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Trademark Violation
VPSSoldiers
Member
So, I just received an email stating that I was violating a trademark because someone has trademarked the term "VPS" the USPTO lists their trademark as "computer programs for printer support systems and manuals therefore, both sold together"
Trademark Registration Number: 1664890
Here is the letter I received.
The purpose of this letter is to inform you that Levi, Ray & Shoup, Inc. owns the registered trademark VPS. Attached is a copy of our Certificate of Registration. Besides having VPS registered as trademark in the United States, we have also registered it in many countries throughout the world.
I’m writing this letter for two reasons: First, to simply inform you of our registered trademark; and, second, to ask you to send us some basic information concerning your company, VPS Solutions, LLC, and the anticipated use of the domain names, vpssolutions.net and vpssolutions.org. We need to assure ourselves that there is no possibility of confusion in the marketplace resulting from either. Unless you are in the information technology industry, I do not think there will be a problem.
I look forward to hearing from you. Thank you.
It appears I will be receiving this notice via snail mail as well. Just thought I would share with you all.
Comments
Thanks for keeping us in the loop.
Should not matter; wrong category and generic term.
I agree, I would be more concerned if the trademark was actually defined as Virtual Private Server or something pertaining to a VPS not VATAM Printer Support.
This could be new kenya scam method. Can you check the IP in headers?
Received: from ITEX1.lrsinc.org (10.96.50.161) by ITEX1.lrsinc.org
(10.96.50.161) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1076.9; Wed, 30 Sep
2015 16:11:35 -0500
Received: from ITEX1.lrsinc.org ([fe80::d0ed:bdd2:f2b1:a0e2]) by
ITEX1.lrsinc.org ([fe80::d0ed:bdd2:f2b1:a0e2%15]) with mapi id
15.00.1076.000; Wed, 30 Sep 2015 16:11:35 -0500
Did you research if it is a known USPTO troll at http://eff.org ? Maybe send them your letter, they may defend it, they love this stuff.
Is there a way to search? I found one for patents but not trademarks.
My Spidey sense is tingling… sounds bogus, the wording of the letter is unprofessional. Can you publish the purpoted certificate that came attached?
My Spidey sense is tingling… sounds bogus, the wording of the letter is unprofessional. Can you publish the purpoted certificate that came attached?
My Spidey sense is tingling… sounds bogus, the wording of the letter is unprofessional. Can you publish the purpoted certificate that came attached?
Your spider sense tingle 3 times?!
generic term can be registered as trademark? maybe register cpu or processor or network as one so you'll be monopoly.
@aglodek care to be more careful posting next time :-)?
I would pdf the letter when it arrives, or forward EFF the email then follow up with the pdf of the letter. The claim VPS is a trademark for all of IT is overbroad and a single letter from EFF will make these guys tuck their tail between their legs and whimper off or risk losing their trademark if it goes further.
I always make a $100 donation to EFF every year since they don't hesitate standing up for the little guy when warranted. And worse case, they refer you to an attorney who will do the same if EFF declines.
It sometimes happens when Spider-Man gets fucked up on crack.
Or f*#!ed up on GFW rather
Apologies, everyone. Connection issues from inside China. Getting worse by the day. Can't even fix that… Edit function not working… LET's JS getting filtered by GFW most of the time
Its a valid trademark per the USPTO initially registered in 1991.
Everything that was attached in the email is here http://other.vpssoldiers.net this includes the letter (.doc)that I took the quote above from. The only thing I did was remove the email from it.
I'm not 100% sure that its real but at the same time I'm not completely sure I want to take the chance either... Especially since its so generic it could be anyone next time if they were to get away with it once.
I just forwarded the documents to the EFF also asking for what I should respond back to this company as I don't want it to bite me or anyone else later down the road. This whole thing seems like a joke.. I don't get how you can trademark VPS, I mean come-on,
I'm gonna trademark hosting in the morning... ;P
New thought... I now realize I've seen this company somewhere before...
You couldn't today. The point is they trademarked it before VPS was a brand-neutral term for a specific class of hosting technologies.
In theory, you should've checked trademark status of "VPS" before registering domains that just add "solutions" to "VPS". Though I can't blame you for assuming it's generic.
Now regarding the trademark not pertaining to hosting, the effectiveness of such an argument requires real legal counsel by someone actually competent in trademark law, which usually requires money
I wouldn't just assume being in a different field makes you free to use their trademark. If the Microsoft trademark is in the computer software field, can you sell "Microsoft" gloves? Or "Microsoft" shoe shines? Probably not.
I think arguing that VPS is now a generic term for a type of product/service, and does not indicate a source, is probably the better argument. Still, in court, you'd have to prove it. Screen captures from dozens of different VPS vendor sites, maybe?
But think of the other people that could be hit by this as well. There are lots of companies that I have seen that are VPS blah or blah VPS but like I said the way the wording on the trademark is it is for something completely different and I'm waiting for a reply from the EFF, hopefully they can assist me or recommend a lawyer...
Here is what http://tsdr.uspto.gov searching for registration number 1664890 returns:
Goods & Services: For: computer programs for printer support systems and manuals therefore, both sold together
When it comes to this kind of stuff I'm just clueless but looking at what it is listed "for" it shouldn't be an issue.
But then it comes into question if it can't be in my name because its a trademark then what about someone selling a KVM VPS on their website, they would of just violated the trademark as well. I haven't looked in other countries trademark systems but from the sounds of the letter this could expand past the scope of just the US based companies.
Another thing I wonder, since I used a legal service I would think (and I'm pretty sure they did) a check to make sure I wasn't violating any trademarks other legal things though I can't find where it says that right now.
Different field = no worries. Different region/country = no worries. Different domain ("VPS" != "vpssolutions") = no worries. All three differing = totally no worries. In your shoes (been there, done that), I'd ignore them.
Actually, nowadays, it is generic, their TM registration (if valid) notwithstanding. This makes the "vps" vs. "vpssolutions" casus very different from, say, "microsoft" vs. "microsoftsolutions" (even assuming same field of activity).
Lol, I'm not sure any of those equals "no worries". Try opening a burger stand called "Microsoft Burgers" with microsoftburgerstand.com as a site for it and you will have worries soon.
A lot of times these trolls will actually file suit, hoping you'll settle for less than the cost of a decent lawyer, even if they know they can't win if you fight it.
That being said, they haven't threatened a lawsuit, all they said they want at this stage is some basic info about your company and I would reply honestly and courteously (pointing out that your business is not related to printing) and see where things go from there (hopefully no-where).
Not replying has the advantage, however, of not admitting that you are aware of their trademark (assuming they didn't send registered mail and have your signature for it or something).
I agree, but beings it could become something to worry about I want to make sure I word it correctly and to be completely honest I'm pretty irritated with them at this point and time mainly because I can't get over the fact that VPS is a trademark (yes I know it was in the early 90s but still & they renewed it in 2010) so I don't want to end up sending something that I would regret in the future but I'm still curious if they are going after me whats to stop them from going after someone selling a product called KVM VPS because if I'm looking at it their way, they would see that as a violation as well... Maybe I should just change my LLC but then I assume they could go after me for using vpssoldiers.net/.com/.info/.org as well so I think really listening to someone's legal view on this matter would be better suited for me (now) and maybe someone else in the future.
I also want to keep this updated so that if someone else runs into something similar (or the same thing) they will have a place to look. (I will also be writing about this in my personal blog so the 5 people who read it will know how peeved I am too :P ).
As they stated they are trademarked outside of the US as well, though I wouldn't even know where to begin on that search.
It also concerns me that various articles on this company state "Levi, Ray & Shoup is a Springfield-based company that provides information technology and Web services." and that makes me think they are just starting this big VPS ordeal (why they start with probably the smallest host out there I don't understand unless they are just trying to see if they can get away with it).
Maybe they just want my domain names for a new service they are rolling out (though if thats the case they should start with the person in Vietnam who has the .com).
I may wait to reply until I get the notice via snail mail (though I'm assuming since they have my address on that .doc they will be mailing me something as well)
I guess I should've said "untrademarked" rather than "generic".
Problem is, they have a trademark, so you probably have the burden of proof to show it's generic. One would need to talk to a real lawyer, not just a lowendlawyer to understand what kind of proof would need to gathered to convince a court that "VPS" is generic. Just standing in front of a judge and saying "everyone knows it's generic" probably isn't going to cut it.
Wouldn't it be nice if it would...
ctrl+f for vps
https://www.lrs.com/eom/PDF/wp-White-Paper/wp-VPS-Strategy-english.pdf
"Our core product, VPS (VTAM Printer Support), illu
strates our philosophy of Enterprise Output
Management. VPS runs on the OS/390 host (itself
a standard) and, using a variety of extension
products, routes host output to devi
ces that would otherwise be completely incompatible with the
host. A popular VPS extension, for example, sends
host output directly to printers via TCP/IP,
which has become the standard netw
orking protocol in business today."
Fucking lawyer probably didn't even bother to look at your website when comparing their VPS: VTAM Printer Support vs Virtual Private Servers.
You're not infringing on a fucking vtam printer support solutions, you're using 3 letters in another fucking meaning which has nothing to do with the technology acronym LRS has trademarked.
I'd either ignore their letter and not reply or contact a lawyer when they try to sue you. Until a court order comes in, there's no point bothering about this since you're not infringing on the trademark.
If you go to a lawyer, in the first free hour(or whatever they time-frame they offer as a free client bait) will be meaningless.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generic_trademark
Still, you can always a lawyer an hour or two just to go over whether they'd stand a chance plus you could determine whether the lawyer would stand up to you in court.
You could try the https://www.lawsociety.org.uk/support-services/law-society-consulting/contact/ , but I don't really think they'd offer any serious advice over the phone.
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US and international laws about copyright are more or less, clear for such cases. Except a company that is able to hold a copyright logo or word for all uses (something that is extremely rear, difficult enough and very, but veeery costly, e.g. cocacola), all other copyrights are for certain uses of a word in certain fields.
In your case, a company cannot use VPS inside US for selling software for printing support. But, it can be used to open a burger shop (e.g. Vitamins Proteins Sauces), a travel agency (Very Passionate Staying) or VPS as we know it (Virtual Private Server).
More over, a company that just uses VPS in their logo adding other words, like yours, is a completely different corporation entity and they cannot threat you for copyright issues at all.
Do mention that there are cases in US and in EU, that companies have convicted for threaten other companies for false copyrights. There is a certain case in EU that a "company" threatened frequently other companies (including mine) for a word logo, trying to gain money as a compensation. We got in court and earn a fair compensation from them (10.000€ for false threatens about copyright).
So, If I were you, I would send them a polite letter saying that VPS is a generic term that has been used globally for long time now, that Wikipedia has a term for VPS, that if you google vps you will not find his company in the first, let's say, 10.000 results and that 1000's of companies around the world uses this term. And, if he keep sending you letters claiming that VPS term cannot be used by you, you will ask your lawyer to sue him for false requirement.