SPF and do not want duplicate content. Also I’m reaching the 10 lookup limit.

    I know I can just remove the Mail.Baby record and only use mxroute SPF, since it already includes Mail.Baby IPs… but in case mxroute stops/removes Mail.Baby without notice, there will be issues.

    I see here that mxroute has 3 SPF:
    https://accounts.mxroute.com/index.php?/news/view/22/urgent--fix-your-spf-/

    I know this is not common. Just asking and thinking on the best way to keep my SPF.

    Thanks

    We don't. But if you don't mind a low and currently unforeseeable chance that you would miss a change to our SPF that you might need, you could just add 136.175.108.0/22. We're only using the first /24 of that and I currently have no plans to use a different range as mail.baby is less expensive than the way I'd do it.

    Thanked by 1nqservices
  • nqservicesnqservices Member
    edited September 2024

    @jar That seems great! Thanks

    Anyone knows a monitoring service that allows to track TXT DNS changes? That way I could just monitor mxroute SPF to know when/if it changes.

    Been looking into UptimeKuma, but I do not think it can do it.

  • quicksilver03quicksilver03 Member, Host Rep

    @nqservices said:
    Anyone knows a monitoring service that allows to track TXT DNS changes? That way I could just monitor mxroute SPF to know when/if it changes.

    I don't know about services, but I use Prometheus and the Blackbox Exporter with rules like this:

    dns_check:
  prober: dns
  dns:
    preferred_ip_protocol: 'ip4'
    query_name: 'auth-check.ptrdns.net'
    query_type: 'TXT'
    valid_rcodes:
      - NOERROR
    validate_answer_rrs:
      fail_if_not_matches_regexp:
        - "authdnsok"

    A scrape_config queries the authoritative DNS at fixed intervals, and I get an alert if the query fails or if the result doesn't match the regexp.

    Thanked by 1nqservices
  • George_FusionedGeorge_Fusioned Member

    If I have my own relay, take for example a VPS with MailCow, I could change SMTP relay on MailCow from Mail.Baby to any other, whenever I want. Clients will not have to change anything. For each client I will, in this case have to create an email account on Mailcow. Did not try this, do not know if will work.

    Any ideas?

    Have a look at Postal: https://github.com/postalserver/postal

This discussion has been closed.