Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!


A new speculative execution attack on x86 - Page 2
New on LowEndTalk? Please Register and read our Community Rules.

All new Registrations are manually reviewed and approved, so a short delay after registration may occur before your account becomes active.

A new speculative execution attack on x86

2»

Comments

  • jackbjackb Member, Host Rep

    @emg said:
    Note: Student projects do not count.

    Have a look at some of @yoursunny's academic work and you might rethink that one.

    Thanked by 1emg
  • rm_rm_ IPv6 Advocate, Veteran

    32-bit kernels will not be fixed for Retbleed: https://www.phoronix.com/news/Linux-x86-Retbleed

    Thanked by 1netomx
  • @emg said:
    [snip]

    Cool story, bro.

    Thanked by 1emg
  • ralfralf Member

    @TimboJones said:

    @emg said:
    [snip]

    Cool story, bro.

    It was a good story, thanks for sharing it @emg. Shame some people have no experience or respect for those who do.

    Thanked by 2emg jsg
  • @ralf said:

    @TimboJones said:

    @emg said:
    [snip]

    Cool story, bro.

    It was a good story

    Not surprised.

    Thanked by 1ralf
  • TimboJonesTimboJones Member
    edited July 2022

    @emg said:

    @TimboJones said: Filed under "stuff that never happened". "Virgin RAM"? Oh boy.

    What do you mean by that? What are you accusing me of? Please be very specific about what you say "never happened". That is a personal attack. Of course it happened. I was there.

    -> What basis do you have for calling me a liar?
    I have been honest and forthright in every post I have written on LowEndTalk and I stand by them. I do my best to separate facts from opinions. When I make an honest mistake, I admit it, explain the error, and apologize.

    -> When you drop empty accusations in public like that, all you do is expose your own shortcomings.

    We did not have a proper term for it, so "virgin RAM" was my invented term to describe RAM that had not been overwritten since the POST ran at system startup. I never had to define the term for anyone. My coworkers all intuitively understood what the term meant, and it stuck. The first time I used it in my post above, I put the words inside quotation marks to highlight the fact that it was a non-standard, invented term. I may not have described it well enough for TimboJones to understand, or perhaps TimboJones is too inexperienced in this area to figure out what the term meant from my description.

    Virgin RAM is RAM that hasn't been physically used. The term "virgin" makes your explanation make even less sense AFTER POST and I had assumed you incorrectly referred to uninitialized RAM from power on which would be 00's or FF's and not produce audio. Even random garbage data made everyone bust up? Christ, was this a church meeting? Having it loop out "tit", "fuck" or "shit" would be believable and a good story. But random crap out of a speaker because of poorly written code? Yeah, not so much. I'd expect "shut that shit off" being yelled.

    Regardless, terming this as "virgin RAM" means your colleagues were making fun of you behind your back or worse, your company was so shit nobody knew you didn't know what you were talking about or not being embarrassed for writing such bad code.

    In summary, you called KNOWN DIRTY USED RAM "virgin RAM" for fuck knows reason. That triggered my BS detectors, yes.

  • ralfralf Member
    edited July 2022

    Clearly you have never experienced the pleasures of an SP0256.

    @TimboJones said:
    I had assumed you incorrectly referred to uninitialized RAM from power on which would be 00's or FF's

    And more to the point, you apparently don't know the first thing about how RAM works, but still feel the need to try to explain it to @emg who clearly does.

    Thanked by 1jsg
  • @ralf said:
    Clearly you have never experienced the pleasures of an SP0256.

    Have you? That wouldn't change the fact dirty RAM would never be called "virgin RAM" or that a story that is basically "instead of reading out a specific string at boot, it read random garbage and was just garbled noise". Soooooo funny. Great story, one for the times.

  • ralfralf Member

    @TimboJones said:

    @ralf said:
    Clearly you have never experienced the pleasures of an SP0256.

    Have you?

    How nice of you to inquire! Why yes, my good chap, I have!

    That wouldn't change the fact dirty RAM would never be called "virgin RAM"

    Ignoring for the moment that this was his story, and he did in fact call it this, and moreover everyone there understand what he meant by that shows that there was a shared understanding they had, and perhaps if you tried to understand the situation he described rather than immediately trying to denigrate anything beyond your ken, then you might too understand what he meant.

    Much as a table freshly tidied of mess with a clean tablecloth placed thereupon might be said to have a "virgin tablecloth", or a freshly washed blackboard (not just erased, actually washed clean) might similarly be referred to as a "virgin blackboard", it is quite clear his meaning was for RAM that the program hadn't yet written to, and was in the state the POST had left it in, moreover a state that was the same on every reboot and so the error would manifest itself in the same way every time.

    If you had any experience in programming at all, you'd understand that it's better to fill uninitialised memory with random data rather than initialising it to zero, because it more quickly surfaces bugs where you read uninitalised data.

    or that a story that is basically "instead of reading out a specific string at boot, it read random garbage and was just garbled noise"

    Again, you're making assumptions. It wouldn't have been garbled noise, although with such a misunderstanding, it is understandable why you might not appreciate it. It would instead have been random phonemes which would have been as hilarious as described. I can't imagine you know what a phoneme is either, but I'll leave that as an exercise for you to google that yourself.

    Soooooo funny. Great story, one for the times.

    Indeed.

  • emgemg Veteran

    My words stand on their own as written, and I stand by them. I have strived to write what happened as best as I could, described in the terms my coworkers and I used at the time. I was there and they were there and @TimboJones was not.

    There is no further value in responding to his embarassing accusations and innuendos. His words speak for themselves. Judge for yourselves.

    Thanked by 2ralf jsg
  • jsgjsg Member, Resident Benchmarker

    @emg explicitly said:

    We did not have a proper term for it, so "virgin RAM" was my invented term to describe RAM that had not been overwritten since the POST ran at system startup. I never had to define the term for anyone. My coworkers all intuitively understood what the term meant, and it stuck. The first time I used it in my post above, I put the words inside quotation marks to highlight the fact that it was a non-standard, invented term.

    .

    @TimboJones said:
    Virgin RAM is RAM that hasn't been physically used.

    In summary, you called KNOWN DIRTY USED RAM "virgin RAM" for fuck knows reason. That triggered my BS detectors, yes.

    I have bad news for you, TimboJones: All RAM has been physically used ... during and after manufacturing and pre-packaging before one even opens the purchased RAM's package.

    That said, I could perfectly well understand @emg 's term "virgin RAM" - as should everyone with a modicum of experience because emg explained really well what he meant. Moreover many people with some experience know that memory is checked by the system using certain patterns.

    The problem isn't emg's wording or description, the problem is that you do not have "BS detectors" but rather active search devices looking for things that you can perceive and declare as "BS". The other problem is a rather large gap between your self-perception and the knowledge and experience you actually and really have.

    Thanked by 2ralf emg
Sign In or Register to comment.