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Comments

  • @joepie91 said:
    EDIT: It's fucking 2015. Why are we still having this discussion? Come on.

    Scroll back and read. At no point was I advocating password auth.

    I get the impression, that this was the unintentional strawman you were arguing against.

    Keys rule. Keep them on you at all times.

    Firewalls keep the other random crap out. (don't use them as a crutch)

    I'm going to address an old comment of yours now:

    My hardware (along with my SSH keys) was seized by police a while ago, and I still have access to my systems.

    Depending on legal jurisdiction, LEA/stasi can force you to reveal keys or face jail/$5 spanner.

    Not everyone is governed by US Bill of rights.

    Here is where creativity can delay the oppression and give your side some time.

    TLDR: I am both pro-keys and pro-obscurity. (in that exact order)

  • classyclassy Member

    vimalware said: Depending on legal jurisdiction, LEA/stasi can force you to reveal keys or face jail/$5 spanner.

    Not everyone is governed by US Bill of rights.
    Here is where creativity can delay the oppression and give your side some time.

    TLDR: I am both pro-keys and pro-obscurity. (in that exact order)

    @joepie91 isn't governed by the US Bill of rights. He lives in the Netherlands. He just had copies of his keys I believe.

    Thanked by 1vimalware
  • vimalware said: Scroll back and read. At no point was I advocating password auth.

    I get the impression, that this was the unintentional strawman you were arguing against.
    Keys rule. Keep them on you at all times.
    Firewalls keep the other random crap out. (don't use them as a crutch)

    I wasn't arguing against passwords in that response. I was arguing against "a sequence of events".

    vimalware said: Depending on legal jurisdiction, LEA/stasi can force you to reveal keys or face jail/$5 spanner.

    Not everyone is governed by US Bill of rights.
    Here is where creativity can delay the oppression and give your side some time.

    Again, that's not what I was arguing about. You should really read the quotes better. I was responding very specifically to the suggestion of lost keys being a problem.

    vimalware said: TLDR: I am both pro-keys and pro-obscurity. (in that exact order)

    And that is what I am arguing against.

    classy said: He just had copies of his keys I believe.

    I didn't. I just recovered access to my servers through various control panels / VNCs and set a new key.

  • @joepie91 said:
    And that is what I am arguing against.

    1) What's your take on port knocking secret sequences (to open :22 for 3 secs) ...

    specifically, if paired with iptables port-scan detect-AND-block rules, on the host?

    My thinking now goes... this would help increase the patch time-window against hypothetical Openssh zero-days, an order of magnitude better than a non-default ssh port.

    (I guess the zero-day would have to be something that can cause buffer overflow even with key-auth ON .
    a history of openssh vulns: http://www.cvedetails.com/product/585/Openbsd-Openssh.html?vendor_id=97)

    2)In the case of a iptables whitelisted ssh-bastion-host, Is 2-factor auth (google?) worth looking at?

  • I believe that a conservative and standards based approach is the best. (insert well known reasons) Obscurity, although lots of fun, doesn't really work with that philosophy.

  • joepie91joepie91 Member
    edited June 2015

    vimalware said: 1) What's your take on port knocking secret sequences (to open :22 for 3 secs) ...

    specifically, if paired with iptables port-scan detect-AND-block rules, on the host?

    Given the limited port keyspace, it's very feasible to just distribute bruteforcing across a bunch of compromised machines, so that you don't hit such a portscan detection. Even if every attacker system only tried one port on a host, obtaining 65k compromised systems is not terribly hard.

    Any attacker who either 1) portscans for SSH or 2) attempts to exploit a zeroday vulnerability is likely to be using the above approach.

    vimalware said: My thinking now goes... this would help increase the patch time-window against hypothetical Openssh zero-days, an order of magnitude better than a non-default ssh port.

    (I guess the zero-day would have to be something that can cause buffer overflow even with key-auth ON .
    a history of openssh vulns: http://www.cvedetails.com/product/585/Openbsd-Openssh.html?vendor_id=97)

    That's an extremely rare edgecase. Sure, you could try to protect against that with the above approach, but I strongly doubt whether it's worth the trade-off of inconvenience and a (mostly false) sense of security.

    vimalware said: 2)In the case of a iptables whitelisted ssh-bastion-host, Is 2-factor auth (google?) worth looking at?

    Yeah, but not Google Authenticator. It's proprietary, unfortunately.

    Also keep in mind the drawback of potentially making (semi-)automated processes over SSH harder, such as tunneling something else (like rsync) over it.

    Thanked by 1vimalware
  • @joepie91 said:
    Yeah, but not Google Authenticator. It's proprietary, unfortunately.

    https://github.com/google/google-authenticator

    Thanked by 1vimalware
  • joepie91joepie91 Member
    edited June 2015

    I am aware. From the Android app README:

    This project is an older fork of the one on the Play store. It's an older version that doesn't get changes synced to it from the Play store version.

    In other words, they've turned it proprietary, and the open-source version is unmaintained.

    See also here.

    Thanked by 1deadbeef
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