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Is my ISP shitting the bed or is it something else?

2»

Comments

  • emghemgh Member, Megathread Squad

    @Bushhy said:
    At the beginning of the year, I have a VERY similar issue. Ping related issues in games that would make them unplayable at times.

    http://startrinity.com/InternetQuality/ContinuousBandwidthTester.aspx

    I used this software on my home server that was directly connected to the modem. Ran this at ALL times, and would check on it when I started noticing issues in games.

    The part that you should look at is your Packet Loss. I am almost positive that you are having some sort of Packet Loss related issue. This should help you figure it out.

    Sadly in my case, even after having multiple dozens of techs come to my house, we just had to switch ISPs. Luckily, we went from COAX to Fiber, and its been flawless since.

    Thank you!

    Sadly, this is with fiber.

    But haven't noticed it yet since resetting the router (apart from just right after).

  • NeoonNeoon Community Contributor, Veteran

    Most of the time the ISP modems/routers got a hidden/engineering interface.
    Try to find this one for your modem/router, it should give you data you can work with.

    Thanked by 1emgh
  • emghemgh Member, Megathread Squad

    @Neoon said:
    Most of the time the ISP modems/routers got a hidden/engineering interface.
    Try to find this one for your modem/router, it should give you data you can work with.

    The one that my ISP access that is? Damn

    Thanked by 1yoursunny
  • emghemgh Member, Megathread Squad

    @Neoon said:
    Most of the time the ISP modems/routers got a hidden/engineering interface.
    Try to find this one for your modem/router, it should give you data you can work with.

    Now that you're saying it, my interface is at /common_page/, seems like there must be a non-common page :D

  • Just to be clear, your PC is connected to the network by Ethernet or Wi-Fi? If WiFi, it's definitely the issue. Check the RSSI on both sides and check the channel utilization. You have congestion. Check what your up/down is on a speedtest.

    If Ethernet, if you don't have sub 2ms ping times, it's hardware problem.

    You should also ping something on the network that isn't your router to help eliminate bad cables and switches.

    I recently swapped NICs in my ESXi and shortly after booting, the network went to shit until I powered it down. After a bunch of testing, if one port of the dual nic was plugged in, it was fine. But plugging in the second one killed the network with 2500ms pings.

    Thanked by 1emgh
  • emghemgh Member, Megathread Squad

    @TimboJones said:
    Just to be clear, your PC is connected to the network by Ethernet or Wi-Fi? If WiFi, it's definitely the issue. Check the RSSI on both sides and check the channel utilization. You have congestion. Check what your up/down is on a speedtest.

    If Ethernet, if you don't have sub 2ms ping times, it's hardware problem.

    You should also ping something on the network that isn't your router to help eliminate bad cables and switches.

    I recently swapped NICs in my ESXi and shortly after booting, the network went to shit until I powered it down. After a bunch of testing, if one port of the dual nic was plugged in, it was fine. But plugging in the second one killed the network with 2500ms pings.

    Wi-fi.

    Seems to be OK for now (since resetting the router).

    Speed has never been an issue apart from these weird 2500 ms local ping attacks.

    Interesting last paragraph.

  • emgemg Veteran
    edited November 2022

    Our house has multiple access points. I used software to see my neighbors' WiFi configurations. I chose channels that avoided overlap as much as possible from the nearest neighbors to each access point. I got a huge boost in WiFi performance as a result. I wrote it up here:

    https://lowendtalk.com/discussion/163628/wildly-successful-wifi-analysis-and-reconfiguration

    I move around the house with my laptop. After I move from one room to another, the laptop occasionally fails to switch to the closest WiFi access point. If it is still "attached' to an access point on the far side of the house, performance will be poor. Most of the time the switchover to the closest access point is quick and automatic. Sometimes the laptop fails to switch and it stays connected to the far access point. When that happens, I can easily force it to switch manually and then performance is good again.

    Sometimes those irregular timing or packet losses are normal. I just pinged an IP address in Europe from my location in California, and I saw a delay and dropout in the first try. To me, it seems normal to experience those every once in a while. Could it be packets taking different routes? An overloaded router along the path? Something else? Who knows!

    ...
    64 bytes from (redacted): icmp_seq=15 ttl=50 time=175.026 ms
    64 bytes from (redacted): icmp_seq=16 ttl=50 time=175.814 ms
    64 bytes from (redacted): icmp_seq=17 ttl=50 time=175.903 ms
    64 bytes from (redacted): icmp_seq=18 ttl=50 time=211.502 ms
    64 bytes from (redacted): icmp_seq=19 ttl=50 time=175.397 ms
    64 bytes from (redacted): icmp_seq=20 ttl=50 time=176.688 ms
    64 bytes from (redacted): icmp_seq=21 ttl=50 time=200.257 ms
    64 bytes from (redacted): icmp_seq=22 ttl=50 time=196.533 ms
    64 bytes from (redacted): icmp_seq=23 ttl=50 time=179.264 ms
    64 bytes from (redacted): icmp_seq=24 ttl=50 time=278.123 ms
    64 bytes from (redacted): icmp_seq=25 ttl=50 time=192.808 ms
    Request timeout for icmp_seq 26
    64 bytes from (redacted): icmp_seq=27 ttl=50 time=173.163 ms
    64 bytes from (redacted): icmp_seq=28 ttl=50 time=176.293 ms
    64 bytes from (redacted): icmp_seq=29 ttl=50 time=174.033 ms
    64 bytes from (redacted): icmp_seq=30 ttl=50 time=174.517 ms
    64 bytes from (redacted): icmp_seq=31 ttl=50 time=175.042 ms
    ...
    --- (redacted) ping statistics ---
    38 packets transmitted, 37 packets received, 2.6% packet loss
    round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 173.089/180.798/278.123/18.223 ms
    

    I have seen the same thing many many times. I always assumed that it is normal.

    Thanked by 1emgh
  • @emgh said:

    @TimboJones said:
    Just to be clear, your PC is connected to the network by Ethernet or Wi-Fi? If WiFi, it's definitely the issue. Check the RSSI on both sides and check the channel utilization. You have congestion. Check what your up/down is on a speedtest.

    If Ethernet, if you don't have sub 2ms ping times, it's hardware problem.

    You should also ping something on the network that isn't your router to help eliminate bad cables and switches.

    I recently swapped NICs in my ESXi and shortly after booting, the network went to shit until I powered it down. After a bunch of testing, if one port of the dual nic was plugged in, it was fine. But plugging in the second one killed the network with 2500ms pings.

    Wi-fi.

    Seems to be OK for now (since resetting the router).

    Speed has never been an issue apart from these weird 2500 ms local ping attacks.

    Interesting last paragraph.

    Yeah, Wi-Fi is your problem. If you're a serious gamer, run the Ethernet cable.

    Thanked by 1emgh
  • emghemgh Member, Megathread Squad

    @TimboJones said:

    @emgh said:

    @TimboJones said:
    Just to be clear, your PC is connected to the network by Ethernet or Wi-Fi? If WiFi, it's definitely the issue. Check the RSSI on both sides and check the channel utilization. You have congestion. Check what your up/down is on a speedtest.

    If Ethernet, if you don't have sub 2ms ping times, it's hardware problem.

    You should also ping something on the network that isn't your router to help eliminate bad cables and switches.

    I recently swapped NICs in my ESXi and shortly after booting, the network went to shit until I powered it down. After a bunch of testing, if one port of the dual nic was plugged in, it was fine. But plugging in the second one killed the network with 2500ms pings.

    Wi-fi.

    Seems to be OK for now (since resetting the router).

    Speed has never been an issue apart from these weird 2500 ms local ping attacks.

    Interesting last paragraph.

    Yeah, Wi-Fi is your problem. If you're a serious gamer, run the Ethernet cable.

    Might just do that.

    Just seems so weird because I never ever had this issue before, averaged like 14 ms in CS:GO to the EU NORTH servers, and never ever 40+.

    I’ll do it the cable way if it happends again (now after my reset).

  • @emgh said:

    @TimboJones said:

    @emgh said:

    @TimboJones said:
    Just to be clear, your PC is connected to the network by Ethernet or Wi-Fi? If WiFi, it's definitely the issue. Check the RSSI on both sides and check the channel utilization. You have congestion. Check what your up/down is on a speedtest.

    If Ethernet, if you don't have sub 2ms ping times, it's hardware problem.

    You should also ping something on the network that isn't your router to help eliminate bad cables and switches.

    I recently swapped NICs in my ESXi and shortly after booting, the network went to shit until I powered it down. After a bunch of testing, if one port of the dual nic was plugged in, it was fine. But plugging in the second one killed the network with 2500ms pings.

    Wi-fi.

    Seems to be OK for now (since resetting the router).

    Speed has never been an issue apart from these weird 2500 ms local ping attacks.

    Interesting last paragraph.

    Yeah, Wi-Fi is your problem. If you're a serious gamer, run the Ethernet cable.

    Might just do that.

    Just seems so weird because I never ever had this issue before, averaged like 14 ms in CS:GO to the EU NORTH servers, and never ever 40+.

    I’ll do it the cable way if it happends again (now after my reset).

    You didn't do the speedtest. You have congestion, meaning your WiFi isn't as good as it was before. There's LOTS of possible causes. Losing just a few dB's of signal can drop your modulation and lower your achievable bandwidth.

    Unless you have licensed spectrum, Wi-Fi is not a dedicated and predictable medium like Ethernet. For example, when the granny next door moves out and a family of four move in, you could see a drop in performance because of more interference and utilization.

  • @LTniger said:
    So, killing rumors by changing routers. What a sentence! Yea, isps love to tease those fps fanatics by randomly switching routes :D . Trolling their users.

    Well depends if changing routers fixes the issue. Could also be a ISP issue in their area.
    But this is the first step into seeing the issue

  • @Bushhy said:
    At the beginning of the year, I have a VERY similar issue. Ping related issues in games that would make them unplayable at times.

    http://startrinity.com/InternetQuality/ContinuousBandwidthTester.aspx

    I used this software on my home server that was directly connected to the modem. Ran this at ALL times, and would check on it when I started noticing issues in games.

    The part that you should look at is your Packet Loss. I am almost positive that you are having some sort of Packet Loss related issue. This should help you figure it out.

    Sadly in my case, even after having multiple dozens of techs come to my house, we just had to switch ISPs. Luckily, we went from COAX to Fiber, and its been flawless since.

    I'm still on coax cause fiber in our area sucks.

  • @Neoon said: Most of the time the ISP modems/routers got a hidden/engineering interface.

    Its mostly ACS or TR069

  • @hollowvi1 said:

    @Bushhy said:
    At the beginning of the year, I have a VERY similar issue. Ping related issues in games that would make them unplayable at times.

    http://startrinity.com/InternetQuality/ContinuousBandwidthTester.aspx

    I used this software on my home server that was directly connected to the modem. Ran this at ALL times, and would check on it when I started noticing issues in games.

    The part that you should look at is your Packet Loss. I am almost positive that you are having some sort of Packet Loss related issue. This should help you figure it out.

    Sadly in my case, even after having multiple dozens of techs come to my house, we just had to switch ISPs. Luckily, we went from COAX to Fiber, and its been flawless since.

    I'm still on coax cause fiber in our area sucks.

    Yeah. We would still be on Coax if they could have fixed the issue. However, we just got tired of calling techs out, them saying nothing was wrong, and then having 20-30% packet loss all day.

    Coax is definitely reliable though. Didn't have an issue for the 10 years before the packet loss started.

    Thanked by 1emgh
  • @Bushhy said:

    @hollowvi1 said:

    @Bushhy said:
    At the beginning of the year, I have a VERY similar issue. Ping related issues in games that would make them unplayable at times.

    http://startrinity.com/InternetQuality/ContinuousBandwidthTester.aspx

    I used this software on my home server that was directly connected to the modem. Ran this at ALL times, and would check on it when I started noticing issues in games.

    The part that you should look at is your Packet Loss. I am almost positive that you are having some sort of Packet Loss related issue. This should help you figure it out.

    Sadly in my case, even after having multiple dozens of techs come to my house, we just had to switch ISPs. Luckily, we went from COAX to Fiber, and its been flawless since.

    I'm still on coax cause fiber in our area sucks.

    Yeah. We would still be on Coax if they could have fixed the issue. However, we just got tired of calling techs out, them saying nothing was wrong, and then having 20-30% packet loss all day.

    Coax is definitely reliable though. Didn't have an issue for the 10 years before the packet loss started.

    Yk what's funny. We use to have packetloss here with our COAX they came and tested it inside our house found we had 40% packetloss
    Then they tested the TAP outside our house and they found it was having issues. So it was fixed within a few days.

    Thanked by 1emgh
  • @hollowvi1 said:

    @Bushhy said:

    @hollowvi1 said:

    @Bushhy said:
    At the beginning of the year, I have a VERY similar issue. Ping related issues in games that would make them unplayable at times.

    http://startrinity.com/InternetQuality/ContinuousBandwidthTester.aspx

    I used this software on my home server that was directly connected to the modem. Ran this at ALL times, and would check on it when I started noticing issues in games.

    The part that you should look at is your Packet Loss. I am almost positive that you are having some sort of Packet Loss related issue. This should help you figure it out.

    Sadly in my case, even after having multiple dozens of techs come to my house, we just had to switch ISPs. Luckily, we went from COAX to Fiber, and its been flawless since.

    I'm still on coax cause fiber in our area sucks.

    Yeah. We would still be on Coax if they could have fixed the issue. However, we just got tired of calling techs out, them saying nothing was wrong, and then having 20-30% packet loss all day.

    Coax is definitely reliable though. Didn't have an issue for the 10 years before the packet loss started.

    Yk what's funny. We use to have packetloss here with our COAX they came and tested it inside our house found we had 40% packetloss
    Then they tested the TAP outside our house and they found it was having issues. So it was fixed within a few days.

    Yeah. We had the drop replaced, tap outside replaced, splitters replaced, new lines ran inside the house, new modem, new router, ect. They always said they could not see the issue, even when I could show them the issue occurring WHILE they were there.

    Seemed almost like an area issue with our ISP, that they just could not figure out.

    Thanked by 1emgh
  • @Bushhy said:

    @hollowvi1 said:

    @Bushhy said:

    @hollowvi1 said:

    @Bushhy said:
    At the beginning of the year, I have a VERY similar issue. Ping related issues in games that would make them unplayable at times.

    http://startrinity.com/InternetQuality/ContinuousBandwidthTester.aspx

    I used this software on my home server that was directly connected to the modem. Ran this at ALL times, and would check on it when I started noticing issues in games.

    The part that you should look at is your Packet Loss. I am almost positive that you are having some sort of Packet Loss related issue. This should help you figure it out.

    Sadly in my case, even after having multiple dozens of techs come to my house, we just had to switch ISPs. Luckily, we went from COAX to Fiber, and its been flawless since.

    I'm still on coax cause fiber in our area sucks.

    Yeah. We would still be on Coax if they could have fixed the issue. However, we just got tired of calling techs out, them saying nothing was wrong, and then having 20-30% packet loss all day.

    Coax is definitely reliable though. Didn't have an issue for the 10 years before the packet loss started.

    Yk what's funny. We use to have packetloss here with our COAX they came and tested it inside our house found we had 40% packetloss
    Then they tested the TAP outside our house and they found it was having issues. So it was fixed within a few days.

    Yeah. We had the drop replaced, tap outside replaced, splitters replaced, new lines ran inside the house, new modem, new router, ect. They always said they could not see the issue, even when I could show them the issue occurring WHILE they were there.

    Seemed almost like an area issue with our ISP, that they just could not figure out.

    probably the main line that goes to your area is the issue. I mean ours is a hybrid setup so its fiber to the area and coax to the home
    We have Spectrum

    Thanked by 1emgh
  • How would you feel about a custom router?
    A Raspberry Pi and OpenWRT can go a long way

    Thanked by 1emgh
  • emghemgh Member, Megathread Squad

    @GreenRuby said:
    How would you feel about a custom router?
    A Raspberry Pi and OpenWRT can go a long way

    The fact that they're 10x harder to get your hands on than a GPU during the cryptocraze kind of makes that option not that exciting.

    But I see your point, could be fun.

  • @emgh said:

    @GreenRuby said:
    How would you feel about a custom router?
    A Raspberry Pi and OpenWRT can go a long way

    The fact that they're 10x harder to get your hands on than a GPU during the cryptocraze kind of makes that option not that exciting.

    But I see your point, could be fun.

    It doesn't have to be a Raspberry Pi though
    An old computer or something like an Orange Pi could work out jusfinet

    Thanked by 1yoursunny
  • NeoonNeoon Community Contributor, Veteran

    @GreenRuby said:

    @emgh said:

    @GreenRuby said:
    How would you feel about a custom router?
    A Raspberry Pi and OpenWRT can go a long way

    The fact that they're 10x harder to get your hands on than a GPU during the cryptocraze kind of makes that option not that exciting.

    But I see your point, could be fun.

    It doesn't have to be a Raspberry Pi though
    An old computer or something like an Orange Pi could work out jusfinet

    They do suck, if you buy one, buy them when they got recently released.
    Otherwise you stuck with EOL software.

    Old Raspberry Pi's still get software support, these ones not for long.

  • emgemg Veteran
    edited November 2022

    I ran a firewall router in a virtual machine on a Mac mini server for years. Macs come with only one Ethernet port, so I added a USB/Ethernet adapter for the second Ethernet port.

    If we lost power and then it was restored, the Mac server would automatically boot, open an unprivileged account and launch the virtual machine software, which would automatically launch the virtual machine and start the firewall/router for the home. You must configure it so that the USB/Ethernet adapter binds to the virtual machine and not the server itself at startup.

    The Mac server itself and the virtual machine firewall/router had separate static IP addresses on the local LAN through the built-in Ethernet port. The virtual machine's LAN address was the gateway address for the home LAN network, of course.

    The USB/Ethernet adapter was bound solely to the virtual machine. It was not visible to the Mac server. It provided the connection to the ISP. I had a "modem" that served as an Ethernet to whatever (DSL, cable, or fiber) bridge to the WAN (internet). Connections on those modem/bridges are power, Ethernet, and WAN. No configuration options; nothing more.

    Performance of the virtual machine firewall/router was good enough to keep up with our 100 Mbits/sec internet speeds that we had at the time. Those ultra-cheap USB/Ethernet adapters got very warm, and would burn out after a couple years or so. I always kept a spare on hand. Avoid the ones that offer a USB "hub" with additional USB ports. You don't want to be using the USB interfaces while it is serving a full-speed Ethernet port.

    Eventually I got on eBay, bought a used firewall appliance, and loaded it with the firewall/router software I like. It is better, and has real "blinkin' lights" on the front to show network activity, which can be useful on occasion.

    What I did to create a virtual machine firewall/router can be done on nearly any hardware and nearly any operating system, using nearly any software for the virtual machine. I had a spare Mac mini and used VMware Fusion, but you could do the same under Windows or Linux using virtualization software of your choosing. It worked on a non-expandable (not dual-homed) device with the addition of a cheap USB/Ethernet adapter. I did not lose its server features when I added the virtual machine firewall/router. Virtual machines allowed me to experiment with different firewall/router software. You can copy them, change them, take snapshots of them in various states or configurations, etc.

    That's just another option for you to consider. I am not saying that it is "better" than the various solutions proposed above (such as a Raspberry Pi) for a router, but it is cheap and flexible.

    Thanked by 1emgh
  • emghemgh Member, Megathread Squad

    Thanks everyone, got cable, night & day.

    Only issue is IF I use the Satechi adapter for my Mac (super expensive btw) AND have the charging cable in while plugging it, ONLY charging works (ethernet does not).

    If I do it the other way around, ONLY ethernet is working, not charging.

    So I need to have a good battery level if I want good internet.

    This with a like 1.5K usd computer.

  • emghemgh Member, Megathread Squad
    edited November 2022

    Also, it's a deeper issue than the adapter. If I use the adapter with ethernet, I can't even charge my mac using the SECOND USB-C port (a totally different port than the one connecting the adapter/USB Hub).

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