Providers, please stop engaging in spam. Newsletters should be opt-in with opt-out. (Prometeus)

comXyz

Hmm, I just can see Prometeus is doing their job well, and got a free advertising on LET.

Jonchun

@WubTheCaptain said:
Disagreed. It shows respect for one's rights, and while unrelated providers also have legal protection for the controversial content hosted. You don't need a shady offshore provider for that. But you're right, RamNode followed their TOS and did what the client had agreed to during signup. Not that I agree the decision was right anyway.

What? No one cares whether you disagree with it or not. It's THEIR ToS, and THEY are the ones that decide what hurts/helps their public image.

Now, I've asked twice already but you've refused to acknowledge it. Please make a direct response trying to argue against this statement.

The client’s Email address will only be used for information on orders...

.

You had an order with them. They notified you about a security issue with your order with them, thus providing you information about your order. I'm not sure why you're having trouble understanding this.

Nomad

I don't see how this is considered as spam since they're important mails regarding your service. Sometimes information about a vulnerability, sometimes informing you about new policies.

If it were about new products or a mail order bride, i'ld have understood. But these mails can contain critical information as well. So they can't be considered as abln opt-outable mail to me.

There is no crime in that.
This is more like in the category of "Here's your new login URL" rather than "Get a free copy yourself."

Stop digging in between words and move on to next sentence please.

jcaleb

Kudos to uncle Sal and John for their great patience in handling the ticket.

jcaleb

@WubTheCaptain just say no to drugs. it is good for your mental health

WubTheCaptain

@Jonchun The argument is so silly it doesn't really need a reply. The latter part of the TOS is important, and just subjective to Prometeus which does not have much to do with this thread. The issue is explicit permission and lack of transparency.

There's a border between a notice posted that I voluntarily read - with explicit and deliberate will at my request - and something that has been shoved in my throat with force. That doesn't change that unsolicited bulk email is still spam. I'm not sure why you're having trouble understanding this.

joepie91

@WubTheCaptain I think you're mistaking disagreement for misunderstanding.

Jonchun

@WubTheCaptain said:
Jonchun The argument is so silly it doesn't really need a reply. The latter part of the TOS is important, and just subjective to Prometeus which does not have much to do with this thread. The issue is explicit permission and lack of transparency.

There's a border between a notice posted that I voluntarily read - with explicit and deliberate will at my request - and something that has been shoved in my throat with force. That doesn't change that unsolicited bulk email is still spam. I'm not sure why you're having trouble understanding this.

Which part of the argument is silly? They provided you with information about your order. You explicitly gave your permission that they can provide you with information about your order. Try again.

WubTheCaptain

@Nomad said:
I don't see how this is considered as spam since they're important mails regarding your service.

Spam is any unsolicited bulk messaging (delivered electronically). See Spamhaus on understanding spam.1

Spam is an issue about consent, not content. Whether the Unsolicited Bulk Email ("UBE") message is an advert, a scam, porn, a begging letter or an offer of a free lunch, the content is irrelevant - if the message was sent unsolicited and in bulk then the message is spam.

Jonchun

@WubTheCaptain said:
Spam is any unsolicited bulk messaging

Keyword: unsolicited

YOU EXPLICITLY AGREED TO BE NOTIFIED ABOUT YOUR ORDER/PRODUCT.

rds100

@WubTheCaptain if you are really THAT unhappy about this email, then vote with your wallet, cancel your services and move on. But you won't do this because Prometeus is providing fantastic services and you know it.

WubTheCaptain

@Jonchun said:
YOU EXPLICITLY AGREED TO BE NOTIFIED ABOUT YOUR ORDER/PRODUCT.

Then the question becomes "can the service provider reliably prove that the client has given explicit permission for this specific purpose". Vagueness in terms can be fixed, and vagueness creates issues and conflicts between agreements. You also keep referring to Prometeus, which has next to nothing to do with the thread.

There's another popular provider on LEB which sent me a similar VENOM message, and mentions absolutely nothing in their TOS/privacy policy about sending notices/emails. With all due respect to them, I'll leave them unmentioned.

The goal of this thread is to prevent conflicts and reduce messaging abuse. It's not difficult to do and can satisfy everyone, also the ones who want to receive those notices and those who don't.

We're getting nowhere here. Please educate yourself.

EDIT: To clarify, explicit is not implied consent. I believe in case of Prometeus it's about implied consent, but we can disagree.

jcaleb

Maybe we should close this thread, unless you guys need more entertainment

joepie91

If you're going to nitpick on technical definitions, then perhaps you should actually read the CAN-SPAM Act that you're putting on a pedestal?

From the definitions:

The term “commercial electronic mail message” means any electronic mail message the primary purpose of which is the commercial advertisement or promotion of a commercial product or service (including content on an Internet website operated for a commercial purpose).

[...]

The inclusion of a reference to a commercial entity or a link to the website of a commercial entity in an electronic mail message does not, by itself, cause such message to be treated as a commercial electronic mail message for purposes of this chapter if the contents or circumstances of the message indicate a primary purpose other than commercial advertisement or promotion of a commercial product or service.

And a nice summary, courtesy of Wikipedia:

CAN-SPAM, a direct response of the growing number of complaints over spam e-mails,[6] defines a "commercial electronic mail message" as "any electronic mail message the primary purpose of which is the commercial advertisement or promotion of a commercial product or service (including content on an Internet website operated for a commercial purpose)." It exempts "transactional or relationship messages." The FTC issued final rules[7] (16 C.F.R. 316) clarifying the phrase "primary purpose" on December 16, 2004. Previous state laws had used bulk (a number threshold), content (commercial), or unsolicited to define spam.

Congress determined that the US government was showing an increased interest in the regulation of commercial electronic mail nationally, that those who send commercial e-mails should not mislead recipients over the source or content of them, and that all recipients of such emails have a right to decline them.[6] However, CAN-SPAM does not ban spam emailing outright, but imposes laws on using deceptive marketing methods through headings which are "materially false or misleading". In addition there are conditions which email marketers must meet in terms of their format, their content and labeling.[6] The 3 basic types of compliance defined in the CAN-SPAM Act, unsubscribe, content and sending behavior compliance, are as follows:

Now piss off and go troll somewhere else.

/thread

TinyTunnel_Tom

@joepie91 said:
If you're going to nitpick on technical definitions, then perhaps you should actually read the CAN-SPAM Act that you're putting on a pedestal?

From the definitions:

/thread

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaand that's a wrap

WubTheCaptain

@joepie91 said:
If you're going to nitpick on technical definitions, then perhaps you should actually read the CAN-SPAM Act that you're putting on a pedestal?

Did you read this at all?

In example, the CAN-SPAM Act of 2003 law's definition of spam in United States is very different than what most anti-spam organizations categorize as spam. Any unsolicited bulk email is spam, and the people who keep your email clean of spam are acting accordingly to that fact.

I'm using Spamhaus' definition, which is more clear. See the article on mainsleaze spam1 too.

joepie91

WubTheCaptain said: I'm using Spamhaus' definition, which is more clear. See the article on mainsleaze spam1 too.

Spamhaus is not in any position of authority to define what "spam" is. They are a private organization with private interests. You're just jumping between definitions depending on whichever one fits your bizarre narrative best.

What Spamhaus believes has exactly zero relevance here.

WubTheCaptain

@joepie91 said:
What Spamhaus believes has exactly zero relevance here.

Spam has no relevance in the world at all. Alright, understood.

EDIT: And with that I meant Spamhaus and other nonprofit organizations probably does more to fight against spam than CAN-SPAM ever does.

EDIT2: To solve your issue, let's use the word "unsolicited bulk emailing" now. Then OP would be more accurate if you so firmly believe to a different definition of spam.

Nekki

jcaleb said: Maybe we should close this thread, unless you guys need more entertainment

Do it!

Nomad

Why, it was a good morning drama. LET doesn't have much heat nowadays. We need stuff like this

jcaleb

Thread closed. @WubTheCaptain you may continue discussing this topic on the Cest Pit. But please don't open a new thread about this topic, otherwise we will consider it a spam.