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Comments
Anthony is a serious, reputable provider. You do seem dodgy though. I hope those 18 USD are spent in Big Tasty's.
Title should change Watsson is a scammer.
After seeing too many threads like this one, I feel that hosts should add this line "If you need refund for any reason, please contact us first, not Paypal" in the first/welcome email.
It is in most ToS but so cares to read the agreement actually ;-).
So what? :v
i am verry agree with this
is this you ? uhhhhh
You moron you are dodgy and shady as fucking hell. You are fraudster
And your the scammer literally you bought an service agreed to the host on an request then opened an paypal dispute
shut the &%*k up
Give this man an PIE
Whoa!
No, but he looks a lot like the guy in my picture aged another 10 years!
@wattson,
From what I can see, your mistake is thinking that a dispute = refund request. They are 2 very different things.
Once you open a dispute, you take the options away from the host, and YOU as a customer lose all credibility. Obviously if you open a dispute, you're not going to be a customer, so they won't try and keep you or help you (why would they bother?). And since you've already escalated to the top, there is nothing more you can do, so again why would they cooperate.
From the host perspective, it costs time and money to deal with. And if the chargeback is successful, may incur a hefty charge-back fee. So again, once it reaches this level, you are basically giving no incentive what so ever for the host to be nice or co-operative. Ultimately, the host will want to just be over with it, so in most cases, will simply terminate and let Paypal decide. Since the funds are 'held' immediately after you open a dispute, the money is already GONE (for the host). But you will need to wait for Paypal to complete their investigation, and why would the host want to help you speed things up when all good will is lost?
From what I have read, you did not get what you ordered and did not get what you were promised. So you are indeed entitled to a full refund. The minute you open a dispute though, the host loses access to that money (meaning your service is now 'unpaid'), so they can really do what they want at that point, including terminate your service and become uncooperative. They owe you nothing at this stage.
@watsson
Maybe it's easier to digest when I, not a provider but a somewhat experienced user, tell you:
a) being right is a question of perspective. That's why pretty often both sides feel to be right.
b) being right is one thing. Getting ones right at a court is a quite different thing.
c) Do you want to be right or do you want a well working server at a hoster who considers you a good client?
So, here are some helpful and well proven rules:
a) make clear arrangements.
b) be sure to have proof. (What you provided first was just some text. That could have been typed as well by your sister.). screenshots are usually the best way.
c) If there are problems, step up the ladder and so not jump any step!
First you try to settle internally, i.e. with the provider.
Next you try to get at someone higher up at the provider.
Next you can try to build up pressure here.
Only if none of those steps achieve an acceptable and reasonable result you do the following:
First you tell the provider that you would hate to but are ready to open a paypal dispute or similar (a hint with an ugly big hammer).
!! Only if the provider shits on that you actually really open an outside dispute or call your money back !!
Reasons:
Margins for most providers are small. Refunds are expensive with most payment forms. And by expensive I mean really expensive (well above the monthly price of many VPSs). So what you did really badly hurts a provider.
There are systems in place where providers can poison you, "reputation" systems many if not most providers look into before accepting a new client. When you force them to refund you through a dispute they'll be enraged and poison you badly.
Finally, keep in mind that most providers, incl. at the rather low end, are not out to fuck you. A little shady sometimes but not scammers. Usually problems arise from them sailing very tight and such with not exactly reliable infrastructure/servers, low end connectivity, and low end reserves. Which - keep that in mind - is why you came here and chose them, too! (at least if you are half way realistic).
The trick is to make them understand that you are not the perfect victim and if needed maybe even a tough nut but that you'll play fair, realistic and with at least some patience.
Plus, keep in mind that you both are in an unfavourable position at the beginning. Once a couple of months have passed and the provider saw that you make no trouble, no spamming, etc., your position will be much, much better.
Time for a title change?
How do you format text on LET? Please tell me the secret.
scam ?
i have vps on their host .
See that little link beneath the textarea box that says Markdown? Yep.
To start off, we usually don't process orders on weekends. Also, the 3rd day, he kept on mentioning would have been on Monday, Jan 30th. However, his order was ready to be upgraded later on Sunday, but instead, that was when he had opened a dispute with PayPal. He could of have, at any time, submitted a support ticket and requested a refund during the 3 day period, which he failed to do so. Needless to say, we were also going to give him 125GB, which is 25GB more, instead of the 100GB he had originally asked for no extra charge, due to the inconvenience that went on.
I'm sorry to hear but this seems like very odd scam due to the fact they delivered a product and you went to paypal directly for refund which = a paypal dispute. You can go to other providers but I'm sure they would do the same thing.
I know you probably thought paypal is faster but in reality they want legit proof and what you showed us isn't proof just email subjects.
I'm not a scammer, it's not like I really care what some of you think, but if it's worth saying
I actually cancelled the paypal dispute (or whatever it's called I can't remember lol) that same day anyways.
I guess I know when to admit that I'm wrong and I'm not afraid to point that out.
Also if it's worth saying, I didn't think it was inconvenient for them to do it on the paypal side but I was just so mad at the time and didn't really know any better which was kind of worse.
I'm sorry to see so much hate in the post, some seem like they really could use therapy even.
They only have 25GB free space on the host node? Why not insert a 128GB microSD card in order to beef up capacity?
It's gracious of you to admit fault. Raising a payment dispute is really a last resort, for when the product is faulty or the provider is unreasonable and not accepting refund requests for under par services.
On the other side of the coin, you should be aware that once you close a dispute it cannot be disputed again. So, maybe the provider can un-cancel your services after you indicating your lack of experience on these things... after all, the communications you had seemed to be polite.
I have had this discussion before on LET and I get that providers hate disputes, but disputes are just part of the PayPal system. I guess I will get a lot of critical responses if I say that if a provider uses PayPal, then he has to live with the dispute system too. If you don't like this as provider, stop accepting PayPal payments, but don't blame buyers for using the PayPal dispute system. It is there to be used and it will be used.
Somebody said: "Paypal dispute IS NOT A REFUND REQUEST"
IMHO it is perfectly legit to use a PayPal dispute as a way to ask for a refund.
What is more correct IMHO is: "A PayPal dispute IS NOT A PAYPAL CLAIM"
As a reference check this:
https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/brc/disputes-claims-chargebacks-and-bank-reversals
Dispute: buyer and seller determine the case outcome
Claim: PayPal determines the case outcome
So, as long as the buyer doesn't raise a dispute to a claim it is just a way of communicating. And yes, it is probably true that part of the buyers will eventually raise a dispute to a claim, but another part won't and there is no need to lose these customers especially if there is a resolution possible.
PayPal says: "The dispute process is an opportunity to resolve issues before they become escalated to a claim".
@watsson did you dispute or did you claim?
You say to just stop using paypal, but it is not that simple. There is a huge part of the market that will simply refuse to signup if paypal is not offered.
A provider has a dedicated support and helpdesk for a reason, to offer support their customers and handle requests, such as refunds. Opening a dispute aggressively forces a provider to go outside of their own help system by ripping the money out of their hands.
You say it is just talking but that is not true, from the moment the paypal dispute is opened the funds for the transaction are no longer available to the provider. In addition opening a dispute damages the providers reputation with their payment processor, even if the dispute is closed without being raised to a claim. Paypal will terminate a seller for having too many disputes, can you not see how this would be an issue if everyone was using it as a support system?
Simply understand that if you intend to use the paypal dispute system for support, expect the provider to not go out of their way to help you as they would via a support ticket. Also expect to likely be blacklisted as a problem client via the various reporting services and being asked to leave. That is simply the reality of how it will most likely play out.
What does it matter if a provider has a dedicated helpdesk? A buyer can and will reach out through the PayPal dispute system too. You can't force them not too and I guess it would be against PayPal rules as well.
As I understand it, the funds of a transaction are only frozen in the case of a claim, not in the case of a dispute. And what does it matter? Better try to resolve the issue the buyer has and win his/her trust
I understand that providers hate PayPal disputes, but the way it is generally handled by providers here just force buyers to claim right away, which isn't a desirable solution for any of the parties.
I am confused why you would want to go around the system that is designed to provide you support. Even paypal agrees with that:
"In most cases, the easiest way to settle a dispute is for buyers and sellers to connect, figure out what happened, and work together to solve it. When this happens, usually no holds are placed on accounts, and customers are kept happy."
Connect with each other via the seller's support system.
I am afraid that would be incorrect, from the moment the dispute is opened the funds are removed from the seller:
"Once a buyer begins the dispute resolution process, we put a hold on that transaction’s funds until things are resolved. If the Buyer and Seller can’t reach an agreement, the dispute can be escalated to a Claim. Then we’ll investigate and make a ruling."
Trust is a two way street. It is not just buyer -> seller. It is seller -> buyer too. Opening a dispute and actively avoiding the support system erodes that trust.
Perhaps you have a misunderstanding on the consequence to both parties when this is done and that's ok, but trust me when I say that it is not the correct way to go about it.
(Quotes taken from: https://www.paypal.com/en/webapps/mpp/security/seller-dispute-resolution )
@M66B It was a dispute. I didn't think it was such an offense for the providers, at the time I couldn't understand why they were so mad. But I was mad too, we all do shit when we're mad I guess.
Anyway, I believe like you say that paypal doesn't even know if you raise a dispute, it has to escalate. I'm relatively new to it, but now that I know, it really doesn't make sense to be so aggressive about a dispute. It doesn't harm the provider's reputation in any way. BUT I agreed to their ToS, so they were in their own right to do what they did.
What really caught my attention was how fast they were to cancel the service! literally like 2 seconds after I registered the dispute and well, the not very friendly mail they sent afterwards treating me like a criminal! :S
>
You and your provider agreed to the ToS of PayPal as well and I don't think the provider's ToS can and should dictate how you use PayPal.
Anyway, it is the unneeded aggression of the providers here as you call it why I commented. Your provider has lost you as a customer, which could easily been prevented with little effort, making you a happy customer.