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ā€ŗ Is the number of Data Centers the same for CloudFlare Business and pro plans?
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Is the number of Data Centers the same for CloudFlare Business and pro plans?

I've been using cloudflare's pro plan and I recently wanted to upgrade to the Business plan for more speed.

But many people I read say that the number of Data Centers is the same for Business and pro plans, and that only Enterprise plans will enjoy more Data Centers.

Does anyone know if this is the case? If so, I won't waste my money.

Comments

  • mmmxnrsmmmxnrs Member

    No, they only tell you what Enterprise plans have and not what other plans have.

  • From my understanding, Free + Pro + Business run on the same base anycast infrastructure with the same PoPs, most of the limitations are imposed on software level between Free, Pro and Business.

    Enterprise however provides you the possibility to purchase access to the China Network as well, so you'll get much better local routing over the Asia-Pacific region.

    Thanked by 3szymonp Chuck devp
  • mmmxnrsmmmxnrs Member

    @dbContext said:
    From my understanding, Free + Pro + Business run on the same base anycast infrastructure with the same PoPs, most of the limitations are imposed on software level between Free, Pro and Business.

    Enterprise however provides you the possibility to purchase access to the China Network as well, so you'll get much better local routing over the Asia-Pacific region.

    I see, thanks for your reply.

  • Daniel15Daniel15 Veteran

    Why not call their sales team and ask?

    @dbContext said: From my understanding, Free + Pro + Business run on the same base anycast infrastructure with the same PoPs

    I'm not sure about other regions, but in Australia the routing seems better with paid plans vs free plans. I've seen traffic being routed to their Singapore PoP on free plans, whereas I've never seen that on paid plans. It could just be that the Australian PoPs are very busy and thus the free traffic is deprioritised very often.

  • NekkiNekki Veteran

    My dear fellow, rather than asking your important question to the learned denizens of this fine community, I feel you would receive a far more assured response by redirecting it to the business in question directly, what?

    Thanked by 1devp
  • @Nekki said:
    My dear fellow, rather than asking your important question to the learned denizens of this fine community, I feel you would receive a far more assured response by redirecting it to the business in question directly, what?

    I concur

    Thanked by 1Nekki
  • mmmxnrsmmmxnrs Member

    @Nekki said:
    My dear fellow, rather than asking your important question to the learned denizens of this fine community, I feel you would receive a far more assured response by redirecting it to the business in question directly, what?

    @dbContext said:

    @Nekki said:
    My dear fellow, rather than asking your important question to the learned denizens of this fine community, I feel you would receive a far more assured response by redirecting it to the business in question directly, what?

    I concur

    I asked, but they couldn't tell me the details, only that it's all based on your location. So, I came here to see if anyone knows what it's like to actually use it.

    Thanked by 1devp
  • NekkiNekki Veteran

    @mmmxnrs said:

    @Nekki said:
    My dear fellow, rather than asking your important question to the learned denizens of this fine community, I feel you would receive a far more assured response by redirecting it to the business in question directly, what?

    @dbContext said:

    @Nekki said:
    My dear fellow, rather than asking your important question to the learned denizens of this fine community, I feel you would receive a far more assured response by redirecting it to the business in question directly, what?

    I concur

    I asked, but they couldn't tell me the details, only that it's all based on your location. So, I came here to see if anyone knows what it's like to actually use it.

    Iā€™m sorry to report this to you my friend, but if Cloudflare cannot answer this question accurately, the only responses you receive here will be opinion and guesswork rather that statements of fact.

  • LordSpockLordSpock Member, Host Rep

    As far as I am aware, the PoPs are the same for all plans - but there are peering differences.

    From what I remember, arsehole carriers like Telstra have peering only on Business and above plans.

  • 0xbkt0xbkt Member

    Help yourself here: https://cloudflare-test.judge.sh/

    Thanked by 3NanoG6 maverickp Chuck
  • eva2000eva2000 Veteran
    edited May 2022

    @mmmxnrs said:
    I've been using cloudflare's pro plan and I recently wanted to upgrade to the Business plan for more speed.

    But many people I read say that the number of Data Centers is the same for Business and pro plans, and that only Enterprise plans will enjoy more Data Centers.

    Does anyone know if this is the case? If so, I won't waste my money.

    I've been using Cloudflare for 11+ yrs now on all Cloudflare plans from CF Free, Pro, Business and Enterprise plans :)

    1. The higher the Cloudflare plan you go, the better the routing and ISP/network peering gets. due to varying ISP costs around the world https://blog.cloudflare.com/bandwidth-costs-around-the-world/. As it may cost Cloudflare more money to serve a request from some geographic datacenters than others, financially Cloudflare can't always route visitors to the nearest datacenter. For instance 2 geographical locations which historically showed such cases are India and Australia. On Cloudflare free plan visitors from India or Australia maybe routed to Cloudflare's Singapore or Los Angeles data centers due to lower cost. As you moved up the Cloudflare plan tiers to more paid plans, the higher probability of getting routed closer to Cloudflare datacenters in the same region for such high cost countries. My experience with using Cloudflare for past 11yrs on CF Free, Pro, Business and Enterprise plans, is if you want Australian visitors routed to Cloudflare Australian datacenters, you'd need at least Cloudflare Business for higher probability of such. But for Indian visitors to be routed to Cloudflare India datacenters, you'd need Cloudflare Enterprise plan for higher probability. I say higher probability as it still isn't guaranteed. Though over the years, the probability has gotten better as peering arrangements have improved I suspect.
    2. CF Business allows full page HTML guest caching via bypass cache on cookie page rule - Caching Anonymous Page Views https://blog.cloudflare.com/caching-anonymous-page-views/ so think of Varnish Cache guest full HTML cache but on CF Edge servers CDN'd. This was historically for me the greatest benefit of Cloudflare Business plan for my own usage. I could implement guest full HTML page caching for my forums and Wordpress blog and leverage all 200+ Cloudflare datacenters bring cached assets closest to the visitor and offload alot of traffic from my origin servers. Now with Cloudflare Workers also available and supporting caching https://developers.cloudflare.com/workers/learning/how-the-cache-works/, that value added feature isn't really required as you can implement and write your own Cloudflare Work based guest full HTML page caching proxy to do the same on any Cloudflare plan - Free and Pro included. Basic examples of using CF Worker's Cache API to do such without the bypass cache on cookie logic that you need to add at https://developers.cloudflare.com/workers/examples/cache-api/ or using fetch method caching at https://developers.cloudflare.com/workers/examples/cache-using-fetch/. I now use both methods. Cloudflare Business plan's bypass cache on cookie page rule though is fixed cost caching versus Cloudflare Worker based caching having variable costs https://developers.cloudflare.com/workers/platform/pricing/. So on Cloudflare Bundled Worker plan would be $5/month with 10m requests included and overages $0.50/million. So you would need to push past 390 million CF Worker cached requests to = $200 per month CF Business plan price.
    3. Cloudflare Business has Railgun which allows accelerating non-cacheable requests like dynamic HTML generated from PHP like on this forum for logged in members. Though Cloudflare hasn't continued the development of Railgun as rumours is they plan to eventually be rolled into Cloudflare Argo itself.
    4. Both bypass cache on cookie + railgun combined allow Cloudflare to accelerate guest + logged in members. In terms of page load speed, this is the biggest benefit of Cloudflare Business plan, having access to bypass cache on cookie page rule and Cloudflare Railgun.
    5. Cloudflare Business also gets higher quotas for Firewall/Transform/Page rules to allow you greater room and much finer grain control for performance and security.
    6. Cloudflare Analytics views on Business plans can have lower periods other than 24hrs like 30min to 12hrs views.
    7. Cloudflare max upload file limits vary on plan too https://support.cloudflare.com/hc/en-us/articles/200172516#h_51422705-42d0-450d-8eb1-5321dcadb5bc. Business get max 200MB, Free & Pro get 100MB and Enterprise 500MB
    8. A newer development now is also Cloudflare opening up SaaS for everyone https://blog.cloudflare.com/cloudflare-for-saas/, so you can now on any Cloudflare plan, technically extend your Cloudflare feature, security and performance sets to domains not on Cloudflare. Each Cloudflare plan has it's specific SaaS limits too https://developers.cloudflare.com/ssl/ssl-for-saas/plans/. This has been great as I can now extend some Cloudflare Enterprise or Business features to domains not on those plans too or not even on Cloudflare!

    As to Cloudflare Pro vs Free plans, Cloudflare Pro plan is beneficial for higher quotas or page rules, firewall rules, firewall ip/rule limits, rate limiting rules, user agent blocking rules and mirage/polish webp, enhanced HTTP/2 prioritization, TCP Turbo etc which free plan won't have and/or has fewer quota limits for

    All these additional quota/features allow you to better make use of Cloudflare for security and performance.

    More differences you can see in Cloudflare pricing plan comparison at https://www.cloudflare.com/plans/ which has a link to view and compare all features on that page.

    The mentioned https://cloudflare-test.judge.sh/ is a good guide to how peering is for different Cloudflare plan based sites too. There's also an extended explanation at https://github.com/judge2020/cloudflare-connectivity-test/wiki/Explanation

    Hope that helps

    George

  • mmmxnrsmmmxnrs Member

    @eva2000 said:

    @mmmxnrs said:
    I've been using cloudflare's pro plan and I recently wanted to upgrade to the Business plan for more speed.

    But many people I read say that the number of Data Centers is the same for Business and pro plans, and that only Enterprise plans will enjoy more Data Centers.

    Does anyone know if this is the case? If so, I won't waste my money.

    I've been using Cloudflare for 11+ yrs now on all Cloudflare plans from CF Free, Pro, Business and Enterprise plans :)

    1. The higher the Cloudflare plan you go, the better the routing and ISP/network peering gets. due to varying ISP costs around the world https://blog.cloudflare.com/bandwidth-costs-around-the-world/. As it may cost Cloudflare more money to serve a request from some geographic datacenters than others, financially Cloudflare can't always route visitors to the nearest datacenter. For instance 2 geographical locations which historically showed such cases are India and Australia. On Cloudflare free plan visitors from India or Australia maybe routed to Cloudflare's Singapore or Los Angeles data centers due to lower cost. As you moved up the Cloudflare plan tiers to more paid plans, the higher probability of getting routed closer to Cloudflare datacenters in the same region for such high cost countries. My experience with using Cloudflare for past 11yrs on CF Free, Pro, Business and Enterprise plans, is if you want Australian visitors routed to Cloudflare Australian datacenters, you'd need at least Cloudflare Business for higher probability of such. But for Indian visitors to be routed to Cloudflare India datacenters, you'd need Cloudflare Enterprise plan for higher probability. I say higher probability as it still isn't guaranteed. Though over the years, the probability has gotten better as peering arrangements have improved I suspect.
    2. CF Business allows full page HTML guest caching via bypass cache on cookie page rule - Caching Anonymous Page Views https://blog.cloudflare.com/caching-anonymous-page-views/ so think of Varnish Cache guest full HTML cache but on CF Edge servers CDN'd. This was historically for me the greatest benefit of Cloudflare Business plan for my own usage. I could implement guest full HTML page caching for my forums and Wordpress blog and leverage all 200+ Cloudflare datacenters bring cached assets closest to the visitor and offload alot of traffic from my origin servers. Now with Cloudflare Workers also available and supporting caching https://developers.cloudflare.com/workers/learning/how-the-cache-works/, that value added feature isn't really required as you can implement and write your own Cloudflare Work based guest full HTML page caching proxy to do the same on any Cloudflare plan - Free and Pro included. Basic examples of using CF Worker's Cache API to do such without the bypass cache on cookie logic that you need to add at https://developers.cloudflare.com/workers/examples/cache-api/ or using fetch method caching at https://developers.cloudflare.com/workers/examples/cache-using-fetch/. I now use both methods. Cloudflare Business plan's bypass cache on cookie page rule though is fixed cost caching versus Cloudflare Worker based caching having variable costs https://developers.cloudflare.com/workers/platform/pricing/. So on Cloudflare Bundled Worker plan would be $5/month with 10m requests included and overages $0.50/million. So you would need to push past 390 million CF Worker cached requests to = $200 per month CF Business plan price.
    3. Cloudflare Business has Railgun which allows accelerating non-cacheable requests like dynamic HTML generated from PHP like on this forum for logged in members. Though Cloudflare hasn't continued the development of Railgun as rumours is they plan to eventually be rolled into Cloudflare Argo itself.
    4. Both bypass cache on cookie + railgun combined allow Cloudflare to accelerate guest + logged in members. In terms of page load speed, this is the biggest benefit of Cloudflare Business plan, having access to bypass cache on cookie page rule and Cloudflare Railgun.
    5. Cloudflare Business also gets higher quotas for Firewall/Transform/Page rules to allow you greater room and much finer grain control for performance and security.
    6. Cloudflare Analytics views on Business plans can have lower periods other than 24hrs like 30min to 12hrs views.
    7. Cloudflare max upload file limits vary on plan too https://support.cloudflare.com/hc/en-us/articles/200172516#h_51422705-42d0-450d-8eb1-5321dcadb5bc. Business get max 200MB, Free & Pro get 100MB and Enterprise 500MB
    8. A newer development now is also Cloudflare opening up SaaS for everyone https://blog.cloudflare.com/cloudflare-for-saas/, so you can now on any Cloudflare plan, technically extend your Cloudflare feature, security and performance sets to domains not on Cloudflare. Each Cloudflare plan has it's specific SaaS limits too https://developers.cloudflare.com/ssl/ssl-for-saas/plans/. This has been great as I can now extend some Cloudflare Enterprise or Business features to domains not on those plans too or not even on Cloudflare!

    As to Cloudflare Pro vs Free plans, Cloudflare Pro plan is beneficial for higher quotas or page rules, firewall rules, firewall ip/rule limits, rate limiting rules, user agent blocking rules and mirage/polish webp, enhanced HTTP/2 prioritization, TCP Turbo etc which free plan won't have and/or has fewer quota limits for

    All these additional quota/features allow you to better make use of Cloudflare for security and performance.

    More differences you can see in Cloudflare pricing plan comparison at https://www.cloudflare.com/plans/ which has a link to view and compare all features on that page.

    The mentioned https://cloudflare-test.judge.sh/ is a good guide to how peering is for different Cloudflare plan based sites too. There's also an extended explanation at https://github.com/judge2020/cloudflare-connectivity-test/wiki/Explanation

    Hope that helps

    George

    Wow, thank you for such a detailed answer, this is very helpful to me.

  • Daniel15Daniel15 Veteran

    wow @eva2000 thanks for such a detailed comment!

    @eva2000 said: Cloudflare Business has Railgun which allows accelerating non-cacheable requests

    Some hosts provide Railgun even for free Cloudflare accounts - BuyVM does this for example.

  • Daniel15Daniel15 Veteran
    edited May 2022

    @0xbkt said:
    Help yourself here: https://cloudflare-test.judge.sh/

    lol for me this site is saying that the more you pay, the slower it gets šŸ¤”šŸ¤”šŸ¤”šŸ¤”

    The pings also seem quite high as I get much smaller pings when I ping the sites normally, with some variance: ~15-17ms for the example free sites vs ~12-13ms for the example enterprise sites. I get that these are using HTTP so there'd be some overhead, but these numbers seem quite high.

  • eva2000eva2000 Veteran
    edited May 2022

    @mmmxnrs said: Wow, thank you for such a detailed answer, this is very helpful to me.

    You're welcome

    @Daniel15 said: Some hosts provide Railgun even for free Cloudflare accounts - BuyVM does this for example.

    Yeah Cloudflare Partners can offer up Railgun. And in theory with CF SaaS now, any CF business or higher plan can offer up Railgun to custom hostnames outside of their plan too.

    @Daniel15 said: lol for me this site is saying that the more you pay, the slower it gets

    Yeah the metrics aren't entirely accurate, what you should get from that test though is the datacenter that ends up serving the request for each CF plan. Real world metrics would be different from my own experience with CF Free, Pro, Biz and Enterprise plans.

    I think variance can be had as each CF paid plan at least now have additional features a site owner can optionally enable to improve performance i.e. CF Argo, Cache Reserve, Tiered Cache, Enhanced Prioritization and TCP Turbo - all these can change a sites performance regardless of the CF plan used.

  • @Daniel15 said:

    @0xbkt said:
    Help yourself here: https://cloudflare-test.judge.sh/

    lol for me this site is saying that the more you pay, the slower it gets šŸ¤”šŸ¤”šŸ¤”šŸ¤”

    The pings also seem quite high as I get much smaller pings when I ping the sites normally, with some variance: ~15-17ms for the example free sites vs ~12-13ms for the example enterprise sites. I get that these are using HTTP so there'd be some overhead, but these numbers seem quite high.

    This "test" isn't even polling the right metrics. Routing in one direction =/= it's the same routing back.

    I think the real value in Cloudflare's paid plans are the additional features and options you have on top of their support and work.

  • eva2000eva2000 Veteran

    @HalfEatenPie said: I think the real value in Cloudflare's paid plans are the additional features and options you have on top of their support and work.

    That too, CF paid plans get ticket support, CF Biz and higher besides ticket support also get live chat support :)

    Thanked by 1HalfEatenPie
  • 0xbkt0xbkt Member

    @HalfEatenPie said: This "test" isn't even polling the right metrics.

    This was just to see what colo you are being served from. Maybe 2 and an halfish years ago, before Cloudflare finally upgraded their peering with local ISPs, capacity at Istanbul DC and DE-CIX Istanbul to 100 Gbps from 10 Gbps, it was not uncommon to see AMS, VIE, LHR, OTP, and FRA for domains on free plan where upper plans had the IST.

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