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Comments
That's not completely true. They don't have your paypal access to make agreement on your behalf with paypal to send them every month money.
What cvps billing system did here was helping you to chose between recurring payment and one time payment. That's all. You personally authorized paypal to send payment every month to a certain address.
Once again: Paypal payment subscription is agreement between you and paypal not between you and host. It is your own responsibility. And you own fault if you don't cancel it. But this doesn't mean that they shouldn't be nice and refund you.
No, it doesn't relate. This was not my reason for leaving them.
I did and if I ignore all the times they just closed the ticket or wrote 'assigning to the billing team', this is what I got from Chris. He told me to cancel myself and open a paypal dispute to take care of this.
But paypal is not handling disputes for services. So there is no help to get there.
It's not a lot of money and I just wanted to hear if this was expected from a company like this and see other people opinions.
Once again: Please post a complete screenshot of your ticket history...
2 questions:
Why should they have?
Why should it not be your responsibility?
I don't think so. If a previous client sends a payment after their service has been cancelled/terminated, I always refund it, regardless of who is 'to blame' for the accidental recurrence.
Refusing to do that in order to save a few pennies on top of an extra month or two of negligible, unearned money from someone who was no longer using your service? How miserly does it get?
How many requests do you get for this per month out of interest?
Why shouldn't they? They chose to offer this payment method.
If they like you wrote earlier just gave me a notice about remembering to cancel this myself, then of course I would have done it. Because then I would be on the safe site.
I pay every 3 months and I cancelled their services in June just after a payment.
well said, the customer has already terminated its services what is the use for credits, just prolonged misery. It happens its an honnest mistake, just as hosts want customers to pay on time with subscriptions I feel its a two way street you've had ontime payment the customer absorbed the risk so just refund it.
I don't have very many clients so next to none. It was fresh in mind because it happened a couple days ago, though.
You chose to use this method of payment so why should they manage it for you when the agreement is between you and paypal?
I suppose it is a fine line, if they made some effort to remind you or preempt you at least then I suppose things may have been different.
I just checked CVPS terms and nothing even remotely similar is mentioned so if you are not used to this it is not unreasonable for you to assume that when you cancel with CVPS that also cancels the subscription.
I think your attitude towards this may change then if you were spending hours of your time and paying more significantly for other peoples mistakes every month.
We all realize that, but if you're not making enough money in this market to the point where you feel the need to compensate by arrogating money from people through their accidentally left on PayPal subscriptions...
I do spend hours of time at this, but I don't think a small accumulation of PayPal's refund fees = 'paying significantly' by any means... unless you're getting a substantial amount of cancellations where the PayPal subscriptions were accidentally left on? I would hope you aren't getting that many!
Also, somewhat insulting to flip the wording around and make it appear as if you were the one 'paying for mistakes' all the while getting that free subscription payment from them! Isn't it the previous clients who are paying for mistakes here?
Just wondering, where many negative feedbacks around LET/LEB, unsuspected folks keep sign up again and again, just magic..
I guess I am the only one here that does not feel it is OK to work for free and sweep up after people as a matter of course, my mistake, I will move on.
Really...... sigh.
Truth is: Intuitively when you cancel a service the Paypal subscription should be automatically canceled too. Imho only a moron would argue with that.
Would you say the same should would work in reverse?
Yes
It's true that certain mistakes are expensive.
Fair enough.
@soap I feel your pain. I have a server with them that went down a week ago and will not boot, reboot will not re install the whole interface is crap. Ticket opened still no luck with them. Nothing but issues in service and support for many months now.
I dont use their service for anything other then just testing the vps out. And so far they get worse and worse as time goes on. I'd love to be able to just kick them in the ass. The new owner is officially worse then the previous. Having had the server thru both owners.
Coming from a personal side, i simply think pp subscription is a financial scam so i cancel one every time i have to go through one like i do every year with nhl gamecenter live.
Coming from a business which does no pp subscriptions at all i do not get why would one (business) even deal with one (pp subscription). Its just more hassle dealing with future negativity from client. Clients forget about it. All of us forget. Its a nature of a human to forget. I personally recommend companies to stop facing clients with read ends and stop doing pp subscriptions.
Just my 1am, morning imho.
The only scam there is paying $100 to watch the Rangers get beaten by the Maple Leafs
It is a good feature, but at the same time some people abused this. I read one make-money-on-internet ebook which literally told you to enforce PayPal subscription for your service, so that when the time come to renew, your clients would pay for it anyway and some might not bother given the mere low dollar amount involved (cheap yearly service, but I don't remember what the ebook was about exactly).
@AnthonySmith I do not disagree with you, given the amount of notices and exceptions to polite clients. However I think it's beneficial and saves some headaches if you can prevent the issue from happening in the first place. Maybe a script to cancel PayPal subscription as soon as the client submit a cancellation request.
@KuJoe had such WHMCS add-on that worked fine when I tested it.Edit: Looks like @KuJoe had disagreement with the original script owner he forked it from. Not sure if he's still able to distribute his version.
@DalComp I'm not sure re: other billing software, but any host using the PayPal module in WHMCS can prevent it from happening in the first place.
The option is there. It's completely up to the provider.
I don't think that is in dispute, my perspective anyway is if the customer is given the choice and selects subscription they really should then manage that.
I don't think it's in dispute either, but @DalComp suggested 'prevent[ing] the issue from happening in the first place', so I was showing at least one preventative measure in widely used billing software.
That said, I give clients/customers the choice too, but I still would not use their ignorance re: PayPal subscriptions as an excuse to steal from them. You can spend all day justifying it to yourself, but in the end the result will be threads like this one about you. Is it worth the trade off?
It is an available option, yes. Though I think it's somewhat less productive as some clients do prefer subscription instead of going through their list of providers each month to make payment. It's a consideration really, depending on how many good clients using subscriptions vs bad ones with the disputes vs headaches involved, etc. Each business has their own numbers.
Real bad the above script is no longer available for free. It's still working well with the latest WHMCS.
If the amount is added as credit it's not really stealing a customers money. They still can use it for other services.
If they customer decides not to use the credit it is their choice.
Perhaps if you look at it like it's not a payment to a specific service, if you always treat it as adding credit to a provider to pay for any service offered by that provider it might get a better understanding.
@DalComp I will try to get a rewrite out soon. I wish I could release the working script but it's not worth the headache.
Also keep in mind that if you accept Paypal Subscriptions the WHMCS options "Require Shipping Address" and "Client Address Matching" are ignored for subscriptions. I highly recommend doing this so clients cannot bypass those checks (requires them to make a one-time payment for the first invoice, after that they can setup a subscription): http://forum.whmcs.com/showthread.php?89611-Quick-Mod-Disable-Paypal-Subscription-for-first-invoice