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Currency
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Currency

SplitIceSplitIce Member, Host Rep
edited January 2016 in General

Hey All. Long time since I last posted, time to end this lurking. :)

  1. How do people feel about being billed for online networked services (VPS, Dedicated Servers etc) in currencies other than $USD (i.e $AUD)? Do you view it as a negative?
  2. What about if it is advertised in $USD and you are billed in say $CAD to the equivalent value? (Of course with appropriate legal requirements i.e the infamous "*")
  3. What about if you got a discount for paying in ${alternate currency}?

Very curious to hear peoples opinions. Please also include if you are living in the US or a $USD based country, or consider $USD your primary currency or not.

Discuss.

Thanked by 1ManofServer
Vanilla Sucks!
  1. The Above.36 votes
    1. I'll buy your {service} in {alternate curreny}
      19.44%
    2. Sure, what does it matter (i.e dont care)
      38.89%
    3. Only if you make it worth my while (i.e discount)
        8.33%
    4. If I have to (only if no choice)
      19.44%
    5. Never!!!
      13.89%
«1

Comments

  • linuxthefishlinuxthefish Member
    edited January 2016

    Most people know £, $ or euros but AUD is confusing and Australian. I think you can add more than one currency in WHMCS anyway?

    Just add the top currencies from whereever you have the most orders, or stick with $ USD.

    EDIT: If it's a discount who cares about the currency, any discount is a good discount!

  • We should all be fair in bill in CAD, it's falling super fast, so we all get neat discounts.

  • KuJoeKuJoe Member, Host Rep

    +1 for USD or at least put the conversion somewhere on the order page/site so I don't have to open a new tab to look it up. :D

    Thanked by 1netomx
  • @KuJoe said:
    +1 for USD or at least put the conversion somewhere on the order page/site so I don't have to open a new tab to look it up. :D

    For some currencies, they change quite quickly, you would have to update that regurlaly to avoid complaints lol

  • I thought WHMCS had all of this built in?

    1. I've never paid anything in AUD in my whole life.
    2. I'd expect to pay in USD if advertised as so.
    3. It would be nice, but no.

    I'd like to pay whatever amount in whatever currency it is advertised.
    I'd like to pay in my own currency as it won't have any conversion fee by the credit card company.

    Thanked by 1doughmanes
  • perennateperennate Member, Host Rep
    edited January 2016

    I think my credit card company will charge fee for the conversion? I'm not sure but to be safe I probably wouldn't pay non-USD (I am US).

    And also I can pay with Paypal, but Paypal's conversion rates are also not good.

  • KuJoeKuJoe Member, Host Rep

    @ALinuxNinja said:
    For some currencies, they change quite quickly, you would have to update that regurlaly to avoid complaints lol

    An estimate is fine but I know there has to be scripts out there than can convert in realtime also.

  • perennateperennate Member, Host Rep
    edited January 2016

    KuJoe said: An estimate is fine but I know there has to be scripts out there than can convert in realtime also.

    http://fixer.io/ is great API for this. They get data from European Central Bank.

  • SplitIceSplitIce Member, Host Rep
    edited January 2016

    Fixed the Poll.

    linuxthefish said: Most people know £, $ or euros but AUD is confusing and Australian. I think you can add more than one currency in WHMCS anyway?

    Not an issue if you dont use WHMCS.

    KuJoe said: +1 for USD or at least put the conversion somewhere on the order page/site so I don't have to open a new tab to look it up. :D

    If implemented I think prices would be in $USD, at Invoice Payment time choice would be given (and a 1-3% discount or bonus is easily doable which people might like).

    Personally, I would think I would pull the Paypal exchange rates and just be done with it. $AUD -> $USD for example isnt too turbulent minute to minute (micro percents).

    ALinuxNinja said: For some currencies, they change quite quickly, you would have to update that regurlaly to avoid complaints lol

    If its optional people should have a choice. Although honestly I can see how if it was forced it might peeve some people (I have the full spectrum of options in the Poll)

  • SplitIceSplitIce Member, Host Rep

    perennate said: I think my credit card company will charge fee for the conversion? I'm not sure but to be safe I probably wouldn't pay non-USD (I am US).

    And also I can pay with Paypal, but Paypal's conversion rates are also not good.

    This is life for the other 90% :(

    Paypals conversion rates are average, but the one they display includes the (local region) fee for the conversion i.e 3% fee.

    Its often best to charge your credit card instead, which is often less (I think my most expensive card is 2%, the one linked to paypal 0%).

    Thanked by 1netomx
  • Why do you want people to pay in other currencies (other than usd for example) ?

  • SplitIceSplitIce Member, Host Rep
    edited January 2016

    @dotted Why fees of course. Those who are running a business in a foreign currency will always pay more in Fees (currency conversion, intl transaction fees, cross-border fees).

    The back of the envelope calculation done with the help of our accountant for example estimates this at around 6 - 7%. Money that could easily be taken from large Corp and given back to the buyer (if buyer converting from $Local -> $USD in the first place).

    Please people remember to include if you are US or not. Its one of the most important factors I am hypothesizing. My current hypothesis is that Non-US Buyers wouldn't care if it was optional, and that the discount / credit would be appreciated by many (better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick ey?).

    From the research done locally (done for "if billed in $CAD") no one cares, they already have to deal with a foreign currency.

  • perennateperennate Member, Host Rep
    edited January 2016

    SplitIce said: Why fees of course. Those who are running a business in a foreign currency will always pay more in Fees (currency conversion, intl transaction fees, cross-border fees).

    Many Canadian companies, especially for hosting industry, have large USD expenses, so they may not have to actually convert USD payments to CAD. I'm also not aware of any international transaction fees / cross-border fees for most customers due to trade agreements (and I don't think accepting CAD would help at all for such fees).

    SplitIce said: From the research done locally (done for "if billed in $CAD") no one cares, they already have to deal with a foreign currency.

    From what I know most Canadians would prefer to pay in CAD/USD (maybe also EUR) than in other currencies since they anyway will probably be making lots of other USD payments. When you add in additional currencies, the accounting gets more complicated.

  • agoldenbergagoldenberg Member, Host Rep

    I'm a Canadian web host that bills in CAD but I wish I had started with billing in USD now that our dollar is worth about $0.62 USD with paypals terrible fucking exchange rate. When the dollar recovers I'll make a decent profit but for now I'm at least able to keep the lights on lol.

    Thanked by 1FlamesRunner
  • GoatSellerGoatSeller Member
    edited January 2016

    @Splitlce

    Your services, their pricing and their currencies should take in consideration the clients, so, if most of them are local, AUS is your choice, if not, then their currency (usd, eur, ...).

    But if you are expanding your services (keeping your local clients and getting new foreign ones) you either :

    • Accept the exchange fees as expenses and the difference as income/expenses (separating the two activities for better analytics)

    • Optimize your cash management by creating a new bank account with the target currency.

    • Create a second company with whatever currency your target clients prefer/use.

    I'm a Non-US buyer but my accounts are in USD and I prefer to buy in USD.

  • rm_rm_ Member
    edited January 2016

    SplitIce said: Paypals conversion rates are average

    They are a highway robbery. For example today's forex rate for EURUSD is 1.10, but Paypal converts at...

    1 EUR = 1,04664 USD

    For this reason alone I will actively prefer services which can charge from Paypal without involving Paypal conversion: i.e. do not EVER rely on it as a provider/seller, have your own prices in EUR and USD at least, and calculate those at fair conversion rates.

    Thanked by 1netomx
  • SplitIceSplitIce Member, Host Rep

    @agoldenberg

    Your paying for your Canadian services, Staff (and other large expenses) in $USD? Perhaps you should lock your prices to $USD (either manually or automatically).

    @perennate

    Research done with Australians and Russians regarding conversion of Ruble -> $CAD or $AUD -> $CAD. Those who already do a conversion as part of purchase, the Russians where particularly interested in the cash-back via account credit / discounts (for some people its a sizable amount).

    Accounting isnt that much more complicated really, at-least here it has to be done in $AUD regardless. So payments in $USD have to get converted ("in a consistent way"), I know a business who immediately converts the Paypal balance at time of sale (my accountant says this isnt necessary/overkill).

    Thanked by 1perennate
  • perennateperennate Member, Host Rep

    SplitIce said: Research done with Australians and Russians regarding conversion of Ruble -> $CAD or $AUD -> $CAD.

    Ah I see.

  • SplitIceSplitIce Member, Host Rep

    @rm_ said:
    For this reason alone I will actively prefer services which can charge from Paypal without involving Paypal conversion: i.e. do not EVER rely on it as a provider/seller, have your own prices in EUR and USD at least, and calculate those at fair conversion rates.

    Disclaimer: I am not an expert in this, this is my understanding.

    Its off-topic but todays midmarket rates are, 1 USD:1.08963 EUR. Paypal uses rates set by banks, which are typically lower value than what the currency is being traded at. They will likely hence be slightly lower than the midmarket rate (although they probably pocket the difference). P.S Visa's exchange rate would likely be more comparable to the expected base value however their site is broken.

    Assuming your (local) fee is 3% (thats AU's), thats 1 USD: 1.0569411 EUR

    Paypal is 1 EUR = 1.04664 USD aparently, so thats $0.01 out from the mid-market rate.

    Now take a bank, Bank of America (no affiliation, just the only one whoes name I know). $USD -> EUR 1:1.0343, then apply 3% fee 1:1.003, so thats approx $0.04 worse. Thats a robbery!

  • perennate said: And also I can pay with Paypal, but Paypal's conversion rates are also not good.

    You should look into Revolut. You just top it up with your local currency and then they'll convert the currency on-the-fly as needed to very good exchange rates. You just have to tell Paypal to not do any money conversation when using the Revolut MC to pay.

  • SplitIceSplitIce Member, Host Rep
    edited January 2016

    @rm_

    3% might be lenient too, looking at the 2015/2016 terms summary its 3.5% or 4% depending on destination.

    @gsrdgrdghd

    Looks nice, but there are plenty of options in AU already once you get a VISA funded.

    Doesnt help those who take Paypal payments however, or for transfers into business savings, or wages in local currency.

    For Australians theres also 28 Degrees (Backed by GE Money) & Bank West Orange (with rewards). Unless there is a US bank account tied to it you can fund it with? Otherwise it has to go Paypal ($USD) -> AU Bank ($AUD) -> Revolut. Cards like that help with $AUD (i.e from bank) -> $USD though.

  • rm_rm_ Member
    edited January 2016

    SplitIce said: Assuming your (local) fee is 3%

    Separate "currency conversion fee" does not exist here in Russia at all (let alone as high as few percents); most cards just convert by their issuing bank's rate, which admittedly crappier than the mid-market, is still better than Paypal's. E.g. one bank here, conversion rate for card purchases today: EUR/USD Buy 1,07 Sell 1,11.
    And there are several card offers which convert (well, from roubles) both without fee, and using the Central Bank's official exchange rate (i.e. the best possible). Point is, paying (and over-paying) just for currency conversion is not something that everybody in the world is used to.

    As for an example of a provider following my advice. OneProvider's "$5" VM plan is listed in their panel as 4.60€ per month for me. That's 1.08695 USD per Euro, about exactly at the best rate that you quoted.

    Thanked by 1netomx
  • SplitIceSplitIce Member, Host Rep
    edited January 2016

    rm_ said: Assuming your (local) fee is 3%

    Your local fee is your local (in paypal) fee. I would guess you have this. Its integrated into the rate as explained.

    From the Paypal AU fees and charges summary "18.10 We process currency conversions using the prevailing wholesale exchange rate plus a percentage currency conversion fee which is retained by us."

    At purchase time Paypal offers 1:1.04, I would consider this 'fairly' reasonable. Not the worst, but certainly not the best. However its fairly uniform between currencies.

    If you convert RUB -> $USD, we convert $USD -> $AUD the only person who wins is Paypal. Wouldn't you rather convert RUB->$AUD (for product value - 2%, a 2% discount)? Product value determined via $USD -> $AUD, according to the same source (Paypal).

  • Shoaib_AShoaib_A Member
    edited January 2016

    As long as the product/service is of good quality, satisfies a need/want & creates value, it doesn't matter if I am asked to pay in AUD, USD, EUR, GBP, CAD or whatever currency.

  • desperanddesperand Member
    edited January 2016

    paypal conversion rate is based on country, not on their local politic rules.
    If you have good country, there are will be 3-4%, in shitty countries like Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Moldova, Kazakhstan, and few Baltic republic -> you will loose a lot of % on conversations, sometimes you can loose up to 20%.

    (i'm not trying to insult people, that is true, and i'm talking about government, and not people)

  • shafireshafire Member
    edited January 2016

    My credit card issuer does not charge any fees and is using the official MasterCard Rates https://www.mastercard.com/global/currencyconversion/. You can even check the currency rate up front! For today: EUR/USD 1.088700 and EUR/RUB 86.464524 (whats the exchange rate on the street, @rm_?)

    Most times the exchange rates from MasterCard are better than from VISA (https://www.visaeurope.com/making-payments/exchange-rates).
    EUR/USD 1.0858 and EUR/RUB 84.7619048265

    But in my country we have no currency exchange offices. To buy any Dollars from a branch bank without getting ripped off is impossible.

  • @agoldenberg said:
    now that our dollar is worth about $0.62 USD

    Don't remind me, $0.69 currently and expected to fall to $0.59 and sit there for a couple years.

    @perennate said:
    I think my credit card company will charge fee for the conversion? I'm not sure but to be safe I probably wouldn't pay non-USD (I am US).

    Kinda off-topic, but I got a Revolut card (pre-paid/virtual MasterCard) and you can load it up with USD, GBP or EUR and when it converts to another currency it does it at market rate.

    I made a payment in CAD with a USD balance and the conversion was like $0.02 off market rate, with my bank it would've been closer to $1.10 difference based on their currency exchange fees.

  • I am currently paying $43.00 CAD in extra exchange fees per month which I cannot continue to do so. Unfortunately for some of my US based providers of which many, advertise and participate here, I will not be renewing these as they come up for payment. On the other hand, providers such as Mycustomhosting and Ramnode provide exceptional products and services that I will continue to keep them as providers even though they invoice in USD dollars.

    Not publicly knocking any company but I know of some Canadian providers who operate out of OVH in Quebec or other Canadian data centers yet claim they need to invoice in USD. One of these providers lives here in Canada about 10 minutes away from me.

    Luckily there are still some Canadian based vps and hosting providers that invoice in CAD dollars and I am in the process of migrating my business to them until the CAD dollar recovers, which may take some years.

  • I'd love to have pricing in AUD.

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