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By 'eck it's grim oop north.
Pretty much, unless you like fish in everything you eat then you will loose weight. Visitors stand out a mile unless you have a very full beard like all men and some women.
I went 2 years ago, it was an experience, but I won't be rushing back.
that's me out then.
I should fit right in then...
Talked to Linode support - they have no plans to charge VAT in the future.
Do anyone know what kind of position this puts their customers in? Will customers from the EU have issues dealing with companies that do not properly charge VAT or is this at the responsibility of the provider?
Still in the planning stages of opening up the business with my partner (taking it slow) and this new VAT rule is proving to be one of the biggest stumbling blocks. The initial plan to not register for VAT for the first couple of years has been thrown out the window unless HMRC backtrack any further. I can see it being an admin nightmare but if nothing changes by the time we open up then c'est la vie I guess.
anyone sent mass email regarding this already?
Surely though each EU country has its own threshold, if I remember correctly France’s threshold is 34,000Euro therefore you’re not required to charge VAT until you reach that amount. Meaning I would only have to start charging/paying VAT to France when I meet their threshold. Exactly how it is in the UK at the moment.
I don't know if I'm being stupid but surely the threshold would still count otherwise loads of business would lose out as customers may not want to pay the extra 21% leading to the business losing customers or having to lower their pricing to cover the losses of the customers, either way the business is losing out.
I thought the EU existed (partially) in order for businesses to be able to cross borders, not to motivate them not to. I must have been wrong in my assumptions, I guess. (shrugs)
Doing business in the EU is already a pain as it is and these rules are making it worse. One more vote for the United States of Europe!
The threshold doesn't apply for business from outside the state
Sounds like a great way to end up with huge fines and a VAT liability to me.
Honestly it is as clear as mud which is why everyone has a slightly different opinion, if Linode are a USA based business then frankly as usual they will probably get away with it for a while, if they are registered in the EU that would be an unfortunate way to deadpool when HMRC seizes all of their UK servers as assets to offset the VAT.
Linode are a big enough fish to fry, and fry they will, same with any non-eu company that has assets in the EU.
That'd be fine by me, actually. By the time they start frying these fish (and you're making me hungry now) they'll start realizing how insane these regulations are. I hope...
I feel like most of the statements about how EU will suddenly start going after non-EU companies who are not paying VAT when these regulations come into place (even though the regulations don't change the fact that those companies should charge VAT AFAIK) are coming from companies like Taxamo who provide VAT compliance solutions. In particular I've seen Taxamo people writing guest news/blog posts all over the place.
Linode does have London facility.
I don't doubt that non-EU companies already charging VAT will adjust to the new policies of course.
I think some non-EU based domain registrars were already charging EU VAT for several years, so yes, more and more non-EU companies will start doing it. At least those that are big enough to matter will do it.
They're not that insane. If you want to play in their market, you play by their rules. Death and taxes...
It makes more sense when dealing with shipped products. For online services, though, if every country in the world were to make their own tax policies and apply it to all companies selling to their residents, then each company would then need to deal with almost 200 unique tax policies. That is insane, no? That is why U.S. passed Internet Tax Freedom Act at some point, to prevent U.S. states from passing their own state Internet taxes (although I think that act expired or something).
OVH recently posted about it: https://www.ovh.co.uk/a1659.changes-to-VAT-on-digital-services-in-the-EU
Doesn't tell us much, but it basically shows that they're going to comply and charge different VAT rates.
As I've said before I think it's insane to make business out their jurisdiction pay VAT. I know, yada yada revenue from sales, government needs moneys, all that crap but really? Just increase another tax that is actually inside your country if you're so worried about revenue.
Here in Australia we pay tax for basically everything. When I go fill up with petrol I am paying a $0.38143/litre tax then an added GST at the register.
When I pay for a VPS and the business is Australian I pay GST.
When I pay my car rego I pay a motor tax of $155.00.
There are so may methods of gaining revenue from their citizens. Causing business outside their zone to spend more money on accounting makes it almost not worth having them as customers.
EDIT: Sorry, got a bit sidetracked and just went on a rant. You see my point though.
Romanians pay more. Besides VAT, I mean, there are a lot of other taxes on fuel.
Do Usa recognise that European law? Have they signed any treaty? Or any other non Euro country?
They do if they do business in the EU, in much the same way as I would not sell beer to under 21's in the USA just because the legal limit is 18 in the UK.
FML! I cannot believe this!
@perennate, yeah, it certainly doesn't make things easier and tangible goods may make it more palatable.
What I'd expect the E.U. to do in the medium term is look to (or ask to) harmonise VAT across its member states, I believe part of the inspiration of this law was that certain E.U. countries were getting a larger than 'normal' take of VAT receipts because of their lower rate (like Luxembourg). The U.K's "Google tax" was in response to this kind of accounting/playing the market.
Yeah, this whole issue appeared because of that, EU cannot force member states to set a certain VAT level, so they create this monster regulation.
Apart from that, there is this wishful thinking that americans and chinese will collect their taxes somehow...
The whole mess would end if the EU decides that the so called e-services would be taxed with 0% VAT in the whole EU. And it would make the most sense. After all it is not crossing any borders (or at least customs), so why tax it?
VAT is not related to customs, it is a consumption tax, unless you are a company reselling or using for production, in which case it is a resource, it will be taxed by the consumption tax.
I think better would be to make it 20% all over for electronic goods and then the incentive to register in places with lower VAT will disappear. Much easier than this, but, hey, why simple when complicated is possible?
@Maounique that would work too, but then what to do with non-EU companies selling services in EU to EU customers?
It is certainly not made easier by various rates instead of a unified one, don't you think?
They did not collect until now, will not start next month.
DigitalOcean has also confirmed they have no intention of charging VAT in the coming year.