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I'm not dictating anything... i'm giving advice because I want new providers to stay a float and succeed so that the end users(myself included) have more options.
ugh thought you were someone else, but seeing as you think i'm "trolling" why then do you want my advice? You also don't qualify as a new provider, since you been "doing this since 1995".
Yea, that's the last time I use superShitent RAM.
Francisco
I don't offer attitude, I offer a rock solid service. But why the attack to my question? I was not attacking you, I was asking what gave you the right to make the suggestion. What are you bringing to the table to justify your feeling?
Before the K.C. datacenters, I would had argued against renting servers. After the K.C. datacenters, there's no way on earth I'd buy another server. Then again, it's pretty easy for me to say when I'm only a couple of hours away from them.
I know you offer a rock solid service, I misread your name, and seeing as how I listed your company and have personally recommend it to others what I said a moment ago isn't accurate, so my apologies.
I justify my position based off the fact new players in this space typically don't know exactly what they're getting into (which is what everyone probably experiences when they enter into something new), and the upfront costs can be higher than initially thought with everything in general much less in addition to buying ones hardware outright. Either way they're going to be in the red when they launch because they have no sales...so instead of dumping thousands in building a server in hopes you'll get enough sales to pay for it over time, it's better to rent (to put you far less in the hole) then see how well your launch goes and then go from there. I have no problem with a seasoned provider owning their hardware , this threads directed at new providers, because i'm tired off them deadpooling one after another.
Which means "I get deals so good that it isn't worth it to rent" right? Just making sure, it's a little confusing :P
Fran
I thought it was pretty clear @subigo only leases gear now.
Fair enough good sir!
Fran
Pretty much. If you get to know them, you can rent good servers (Xeon 5420, i7's, etc with 8GB+ RAM) for less than you can colo a server elsewhere. I'm talking under $70 a month.
Bitchin'
Good work!
That sounds like a lot of win
I agree there can be advantages of leasing/renting (aka dedicated servers) however, as far as the keeping your business alive part I dont see the relevance. If you own all of your hardware and have no debt it would seem pretty easy for your business not to die, as long as you can keep the servers full. Which in the low end vps market I have not really seen that to be an issue. We own all of our hardware, and for now plan to keep it that way. Although AGAIN, I DO see the potential benefits of leasing / renting in order to grow faster... We just choose to grow steadily and own everything instead.
Now this has moved from houses back to servers I'm back in
@taipres
There is one flaw - I know you have posted before that you wouldn't buy from a provider that rents servers. Many other people feel the same way. They want the level of insurance that owning hardware provides.
How would you feel if @Cheif posted someone that rented servers from burstnet, heztner, or OVH? I'm guessing the community would be ALL over that posting about 'WTF'
If anyone feels like hunting that comment down, it'd be the perfect capper for this thread XD
I don't believe i've ever said I wouldn't buy plans from someone who rents servers, in fact I feel indifferent about it TBH, as long as it's not oversold.
To be honest just about every provider I listed on my site that had a presence in Germany used heztners, granted i'd imagine most were colo, but wouldn't suprised if many rented. Maybe i'm misunderstanding what you're saying?
Renting and leasing is too expensive.
New providers who colocate have a better chance of succeeding ... mainly because they have better funding.
For example most datacenters require 1 year contract for colocation.
Uhm, Honestly UK would not be a viable option without Colocation for us.
It costs $96 (Roughly £61) Per server for Single 1U colocation thats with IPs Included.
I don't count the hardware as a cost, I build up a budget and then buy hardware when I have a big enough amount, It pays off eventually and I have a rough price of what it costs per node deployment.
I find it easier and I maintain spares at the DC and at my House. :-)
I don't think I could again run hosting services (shared hosting first and vps now) with rented servers, and to be honest I do this business because I've full control even of the dc and upstream (I'm the cto there) .
The only rented servers I have are with hetzner for backups and external monitoring, i used to have 4-5 servers there (are 3 now).
Rented servers are the only way for a startup to initially grow the business without much capital and give them the flexibility to drive month to month adjusting plans. But in the medim long term you have to own your gears and get out of them every cent they can make
You will feel the satisfaction of knowing that some service are running on servers that paid themself the year before and are now cash cow
IMO, be it leasing or owning, a business needs a business plan.
I do agree they need to have a business plan.
@Chris is right and is exactly why we shifted from leased to owned equipment in about 6 months after our inception (much to his disagreement). To this day, I think he agrees with me that going to owned hardware has been the best decision for the company and has done wonders for our company and for our users.
And on that note, I have to finish building our new nodes to ship in the morning.
I don't like the idea of putting my business in the hands of somebody else which is why I use to avoid renting at all costs. We've been discussing the prospect of renting servers for non-VPS usage though. I also feel clients trust us more because we manage our own infrastructure even if it's not the best hardware in the world.
It's also much cheaper to colocate than rent these days.
They didn't live in them in any of the shows I saw.
I'm sure a negligible amount did live in them, but most people wouldn't want to move around every couple months/whatever.
And buy vs rent STILL doesn't apply.
He's "giving advice" so that he can have more links on Lowendtalk pointing to his copy site.
If you do buy outright though you are locked into using that server for a long period where when you rent your equipment, you can chop and change in shorter periods of time, keeping more up to date with the latest equipment.
Not really, The node is usually paid off 4/5 Months after.
Maybe. If you rent from the datacenter, you will overpay, and can never run a LEB business with semi-current hardware, but you can swap it out quickly.
If you lease from Dell/HP, you will pay closer to retail, have current hardware, and be stuck with it for 3 years, so you may as well buy it to begin with.