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Edge Centres / QuadraNet owes us $13,000
I wanted to share an ongoing issue our company is facing with QuadraNet, which is now under new ownership by Edge Centres. We’re dealing with a significant financial mishap where we were wrongly billed around $13,000 for a server we had canceled years ago. This has turned into a rather frustrating ordeal. (Note that in TrustPilot, there is a review from 2023, by someone claiming the exact same problem, being charged for months without notice for a canceled server.)
Our accountant spotted the error during a routine check, noticing we were still being charged for this server long after the cancellation. We reached out to QuadraNet to address this as soon as we noticed.
Response from QuadraNet: Initially, it seemed promising. Michael Lowe, the Chief Revenue Officer, acknowledged the error and mentioned that it was due to an oversight with a PayPal subscription that wasn't canceled when we terminated the server. He proposed a repayment plan to refund what was taken from us. Please note that this was not a simple “oversight”, as mentioned above, other customers faced the same problem in the past. So they knew about this issue but it kept happening, and with us, to the tube of $13,000.
What's Happening Now: Despite Michael Lowe's promises, we've seen no action. The process has been dragged out, and our repeated attempts to escalate the matter have not resulted in any progress. They have not replied to our emails for several weeks, and we have not received any repayment. They shut down our two servers without notice, causing us further financial damage. Since we're based in Europe, taking legal action is more difficult and may cost more than what they owe us.
Since Edge Centres has recently acquired QuadraNet, they are now responsible for handling this. We expected that this change might bring a swift resolution, considering a new management might want to clean up such issues. However, that hasn’t been the case.
It’s quite disheartening. We trusted them to handle this professionally, but the lack of urgency or seeming indifference has been disappointing. It’s not just about the money; it’s about the principle and the need for businesses to operate transparently and responsibly. We strongly recommend anyone reading this to avoid any type of business with either QuadraNet or Edge Centers.
Has anyone else here dealt with similar issues? Any advice on how to get this resolved more effectively would be greatly appreciated. It feels like we’re at a standstill and not sure what else can be done to expedite this. In the meantime, again, we recommend that you avoid doing business with these companies.
Comments
managing your paypal subscription is your responsibility. They CANNOT charge your PayPal, only YOU can instruct YOUR payment to send X amount to them every month. It is called subscription and it is out of their control.
This is absolutely false: https://developer.paypal.com/docs/api/subscriptions/v1/#subscriptions_suspend
Both sides of the transaction have the ability to manage the subscription. The only reason people believe this BS is because the shitty WHMCS integrations they use instead of hiring competent devs don't do it properly.
it's not out of their control to keep money they have received by mistake, lol
They can't legally keep the money, and they can't dispute your refund request in any way when the money has been transferred mistakenly.
The recovery process should therefore be straightforward and without too many additional costs.
When it comes to legal costs, I think they've pretty much shot themselves in the foot with the following in their terms:
Consult a local debt collection agency or lawyer.
(Be aware that the terms on their website appear to have been edited in a hurry, so remember to check the Wayback Machine and provide all relevant versions to the lawyer.)
"Our accountant spotted the error during a routine check, noticing we were still being charged for this server long after the cancellation."
I'd assume the OP manages a sizable business where financial slip-ups like this are more common. I don't blame the OP; QuadraNet is accountable for this issue if OP's story is factual.
Only if the provider uses billing agreements can they cancel the monthly draw from their end. There is no way for the merchant to cancel a 'recurring payment' setup by a customer. This is the exact reason why we removed PayPal subscriptions.
Hopefully QuadraNet refunds the money in good faith, but they weren't 'billing' the OP every month. OP had a PayPal subscription setup to send $X to QuadraNet on a certain day of the month, every month, and never cancelled that recurring payment.
I also had paypal subscriptions for some services and when i canceled the service/contract i got a message from paypal that the merchant canceled the subscription/auto-billing.
Litigate. No other option. Chop sue and make an example from them! No, really, if you have been robbed - call the police.
Bear in mind transactions have a maximum of 180 days to be claimed at PayPal by any of the parties. So, they can only claim and recover the last 180 days of transactions and after that, it's toast. Even chargebacks to banks have a technical max claim limit.
Since the OP says the server got cancelled "years ago", they won't be able to recover anything at PayPal except for the last 180 days. It's also difficult to adequately refund the amount due to cashflow surely having "overwritten" a fair share of those 13.000USD by now.
The fact that the provider proposes a repayment plan says to me that they may not have immediately ready the 13.000USD in cash at their bank accounts, to refund the customer. The substantial delay when answering also says me just that. And transferring such a huge sum would always give some bells and whistles at any bank for money laundering concerns, where the US may have strict or stricter rules (usually everything around 5k or 10k), let alone having to justify that for billing purposes and correct multiple statements with all penalties QuadraNet could face at the revenue service for correcting them...
This will be very difficult for the OP, I won't lie. Let's hope a good arrangement can be done here.
It blows my mind how people can unknowingly be making payments for hundreds of dollars a month, and not realize for years. I check my credit card transactions basically every day or two and have push notifications for every payment I make. Would recommend anyone to the same... Most bank/cc apps for iOS/Android have transaction notifications with a $$ amount threshold option.
It can be easy to overlook if you're making payments to the same company for a different reason. I recently found out that I was paying $9/month to Virtualizor for a subscription I had cancelled almost a year ago, but I didn't realize it for a while because I had subscribed to their Softaculous service (which I did not cancel).
I believe it's possible to cancel it from the provider side. WHMCS has a feature from what I recall, but it needs to be manually activated for some reason. I agree that any payment like this should be refunded, at minimum for the past 6 months.
Money transferred by mistake is not your money. You cannot legally withhold repayment. However, there is a statute of limitations, which is at least 3 years depending on the state / local law.
There would be a few extra steps needed for a vendor to spot a PayPal subscription, especially when the cancellation is done in a portal.
The customer cancels and then spots it early enough just to get angry and leave a 1-star review. Or the customer spots it 12 billing cycles later and then we need to wire out the refund because there are time limits to PayPal refunds.
We removed all PayPal subscription options for this exact reason.
I'm guilty of this as well. Was over paying them hundreds a month. Their invoicing system is such a mess and made it almost impossible to really determine how long it had been going on for.
Had to cancel every subscription with them and never got credited for the overpayments.
It's normal for regular busy person, but it's incompetence from a paid accountant.
If you hand cash to someone without them expecting it and then call the cops and say they robbed you, you're a stupid cunt.
Maybe they could buy a list of emails with the money
For your information: As of the time of this post's publication (August 27, 2024), we have received 6 refunds from PayPal for overcharges that occurred within the last 60 days, but they still owe us more than $10,000.
It means if it was monthly, you have been paying from last 26 months.. ?
When you run a large business, with a lot of employees and people with access to make payments who do not consult others, it is very easy for this to happen.
I have used Paypal for well over one quarter large over twenty or so years, it is actually a very reliable payment gateway and I've programmed several interfaces and Apis for it as well. This case was very obviously the customers oversight. Even several replies to the Op that have an agreeable viewpoint have very clearly admitted fault and guilt in similar oversight, I don't know if people think we can't read or what But......yeah you need to manage your subscriptions, it actually is your responsibility per ToS. I just wanted to offer advice that working with the company who seems to have already presented what should be an amiable solution, That was professional and proper of them, Pointing out other problems in relation to this is very unprofessional of you, learn from the experience and Accept the path that already has presented a money back solution.
Sounds like you're incompetent https://developer.paypal.com/docs/api/subscriptions/v1/#subscriptions_suspend
Do you have Michael's number? I've spoken to him on the phone. We're also a QN customer.
Been trying to reach Michael for weeks at this point about new racks
While I do agree that they owe you the money, customers should 100% feel and accept personal responsibility for their PayPal subscriptions. While yes the provider can disable it and one hopes that they do, this story is common enough in the industry that word should reach every dark corner: always double check it yourself and never trust the provider to do it. Failure to take responsibility over this either means to be uninformed or to be more committed to the principle of the matter than making sure their money is taken care of. But you can care about the principle of it while still making the effort yourself. What should or shouldn't be is #2, what is and will be is #1.
So let no one be uninformed: PayPal subscriptions are all too often not cancelled by the provider and everyone using them should be auditing them. Tell your friends.
Given QN just got bought out it's likely up for dispute who owns this liability. The new owners or the old ones.
Francisco