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Is Laravel a good choice to build a website like twitter?

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Comments

  • definitelyliamdefinitelyliam Member

    @EthanZou said:

    @definitelyliam said:
    Here's my two cents as someone with relatively extensive experience with Laravel:

    Architecture and component separation has more to contribute than choosing which framework to start on. PHP 8 improvements are no joke to laugh at and can scale considerably provided components are separated into their own service.

    Most PHP-based apps handle everything in one service, so of course they don't scale well (Wordpress being one example where the UI, uploads and backend are all one service). However, when you:

    • Use an object storage (s3/s-compatible solution) + CDN for user uploads
    • Separate your UI infrastructure (Vue/React/Svelte/whatever) from your API infrastructure (add more API backends as you go and load-balance them on a common endpoint)
    • Have a good database design (considering when to use NoSQL vs a traditional RDBMS, properly-indexed data, sharding)

    Then whether you go with Laravel or not is a non-factor. There's also a bunch of stuff that could help, for instance, GraphQL subscriptions (Hasura and the like) for timeline refreshes (you could do this with websockets on your own but why bother when there's already something you could use for it).

    From experience, Laravel's come a long way performance-wise and provides some sensible defaults. You also save time not needing to re-engineer authentication, filesystem definitions and the like since they already come built-in, saving you time and letting you rely on scrutinized code to handle the important stuff.

    With that said, any language would do. I've moved on to .NET Core but I'd 100% go back to writing Laravel code any day if it fits the project's requirements.

    Many thanks for your guide! <3
    So 100k visits a day should be OK with Laravel?

    Yes. More of an infrastructure concern than a framework one, but yes. That should be easy with Laravel.

  • EthanZouEthanZou Member

    @definitelyliam said:

    @EthanZou said:

    @definitelyliam said:
    Here's my two cents as someone with relatively extensive experience with Laravel:

    Architecture and component separation has more to contribute than choosing which framework to start on. PHP 8 improvements are no joke to laugh at and can scale considerably provided components are separated into their own service.

    Most PHP-based apps handle everything in one service, so of course they don't scale well (Wordpress being one example where the UI, uploads and backend are all one service). However, when you:

    • Use an object storage (s3/s-compatible solution) + CDN for user uploads
    • Separate your UI infrastructure (Vue/React/Svelte/whatever) from your API infrastructure (add more API backends as you go and load-balance them on a common endpoint)
    • Have a good database design (considering when to use NoSQL vs a traditional RDBMS, properly-indexed data, sharding)

    Then whether you go with Laravel or not is a non-factor. There's also a bunch of stuff that could help, for instance, GraphQL subscriptions (Hasura and the like) for timeline refreshes (you could do this with websockets on your own but why bother when there's already something you could use for it).

    From experience, Laravel's come a long way performance-wise and provides some sensible defaults. You also save time not needing to re-engineer authentication, filesystem definitions and the like since they already come built-in, saving you time and letting you rely on scrutinized code to handle the important stuff.

    With that said, any language would do. I've moved on to .NET Core but I'd 100% go back to writing Laravel code any day if it fits the project's requirements.

    Many thanks for your guide! <3
    So 100k visits a day should be OK with Laravel?

    Yes. More of an infrastructure concern than a framework one, but yes. That should be easy with Laravel.

    Get√ <3
    Thanks again!

  • varwwwvarwww Member

    These days PHP is no longer the bottleneck (personal experience). The database is, eats up all the RAM and server expenses even after optimizing queries and indexes :(

  • EthanZouEthanZou Member

    @varwww said:
    These days PHP is no longer the bottleneck (personal experience). The database is, eats up all the RAM and server expenses even after optimizing queries and indexes :(

    So with a cloud database might help a lot?

  • varwwwvarwww Member

    @EthanZou said:

    @varwww said:
    These days PHP is no longer the bottleneck (personal experience). The database is, eats up all the RAM and server expenses even after optimizing queries and indexes :(

    So with a cloud database might help a lot?

    Yup, but the managed database servers (Eg: https://www.digitalocean.com/pricing/managed-databases ) are expensive compared to unmanaged servers.

  • EthanZouEthanZou Member

    @varwww said:

    @EthanZou said:

    @varwww said:
    These days PHP is no longer the bottleneck (personal experience). The database is, eats up all the RAM and server expenses even after optimizing queries and indexes :(

    So with a cloud database might help a lot?

    Yup, but the managed database servers (Eg: https://www.digitalocean.com/pricing/managed-databases ) are expensive compared to unmanaged servers.

    OMG :D
    Why?

  • varwwwvarwww Member

    @EthanZou said:

    @varwww said:

    @EthanZou said:

    @varwww said:
    These days PHP is no longer the bottleneck (personal experience). The database is, eats up all the RAM and server expenses even after optimizing queries and indexes :(

    So with a cloud database might help a lot?

    Yup, but the managed database servers (Eg: https://www.digitalocean.com/pricing/managed-databases ) are expensive compared to unmanaged servers.

    OMG :D
    Why?

    Convenience. You do not have to setup, scale, tune, handle security upgrades, migrate to newer versions etc.

  • EthanZouEthanZou Member

    @varwww said:

    @EthanZou said:

    @varwww said:

    @EthanZou said:

    @varwww said:
    These days PHP is no longer the bottleneck (personal experience). The database is, eats up all the RAM and server expenses even after optimizing queries and indexes :(

    So with a cloud database might help a lot?

    Yup, but the managed database servers (Eg: https://www.digitalocean.com/pricing/managed-databases ) are expensive compared to unmanaged servers.

    OMG :D
    Why?

    Convenience. You do not have to setup, scale, tune, handle security upgrades, migrate to newer versions etc.

    Even including optimizing queries and indexes?

  • mgcAnamgcAna Member, Host Rep

    Laravel is good, its very good if you want to get started and go live in short time, but at the core most of the time it is not framework, bottleneck is programmer who is using the framework. From real life experience where we have managed lots corporate clients and 99% times for PHP they have Laravel, we are yet to see any website which is properly coded even after using the framework. To clarify, it includes apps or products those are sold commercially to clients.

    Every other day when something is broken, its surprising to see how badly things are coded on the top of framework and then people blame framework.

    There is post by @definitelyliam, that is truely what you need to understand when you are aiming at large scale deployment.

    And for start, if you are comfortable with with Laravel, go ahead and code with it, but understand how it works instead of just making it work.

    Good luck.

  • EthanZouEthanZou Member

    @mgcAna said:
    Laravel is good, its very good if you want to get started and go live in short time, but at the core most of the time it is not framework, bottleneck is programmer who is using the framework. From real life experience where we have managed lots corporate clients and 99% times for PHP they have Laravel, we are yet to see any website which is properly coded even after using the framework. To clarify, it includes apps or products those are sold commercially to clients.

    Every other day when something is broken, its surprising to see how badly things are coded on the top of framework and then people blame framework.

    There is post by @definitelyliam, that is truely what you need to understand when you are aiming at large scale deployment.

    And for start, if you are comfortable with with Laravel, go ahead and code with it, but understand how it works instead of just making it work.

    Good luck.

    Thanks for your help!

  • varwwwvarwww Member

    @EthanZou said:

    @varwww said:

    @EthanZou said:

    @varwww said:

    @EthanZou said:

    @varwww said:
    These days PHP is no longer the bottleneck (personal experience). The database is, eats up all the RAM and server expenses even after optimizing queries and indexes :(

    So with a cloud database might help a lot?

    Yup, but the managed database servers (Eg: https://www.digitalocean.com/pricing/managed-databases ) are expensive compared to unmanaged servers.

    OMG :D
    Why?

    Convenience. You do not have to setup, scale, tune, handle security upgrades, migrate to newer versions etc.

    Even including optimizing queries and indexes?

    I don't think so. Optimizing queries and indexes is the responsibility of the app developer. Can't find anything about it here https://www.digitalocean.com/products/managed-databases

  • team_traitorteam_traitor Member

    @EthanZou said:

    @team_traitor said: If it is for a client, go for it.

    Thanks and how about the performance of Laravel?

    It is fast and like other open source framework, a lot of developer is using this. You won't have problem finding devs that are expert on laravel.

    What I like is that all necessary functions and libraries are already present.

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