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Searching The Hetzner of Netherland
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Searching The Hetzner of Netherland

Hello,

Searching The Hetzner of Netherland

Which NL Company can match the price/quality of hetzner?

Searching ax52 :
AMD Ryzen™ 7 7700 , 64 GB DDR5 , 1 TB NVMe SSD (Gen4) ,
Garantierte Bandbreite : 1 GBit/s
76,16 €

Regards

Comments

  • emghemgh Member

    @JohnGrag said: Which NL Company can match the price/quality of hetzner?

    I might be wrong here, but I'll go ahead and take a guess:
    None.

  • labzelabze Member, Patron Provider

    In terms of hardware spec I don't think you will find anyone that matches. On top of my head the closest might be Worldstream.

  • alt_alt_ Member

    I'm not sure if you'll be able to find any, but you can try reaching out to @Worldstream_Frank or @Clouvider via DM to request a quotation.

  • conceptconcept Member

    Hetzner and Quality? idk about that
    They are cheap.
    AMD Ryzen Dedicated Servers aren't that common in NL. Often Xeon. 7000 series is even more rare.

  • febryanvaldofebryanvaldo Member
    edited May 2023

    Nope, you will never find it. So far just found this spec, @spectraip

    Thanked by 1Talistech
  • Smith42Smith42 Member

    It is impossible to price match to Hetzner at all, regardless of host or location. Hetzner has gone down the route of overselling pretty much every aspect of hosting on a massive scale, and it is working for them because they go to great lengths to weed out customers who abuse their services.

    Dutch hosts in comparison, are way more tolerant to abuse, have usually way better network infra and are far easier to work with as well, but that generally means you will pay 3-4x as much as Hetzner's pricing. You'd be better off just buying the hardware and colocating in Netherlands. Most hosts will not offer desktop-grade hardware, primarily because they will not get warranty from the supplier as using them in a datacenter setting often voids the warranty.

  • labzelabze Member, Patron Provider

    @Smith42 said: Hetzner has gone down the route of overselling pretty much every aspect of hosting on a massive scale

    How do they oversell dedicated servers?

    From my own experience I'd say Hetzner is one of the providers who provides the most consistent experience. Having had their cloud services for years, I consistently get good results, almost never see CPU steal nor had any downtimes at all. I have tried plenty of other estabilshed providers, and none have matched the consistency and performance of Hetzner offerings.

    Is Hetzner the highest quality host? No, probrably not. But I'd be hard pressed to mention another host of same quality that even remotely matches Hetzner in price.

    Thanked by 3Erisa mrTom Ed_Chd
  • emghemgh Member

    Hetzner has a huge advantage nobody here has.

    Enourmous datacenters, owned by them.

    A huge client base ready to spend their money.

    They could be selling the same stuff that any random OVH reseller on here sells, for the same price, and have a profit margin that far exceed the LET host.

    Economics of scale is so unfair🥲

  • hostarishostaris Member, Patron Provider

    Yeah.. you won’t find prices competing with Hetzner anywhere else.

  • jlet88jlet88 Member
    edited May 2023

    @emgh said:
    Economics of scale is so unfair🥲

    I wonder why you think that's unfair? That's market economics. That's a good thing, and they deserve to be able to buy in bulk because they built their business very intelligently over many years and they have been running it fairly well (which is debatable for some people), and the hardware OEMs are making a big profit too. Everyone benefits as long as Hetzner operates their business well. It drives down entry costs for consumers who want their services, increases competition pressure on other providers, and in general increases economies of scale for other providers too. But with that size and scale, in order to be efficient, there are very specific limitations that Hetzner has, and it's very difficult for Hetzner to maintain their market position.

    Keep in mind that with all that economy of scale advantage, you get many disadvantages too -- such as -- you are limited to their specific AUP (which you may not agree with), their strict TOS (which may be terrible for you), their data centers (which are far from ideal), their network (and uplinks, which are far from great), their jurisdiction (which is far from great for certain content), their legal framework (which may not be compatible with what you want to do), their other general policies (which could treat you like a "number" instead of a real human being), their business model (which requires scaling at all times), their customer support model (which may be impersonal), and to the specific point of the OP, they don't exist in The Netherlands.

    I like Hetzner, but I definitely wouldn't put certain content on their servers FOR SURE, not to mention the other disadvantages above. I'd definitely prefer other providers in other jurisdictions on other networks, and that's something I understand I'll have to pay more money for.

    Also, in the end, you usually get what you pay for. If you want the advantages of The Netherlands, you'll have to pay for it. Which is fine, because there are still plenty of good affordable NL hosting providers, and as has been mentioned, Worldstream has pretty good prices so they might be a good fit, and they have a better AUP and jurisdiction IMO.

    Anyway, I always find it interesting when people use the word "unfair" because it can also be looked at from different perspectives... for example, the hardware OEM providers that sell Hetzner their hardware ship TONS of hardware to them, so they don't need to mark up the hardware very much, and they still make money hand over fist. And those very same hardware OEM providers wouldn't think it's "fair" to be forced to have the same small markup for smaller customers that only need a couple servers at at time. What's fair about that? By comparison, they have to do LESS work to sell LOTS more hardware to Hetzner. So they can charge less per hardware item to Hetzner. That's actually fair.

    Also, wouldn't the people who spent their careers building Hetzner think it is "unfair" if every other hosting provider everywhere else on the planet got the exact same purchasing power Hetzner had, regardless of how small they are? That doesn't even make sense. And on the flip side of that, you wouldn't say it is "unfair" that Hetzner doesn't have the even better purchasing power of Microsoft or Google or Amazon that buy orders of magnitude more hardware components than Hetzner does.

    Anyway, economics of scale is a good thing for many reasons. The fact that the OP, as a consumer buying just ONE server, can get an AMD Ryzen 7700 + 64 GB DDR5 + 1 TB NVMe SSD for 76 € is AMAZING, and if he's okay with ALL THE OTHER LIMITATIONS with Hetzner, isn't that a good thing for him?

    Just a thought. Cheers to you of course. We tend to agree on a number of things. I'm just reacting to the word "unfair". :smile: Nothing personal.

    Hope everyone has a nice day.

    Thanked by 1emgh
  • A few years ago I got a server via LET (4Gb/EUR 2.80 or so) from Bradler & Krantz. Not sure they still do special offer here, but the server runs very smooth. My server location is NL.
    https://www.providerdienste.de/de/cloud-server/

  • emghemgh Member

    @jlet88

    I don't want to be rude because you really took the time there, but that last part about it being unfair was more like a "showing of condolences" to LET hosts basically making no profit while offering deals that cost more than the big guys.

    I don't actually believe it's unfair.

    Thanked by 1jlet88
  • jlet88jlet88 Member

    @emgh said:
    @jlet88

    I don't want to be rude because you really took the time there, but that last part about it being unfair was more like a "showing of condolences" to LET hosts basically making no profit while offering deals that cost more than the big guys.

    I don't actually believe it's unfair.

    I'm sure we'd both agree that the hosting business in general is a tough business, and I tremendously respect the LET providers. I hope my comments didn't come off as dismissive of LET providers. I'm blown away by them - and grateful for them - and I'm thrilled with some of the amazing deals that are offered here on LET. I've been the beneficiary of many great deals here, and it doesn't escape me that those LET providers are probably making pennies on some of these deals... and in some cases maybe even losing money to gain customers.

    However, that is the nature of this very tough business. Really, it's the nature of any business, especially highly saturated and competitive businesses, and every small business owner has to weigh all the risks and benefits of what they're doing with their time, right? I have to do that with my own business, and sometimes I lose money and it sucks and is very difficult for me. So I know how that feels on a personal level. I try not to let my clients know that though - I just keep on trying to deliver a good product for them, deliver what I said I would deliver, and eventually, over the long haul, I hope I will recoup the loss and eventually make a profit. Repeat business for me is key, so it is common in my business to break even or lose a little for the first round, but make money from a client over time. I imagine that is a similar model for some LET providers here.

    LET providers, like any other business owners, should theoretically have a solid business plan of how they balance all their resources with their customers' needs and calculate the risks, costs of marketing, costs of building their customer base, etc., and ultimately generate profit margins so they can build their business and make a decent living. No LET provider should be a charity -- they should be out there to build a successful business, and I hope for the success of all LET providers.

    It's not easy for any business owner, and sometimes we make mistakes and it hurts, so again, I hope my comments didn't come off as dismissive of any LET providers.

    As for comparing and competing with Hetzner, for example, I tried to make it clear in my second paragraph of my prior post that Hetzner has a bunch of negatives too. So while they rightly have the advantage of economies of scale, they have many drawbacks too. This list of drawbacks makes it very possible for LET providers to compete against Hetzner... to capitalize on and leverage Hetzner's shortcomings to their advantage and provide services that solve those shortcomings. If a LET provider is competing purely on cost, however, it will be very hard to compete against Hetzner. But if a LET provider is competing in areas where Hetzner falls short (and there are many shortcomings!), LET providers have a much stronger case to succeed in the market, which I hope they do.

    For example, the OP brought up a preference for NL hosting -- that's a perfect opportunity for someone to compete against Hetzner. Perhaps they won't be able to match exact computer specs for the exact machine at Hetzner prices, but they can perhaps get close but offer the NL location, which is what the OP wanted. LET can shine for options like that.

    In my case, for example, I prefer hosting providers with specific AUP and jurisdictions, and LET is the perfect place to come to find great options that let me find services which match my needs. I may not get such powerful hardware for the Hetzner cost, but I get the AUP and jurisdiction I prefer. LET wins in that case for me.

    So I hope I'm not coming off negative or disrespectful about LET providers, but actually rather trying to be enthusiastic and honestly grateful for it. And if the OP is looking for an alternative to Hetzner, TBH LET is the best place to find options. Apologies if I wasn't clear about that, and hope that clarifies a little. Cheers!

  • hostarishostaris Member, Patron Provider

    Holy. You must have some time on your hands to write all of that :smile:

  • ServCityServCity Member
    edited May 2023

    [Offer text without host rep tag]

    Mod edit (angstrom): removed

  • HypereHypere Member, Host Rep

    @JohnGrag said:
    Hello,

    Searching The Hetzner of Netherland

    Which NL Company can match the price/quality of hetzner?

    Searching ax52 :
    AMD Ryzen™ 7 7700 , 64 GB DDR5 , 1 TB NVMe SSD (Gen4) ,
    Garantierte Bandbreite : 1 GBit/s
    76,16 €

    Regards

    I can offer this in Amsterdam, but it won’t be anywhere near Hetzner price

  • jlet88jlet88 Member

    @hostaris said:
    Holy. You must have some time on your hands to write all of that :smile:

    Not that much time. But I do write a lot. :# o:)

  • @emgh said:
    Hetzner has a huge advantage nobody here has.

    Enourmous datacenters, owned by them.

    A huge client base ready to spend their money.

    They could be selling the same stuff that any random OVH reseller on here sells, for the same price, and have a profit margin that far exceed the LET host.

    Economics of scale is so unfair🥲

    Fast and easy deploy is what makes Hetzner better than OVH imo.

    Thanked by 1emgh
  • Other companies sell what Hetzner sells for 3x the price with even lower specs (usually less RAM and SSD). This doesn’t make sense and I don’t think there’s any reason that can justify this.

    Hetzner providing top notch service with cheapest prices in the world while paying 50% in taxes to German government.

    What makes others so expensive then?

    Look at Reliablesite for example; a configuration you’d get for $120 in Hetzner costs at least $300-$350 in Reliablesite. What is the reason behind this $200+ difference? And they’re about on par in quality so no difference on that.

    I know they’re US location but that still doesn’t justify the price.

  • dataforestdataforest Member, Patron Provider

    @anbelevebel said:
    Hetzner providing top notch service with cheapest prices in the world while paying 50% in taxes to German government.

    What makes others so expensive then?

    As far as I know, there is a CPU limit of 90W, so you can calculate the power consumption very well. If you activate the Turbo of the CPU, so that you can really use the CPU completely, then the CPU alone takes 200W+ and that makes it more expensive.

    What is strange about Hetzner are the prices for additional NVMe's:

    3.84 TB NVMe SSD Datacenter Edition - 48.79 EUR incl. 19% VAT at Hetzner - for our upcoming line with U.2 NVMe's (the same ones Hetzner uses) we would be at 20.38 EUR incl. 19% VAT. So if you want to use the CPU to its full potential (no power consumption limit) and need some additional memory, there are many providers where you can get cheaper.

    We can now offer much better prices through better purchasing, elimination of supply chains, use of water cooling for high-frequency CPUs and so on, but I still find the new Ryzens at Hetzner not really cheap if it is no longer an off-the-shelf product, but is customized or you just need the performance of the CPU.

    Even if only partially comparable, but times a Geekbench of a 7950X: https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/1138135

    Thanked by 1Patriarch
  • anbelevebelanbelevebel Member
    edited May 2023

    @PHP_Friends said:

    @anbelevebel said:
    Hetzner providing top notch service with cheapest prices in the world while paying 50% in taxes to German government.

    What makes others so expensive then?

    We can now offer much better prices through better purchasing, elimination of supply chains, use of water cooling for high-frequency CPUs and so on, but I still find the new Ryzens at Hetzner not really cheap if it is no longer an off-the-shelf product, but is customized or you just need the performance of the CPU.

    Even if only partially comparable, but times a Geekbench of a 7950X: https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/1138135

    How they’re not really cheap? Are there other providers who sell same specs (especially Ryzen line) cheaper than Hetzner?

    I agree about additional hardware prices though. It appears they’ve increased their prices.

  • dataforestdataforest Member, Patron Provider

    As written: if you need the full power of the CPU or customize your server, you will be cheap at other providers, especially since you can't get the power limit out at Hetzner and never get the full power of the CPU. As a rule, you will not be able to reach the turbo clock.

  • CesslorCesslor Member

    @PHP_Friends

    You can unlock the "full" speed on most of the hetzner CPUs with XTU/ryzen master. The real issue is the cooling then, most of their servers have issues with thermal throttling and tend to crash at high CPU loads. I got around 250~ dedicated servers at hetzner currently and tested basically every dedicated server they offered for the past years. The current i5-13500 won't boost properly at all - no matter what OS or "tuning" you try to apply. 9900k was the worst out of all, insane temps and it was literally impossible to reach the maximum boost clock for extended durations. I monitor the CPU temps on all of my servers, if you buy 50x the same server they all behave differently and some will overheat while others won't. I do not go for any "high end" CPUs anymore, I wonder how the i9-13900k is doing 🤔

  • dataforestdataforest Member, Patron Provider

    @Cesslor said:
    @PHP_Friends

    You can unlock the "full" speed on most of the hetzner CPUs with XTU/ryzen master. The real issue is the cooling then, most of their servers have issues with thermal throttling and tend to crash at high CPU loads. I got around 250~ dedicated servers at hetzner currently and tested basically every dedicated server they offered for the past years. The current i5-13500 won't boost properly at all - no matter what OS or "tuning" you try to apply. 9900k was the worst out of all, insane temps and it was literally impossible to reach the maximum boost clock for extended durations.

    Ah okay, good to know. I got my info from a youtube video:

    I monitor the CPU temps on all of my servers, if you buy 50x the same server they all behave differently and some will overheat while others won't. I do not go for any "high end" CPUs anymore, I wonder how the i9-13900k is doing 🤔

    Yes, because of that we cool them with water in short term, but we also have 2U 240W air coolers which cool the CPUs down very well.

  • ralfralf Member

    @jlet88 said:
    I like Hetzner, but I definitely wouldn't put certain content on their servers FOR SURE, not to mention the other disadvantages above. I'd definitely prefer other providers in other jurisdictions on other networks, and that's something I understand I'll have to pay more money for.

    It was probably obvious to you what you meant when you wrote this, but I just thought I'd ask for clarification on this as it's a bit ambiguous...

    Do you mean things that are illegal under German or EU law? Or things where it's hard to check for DMCA? Or just that you don't trust the data centre security and you wouldn't trust your data to remain private?

  • As I see, Hetzner is limiting the CPU performance. Why not compare price per performance? Even in such a situation, no provider will provide such a price.

    Example: Intel Core i5-13500 have a PassMark score of 30102, translating to €1.46 Price/Passmark

  • jlet88jlet88 Member
    edited May 2023

    @ralf said:

    @jlet88 said:
    I like Hetzner, but I definitely wouldn't put certain content on their servers FOR SURE, not to mention the other disadvantages above. I'd definitely prefer other providers in other jurisdictions on other networks, and that's something I understand I'll have to pay more money for.

    It was probably obvious to you what you meant when you wrote this, but I just thought I'd ask for clarification on this as it's a bit ambiguous...

    Do you mean things that are illegal under German or EU law? Or things where it's hard to check for DMCA? Or just that you don't trust the data centre security and you wouldn't trust your data to remain private?

    I went off topic TBH and took issue with the word "unfair" and related ideas, which I regret wasting the time going into. And I'm not sure it's helpful to anyone for me to go into detail why I wouldn't host certain content at Hetzner. While I'm tempted to answer in detail, I'll go off topic again. :D

    But with respect to the OP, one of my other points (that I poorly expressed) was that people need to assess their own set of hosting needs themselves, and it could be that Hetzner is a poor fit (or maybe a great fit!) for what they want to do. The OP mentioned NL, so starting with geographic location of data centers is important to him, therefore a corollary of what I was trying to say is that it's not very important IMO how GREAT a deal Hetzner offers if they don't offer the right product in the right country where he wants to host. Only he can determine how important that factor is to him, though.

    As for German, EU law, DMCA, security, etc... all those could be factors for other people to choose whether or not to host with Hetzner. In my case, I do use Hetzner for some content, but not for other content. No need to read into it and assume anything. My list of reasons is long and boring. What really matters is your reasons. I suggest everyone just familiarize themselves with the AUP, T/C, and legal policies of whatever hosting providers they are considering to use, and decide what's the right fit for them. The good news, as I stated in my second post, is that if you want to find alternatives to Hetzner, you've come to the right place. LET has every kind of option you can imagine, lots of smart people to help you decide, and I'm very grateful for the good providers and deals I've found here!

    Cheers!

  • CalmDownCalmDown Member
    edited May 2023

    @Cesslor said:
    @PHP_Friends

    You can unlock the "full" speed on most of the hetzner CPUs with XTU/ryzen master. The real issue is the cooling then, most of their servers have issues with thermal throttling and tend to crash at high CPU loads. I got around 250~ dedicated servers at hetzner currently and tested basically every dedicated server they offered for the past years. The current i5-13500 won't boost properly at all - no matter what OS or "tuning" you try to apply. 9900k was the worst out of all, insane temps and it was literally impossible to reach the maximum boost clock for extended durations. I monitor the CPU temps on all of my servers, if you buy 50x the same server they all behave differently and some will overheat while others won't. I do not go for any "high end" CPUs anymore, I wonder how the i9-13900k is doing 🤔

    I was boosting i5-13500 at Hetzner, but there some magic is needed :).
    Add intel_pstate=passive to the grub and then do your magic with kernel/governor and such.

  • xx00xxxx00xx Member

    https://www.worldstream.com = https://www.greenhousedatacenters.nl/en

    they have their own datacenters. these are tier3 dcs which are ISO/IEC 27001:2015, ISO 9001:2015, PCI DSS and ISO 14001:2015 certified. they have real nitrogen gas fire protection. everything is realy unlimited and dedicated when they sell it to you. and you can max out the hardware.

    hetzner dcs are budget, no real fire protection. they totally lied about "dedicated 1 GBit uplink by default and with it unlimited traffic" they kicked out also a lot of users which had only traffic to dtag. they don't even answer to these topics. you can't easy max out the hardware.

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