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No, they did defraud ARIN, first with lies (like most) and then with fake proof (see the issue?).
He is not big lol, Heng Lu/Outsideheaven at best times owned a /9 total and even had OVH announce space. This guy is absolutely nothing even to CC and legit ARIN LIRs as eg. Softlayer.
Moving outside the US changes everything.
Compare it - I am "untouchable", and i sold stolen space of annexed areas to the gov that annexed said area. This violated EU sanctions but my company is not in EU and while violating RIPE transfer and ownership policy (plus in essence supporting the theft of said IPs) i have absolutely nothing to fear; the highest i could get is in Croatia probation.
In US this would be grand theft (i guess, value 100k+), sale of stolen goods and the sanctions on top; in Croatia it is a white collar crime with UP TO 3 years probation max.
You never want to be convicted in the US for such things, it never ends well and there are no real limits on maximum sentences or a human rights council as in Europe. The US owns you once you are sentenced.
They do this since forever in any possible way as they appear. See my VPSBoard Thread from years ago;:
https://vpsboard.com/threads/host1plus-digital-energy-technologies-premium-ip-hoarding-proof-inside.7783/#post-108991
So, what they got charged for exactly? What's the fraud about?
All I can read is "used to deceive ARIN and to fraudulently obtain IP address rights from ARIN" which is not exhaustive enough. We're talking about a $9M fraud so for sure it's something big but not properly described.
@Mad it's against the agreements of most (all?) LIR/RIRs. I can be certain it's against the terms of APNIC.
Those ranges granted to you out of reclaimed final pools are for your use, not for resale. Making false claims to get them, and then renting them does make you liable to loose your membership (and/or legal action). Those ranges are there to help new companies get started, those who can't afford $6k+ (to buy) subnets.
Jesus man, you really are a mercenary :P
Francisco
@SplitIce thanks for explaining; it's somethng I was not aware of.
I suppose it's a particular rule applied only to such "new companies" that take part in this kind of "program", right? Otherwise I don't get the reason for which the resale is being done everywhere and for every LIR/RIR.
Wow, after reading this I hope they don't let him plea out and give him the max. Not only did he defraud ARIN for millions of dollars worth of IPs by using fake companies and documentation only to turn around and sell them to criminals, he tried to sue ARIN because they wouldn't give him more IPs.
@Mad If you own your ranges (legacy) you are free to do what you like. Most recent allocations that have not been purchased privately are not owned, some are not even available for transfer.
All new allocations fall under these terms at APNIC AFAIK. Given the times involved, false statements and the multiple companies I'm suspecting something along these lines.
yea... not as much and not a moment i like much, this was in very low cash times when ex broke up last year - the risk:profit simply was there and i got good karma with the buyer; in the US i would have never touched that.
I keep very grey area but ultimately legal plus avoid dealing in/with US/ARIN as much as i can to just not get into some weird crap and get arrested in transit in some weird ass country with US backing (see: viagra king was arrested on Maldives on a extradition treaty the US secretly dealt out with the dictator while he was there for tourism).
I am solely afraid of the US gov as Israel has a tendency to bomb something flat if you keep citizens - as interpreted by IL gov - illegally. I like that policy and knowing if some whacko North Korean kills me we'll flat the capital (not sit around like the US w/ Warmbier...) gives me a good feeling
So you're saying the difference between sentencing law in US and non-EU country right?
For example if you defraud ARIN, being in Croatia as NON-EU citizen doesn't matter because criminal charges against you can result in Croatian government extradite you at the request of US government.
I am EU citizen as well. I will not be extradited except inside the EU.
Israel does not extradite under any circumstances.
Trust me, i invested a lot in paranoia about such things and plan my travel extra careful just to be sure - because as said, if you end up in the US and they do not want you to leave... you are out of luck, as Russian, as Israeli, as EU citizen.
EDIT: Notably even "in EU" is broken; Poland has an open order since 2011 renewed every 1-2 years and neither Austria nor Croatia care a single bit. Also extradition inside EU only is possible if both countries have a law for what one did; eg. this is why you will never be extradited for tax crimes from Austria.
Although not common, the law permits them to entirely.
Additionally, countries (eg, Canada) has treaties in place with Israel.
https://www.treaty-accord.gc.ca/text-texte.aspx?id=101288
(Disclosure: Israeli citizen, Canadian citizen)
Which is rare generally, yes, but it is not used - especially not if you expect torture (which includes US) or the country does not recognise Israel (half of Asia, all arabs aside Egypt, not like IL would send a citizen to an arab country though).
In other countries i would worry, in ours this law is just paper - precedent are few Russian jews (citizens by immigration, not birth) that just have "pending" extradition cases to Russia/Ukraine.
IIRC the law was specifically implemented to curb underage sex tourism mostly in asia (thus also why very late), the US has something similar also.
As for CA see Articles 2 (defines Gaza/Palestine as not Israeli), 4.A (IL will trial local rather than extradite), 9.B (high burden of proof on gov), 17 (requires essentially a fixed set of offences you go on trial for before extradition). Note also the footnote for crimes 29-34 which are most white collar things. I do not like this treaty and it is fairly solid but it is not used anyway if you 'accept' trial in Israel so kind of moot
Never said i would accept local trial either - but i want to be sentenced and jailed in my home country (or rather, one thereof), not the US which i have zero connection to (even more so if the crime was not committed on US soil or against Americans).
I smell a big audit and new rules/regs coming, it will be an interesting few years following this.
I don't know, I'm pessimistic anything will happen.
There's literally hundreds of "ISP companies" created in Asia just to get IP and to be transferred to use in ARIN. A lot of these have changed hands and legit companies use them. I checked many of these so called ISP address is non existent, provide no service or the address is a random shack house.
As ARIN said, they dont go for legal action for these companies are valid ones who may not know the IP they get is from dirty way.
Even for MicFo CEO, I don't think he will get anything heavy other than some fines and community work.
And what is that supposed to mean?
wired: creating companies in south africa draining them dry (NetStack / H1P for years)
Do you even know what you are talking about?
I've reopened this thread as I'm not entirely sure why it has been closed...
EDIT: I've also
censoreddumped some of the name calling. Let's try to keep it as professional as LET can @Amitz @CVPS_Chris