New on LowEndTalk? Please Register and read our Community Rules.
All new Registrations are manually reviewed and approved, so a short delay after registration may occur before your account becomes active.
All new Registrations are manually reviewed and approved, so a short delay after registration may occur before your account becomes active.
Comments
I think we as providers and users created this community, without it would be nothing that is why it's important they listen to us or everyone will part ways eventually.
The thread was posted in the General section, which does not have auto-sinking enabled - and indeed, at first, it was bumped up. Then overnight, it suddenly stopped being bumped up on replies. There's only one possible explanation for that, and that is that it was manually set to sink.
You're completely missing the point. This isn't about EOR. This is about the complete lack of transparency, shady dealings on multiple topics, things not getting done, and LET becoming more and more of a business rather than a community.
It's highly debatable whether it's "his site" to begin with. He didn't write the forum software, he didn't create the content on the forum, he didn't originally set it up... all he really owns is the domain name, and the implied license to keep publishing the user-submitted content, both of which he gained through a sale that none of the community members had any involvement in, and that has been doubted by quite a few.
This needs more emphasis.
EDIT: Additionally, a potentially useful tip - if you wish to follow the original thread despite some kind of staff decision to make it sink away, go here and click the star next to the title. The thread will be bookmarked and will stay visible in your sidebar.
What kind of site gets bogus legal nonsense and bows and breaks to their bully tactics?
If I coward every time some scary legal thing arrived, I'd never make it out of bed.
The $100 question is why is LET/LEB a legal harassment magnet? Is it due to the offensive comments by some of us? Or the often deserved negative reviews? Or are some providers being slighted wrongly via other mechanisms like the copy that is often negative before an offer?
Clearly, LEB/LET has a problem and I've pointed to it in the past, providing editorial control and inputs from the ownership. If the community was a passive experience where members said whatever, then the ownership would have nearly 0% liability for other folks comments. They'd be a conduit for publishing and little else - a publishing platform. But since they police things randomly, rewrite comments, delete comments, artificially weigh threads, they fall under the definition of a publisher. Plus they produce their own opinion laden comments, which totally exposes them to liability (at least under US law).
@Joepie91 this is the answer to your previous thread, sadly.
!vote everyone turn on adblock go!
However really it is called sink on Vanilla forums allowing discussions to disappear.
Don't surf on the interwebz without it...
I didn't realize LET/LEB had ads for like a month, before I went to it on IE by accident once... AdBlockPlus FTW
http://www.lowendtalk.com/discussion/9094/how-to-block-lowend-ads-and-google-spying-on-your-activity
Provided moderators don't edit the overall meaning of the comments, they're golden. Even if they delete or anchor threads.
Per EFF and Digital Media Law Project.
The hassle @ihatetonyy with the doing any "publishing" is the amount of hands on, what the site does and doesn't "edit" or publish.
Admins posting comments under the same account, reviews by ownership, etc. can be construed as publishing for the benefit of the site, even if "unpaid".
LEB problem is the up front commentary by admins. Bunches of it is negative. Pushes doubt into the sales process. Clearly, they are babysitting, denying offers, editing, backgrounding, etc. That's publishing, no way around it. Fully liable if someone barks about that process.
LET is a lesser problem. More of the admin posting private or as site related in charge person. But, seeing more weighing of threads, threads disappearing for little to no good reason. Clearly the types of actions under publishing.
Of course, they're completely liable for that end by virtue of the fact that they're screening offers and making the choice to publish instead of doing a straight-to-publish thing.
But if they didn't offer some context to an offer -- the man behind the host is a known runner, etc -- I get the feeling the pitchforks would be out because the offers weren't being screened.
Sage goes in every field.
Seriously stop being drama whores.
@ihatetonyy,
Runners are easily policed without being a "publisher".
That would be done by having poster requirements. Minimum number of posts, minimum length of operating business.
Until they meet whatever thresholds, they can't even submit offers.
WHT doesn't police their offers. Surely if outright fraud is reported they will probably pull an ad. Do I see WHT being a problem magnet? No.
If LEB/LET are going to all these lengths where is the value added really? The only value is that the offers meet the thresholds for cost to be included. Same criteria could be used to extract offers from any offer collection/site. The model isn't unique.
I come to LET for the NON PAID offer posts. LET ads, I only see when at some random unprotected computer. Tiny graphic ads blocks aren't real compelling. LEB listings? Very few that meet my criteria for buying in a number of months.
So, I buy from the LET offer posts -- the free ones. Lately crazy offers at low prices. I find some new companies with related services, like Rage4. Other services when I buy, I do so at WHT.
So, the publishing aspect, totally overblown, very little legitimate need to be publishing.
I don't think the publishing aspect is necessarily a bad thing and can even be a good thing, provided it's done transparently. "Publishing" should not be a reason to selectively approve posts, write personally biased things, and so on.
Right on @joepie91.
But the moment you start acting like a publisher, you are liable as a site operator.
A community site should have some baseline rules. Like keep on topic, no spamming, etc. Outside of that and a few be nice rules (usually no hate speech, racism, overt discrimination etc.) there ought not be any touching of anything contributed. That's about it for things that get near the publishing zone.
I'd say that at the very least the "keep on topic" rule doesn't really apply on LowEndTalk. Derailing threads is sort of a signature of LET, and probably for the better.
While I was one of the people who said +1 transparency in the other thread, That said, I don't think creating all this drama is going to achieve anything positive.
But @shovenose, the site is what it is.
The 18-24 male with no degree crowd is notoriously volatile. That's the group we pick soldiers from to prune the male gene pool. It's the group that commits highest age concentration of crime. List goes on and on. This is the age group that the site mainly attracts. We see the evidence of the criminality and youthful insanity from the non stop DDoS. Believe me, rather see DDoS than providers shooting up the competitions servers literally
Sometimes deconstruction needs to happen to make things better.
@pubcrawler - So according to your statement @joepie91 is pretty close to becoming a delinquent. I mean he's unemployed (recently started a begging thread asking for money while trying to justify why he won't get a job), he begs for attention, attacks the staff (badmouths @Chief), and all this while behaving like a Prima donna Drama Queen on her period. Couldn't agree with you more @pubcrawler, well said.
This sort of non-sense captivates a lesser mind pretty fast. Damn @jarland, couldn't have said it better myself :-)
@joepie91 - You're lucky that @Liam or @Chief haven't given you the boot yet, however I have the strange feeling that you're not to far from that. If you don't like how things are being done here and this community in general then why don't you start your own? Trust me, no one will try to stop you...
Chill out guys. It will happen, when it will. Chief, being the owner of a privately held website, has every right to do what ever he wants. I know I haven't been here long enough, but you have to understand that the ownership has been changed and we as a regular non paying user have nothing to say about it. This is the truth. Bring in your lowend lawyers or "we the people" slogans. When you want to start a revolution, you either make it or break it and with the way things are going, I am seeing a break rather than break outcome. Anyway, enjoy
. This video is my real reaction to this thread to be honest.
The fault of @joepie91's is to care.
All he wants to get the LET back in the days that was about running things in bare minimum environment and a community that makes intelligent conversations while still being cozy and casual.
He wants more transparent management since he sees this website as a community website, not some business.
Today, my observation of LET is a marketplace where providers spam threads like "Looking for VPS" like vultures and counting minutes to get their next offer to be published.
I would love to see something like that.
Sad but true. This is the nature of human being. Love it or hate it.
Settlers moved into empty land, created market place, destroyed mother nature and then complained why we have global worming. Immigrants moved into America, built America while neglecting true , real American's (Red indians) and now are complaining about immigration and people from other country moving in. Same thing happened here.
@NHRoel Dey terk err jerbs!
I love LET/LEB, they're great sites that benefit both the average visitor seeking a VPS or help getting things working properly as well as great for the providers who fund their existence and in return get sales from these sources. I agree that some things can be done differently, but I really don't care too much. This is internet. No true 'original' site exists. The content on here that is helpful can be accessed by different means, written by different individuals in other parts of the net.
It's convenient that this place exists, but everyone is free to frequent the sites they want.
Most likely not going to happen (I'm not saying that's either a good or a bad thing). Communities change (like a forest) and there's not much you can do about it. I've seen it happen several times now and there's always those who kick and scream and eventually leave. The majority, however, is usually satisfied and stays
Wow. Imagine that someone actually thought about things before assuming that the most common practice is also the most ethical! That would be horrible!
Whether he owns the website or not is very disputable. The forum software is owned by the developers of Vanilla Forums, the content is owned by the users, and the domain name is of questionable value.
Whoa, one moment there. First off, we are not "non paying users" - users are paying for this site through the ads (monetary) and their contributions (non-monetary). Second off, I fail to see how an 'ownership change' in any way justifies community-hostile changes on a community-run website.
As for all the "there's nothing you can do about it" - you know why? Because that's what you keep using as an excuse not to do anything about it. You're not just observing the problem, you're a part of it.
Nope, it's licensed under GPL v2 so technically there are no proprietary "owners" of the code.
Uh, I'm afraid you don't understand how copyright and licensing works. A license is just that - a license. It does not remove or change ownership. The forum software is still owned by the developers (or whatever organization they have allowed to represent them).
@joepie91 has always been a good person to me. That said, his life and way of going about it is contrary to the mill mindset of head down slaving and get a job. I like his attempts to live alternatively. Respect that I do.
I think it is fair for anyone to question anything in what is being purported to be a community. Ad revenue is directly related to the viewers. Ads are well, ideally dirty, but often necessary. Although here, aside from the revenue production, not really necessary.
The problem is what the community was vs. what it has become. It is a pre-Chief vs. post-Chief thing. It's the collaboration with some providers on the backside that folks caught and know isn't kosher.
Lately, it's the thread weighting and monkeying with the system to dampen insurrection.
In order to have a community, you need to foster such and maintain it.
Liam has been doing good, but he has limited powers/access.
Hopefully the site ownership comes up with ways to be more transparent and foster growth. The giveaways are a good start. The host in a box giveaway was a good idea, although seems that company is never going to come to market. Creating more structured offers, search that works, more community leaders, etc. that's some of the stuff I hope they do.
I agree with @joepie91
With LEA there were no financial motives but he was an active participant on LEB and LET . With Chief there are massive financial motives but he seems non existent on both sites.
I take my hat off to @Liam though who has really done great things with the site in Chief's absense.