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Happening Now: My SAD EXPERIENCE with CloudCone!!!!!!!
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Happening Now: My SAD EXPERIENCE with CloudCone!!!!!!!

icaseicase Member
edited July 2024 in General

These past two days have been incredibly stressful and anxiety-inducing for me. It all started when I received a renewal notice for my VPS from CloudCone. Excitedly, I logged onto their website, chose to add funds, and proceeded to recharge via PayPal to pay the bill for my VPS. I've been using this VPS for exactly two years now. It was strongly recommended to me by a good colleague from my company. Although I knew that cheap prices might come with risks, I felt reassured by their website design and the backend management logic, so I entrusted my most important personal services to it, and it has been running stably for two years. During this period, the colleague who recommended the VPS lost his job and switched industries to start his own business, becoming very busy. However, since he also ran his own home service on CloudCone, he handed over his account for me to manage. Our relationship has always been good, and I would conveniently pay his VPS bill along with mine every year, as the cost of CloudCone is only about the price of a fast food meal for a friend. But this became the beginning of today's trouble.

For years, I have paid for my VPS bill and helped him pay his without any issues. But just yesterday, after successfully adding funds, my CloudCone account was immediately locked for review. When I opened a ticket to inquire with customer service, they transferred my ticket to the abuse group and informed me that their TOS does not allow one person to have more than one account. This caught me off guard, as I hadn't carefully read their TOS. I sent several messages explaining my situation, stating that I had no intention or action of registering more than one personal account, and that I was managing my former colleague’s account, including specific details and email addresses involved. Then began the long wait for their response.

During this time, I feared that I might never get my account back. So, I opened a new ticket requesting a refund of the funds added and quickly contacted my friend, who was on a business trip abroad, to discuss how to migrate and back up his service. I was extremely anxious, as many of my important personal services and things entrusted to me by others might be affected.

A few hours later, finally, a level 1 support staff member responded to both of my tickets. In the ticket regarding the account issue, he asked me to patiently wait for their review team’s response but did not address my request for a refund of the add funds. Two hours later, they closed the refund request ticket.

I asked if they could refund my money first because, with no answer to the account issue, I wasn’t sure if I could continue using my services normally. After all, my account was locked after I added funds. If I had known about this in advance, I could have accepted them closing or handling my account differently, as it would determine whether I needed to renew. But instead, they took my money and then locked my account for review. It feels like a shopkeeper taking money out of my pocket and then telling me they won’t sell me anything. However, the support person still asked me to wait patiently, perfectly avoiding answering my refund request.

Another 24 hours passed, and a few hours ago, I sent another message, but no one responded. I thought about disputing via PayPal, but when I carefully read their TOS, I found a clause:

“15. Disputes/Chargebacks
By threatening to and/or opening a dispute for payments made to CloudCone, all communication from CloudCone will cease, and active services will be permanently suspended. Once a dispute is threatened or opened, CloudCone will only communicate with the customer via options provided by the payment provider or by certified postal mail. All services and payments will be forfeited regardless of the outcome of the dispute. All chargebacks will have a minimum administrative fee of $75 added to the account with a maximum amount not to exceed $250.”

I read it several times but didn’t fully understand what it meant. Nevertheless, this clause intimidated me, making me too afraid to dispute via PayPal because I didn’t know what would happen, and I didn’t want to make my mood worse. I am already very upset.

But all of this happened just like that. I can say that I used to be a loyal customer of CloudCone, always recommending them whenever someone asked which VPS to buy. From today, I can no longer say that.

I am currently backing up my services on my VPS. Migrating is really a troublesome task!

This is a lesson for me: always read the TOS (although I personally believe I didn't violate their TOS)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanked by 1default
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Comments

  • They may have sour experiences with abusers who opened multiple accounts to abuse. Thus, they only allow single accounts. I have a company (not hosting) where I follow this method. Because after banning a person for abusive usage, that person creates another account to continue abuse, and usually these types of things require a lot of time to review and take decisions, especially when you violate a TOS, which has caused them trouble in the past. Another thing is that these types of issues are usually reviewed by the senior person, and they take decisions. Most companies provide a faster response when your ticket can be solved by a junior support person. But when it comes to the seniors, it takes a longer time as they are not always free. Most companies hire lots of juniors to provide support, as 90% of problems can be solved by them, and they hire or promote a smaller number of senior support personnel. Thus, there's always a lack of senior support agents, which also increases the ticket response time. just be patient, they will eventually help you. you can request them not to suspend your server untill the issue resolved.

  • plumbergplumberg Veteran, Megathread Squad

    I hadn't carefully read their TOS.

    This is the problem.

    BUT

    I don't know if there were any threats posted / language and cultural barriers, usually a calm and peaceful approach would help in a resolution favoring both parties.

    Threats about chargebacks are never entertained lightly.

    I hope it's a good lesson learned @icase

    Thanked by 1Cloudcone
  • xvpsxvps Member

    More than 1 account + asking for a refund when caught. :D

    Let me guess, one of the accounts is an affiliate and has earned money from the other account's purchases.

    Thanked by 2sasslik commercial
  • icaseicase Member

    Yes, I certainly hope for a good outcome. I have always taken my personal services seriously, and I have also treated my account with their company with care. I have never provided any publicly accessible services on the server, including sending spam, storing, or publishing inappropriate copyrighted content, etc. The headache is the confusion regarding the usage environment of my account and my friend's account, including our shared IP when we worked together, and sometimes I helped him pay bills (in exchange for a meal, haha), maintenance services, etc. From the perspective of machine logs, it’s hard to distinguish. However, I have tried to provide honest responses. Some things are like a startled bird; it’s the same for both a company and an individual. I also feel that I have let my friend down by not taking care of his matters. We are very close, from colleagues to good friends. He has taught me a lot, including the fact that he helped me register my account on this forum back then. Yesterday made him very anxious as well. The rest is just a feeling of melancholy… sigh…

    @jobayer said:
    They may have sour experiences with abusers who opened multiple accounts to abuse. Thus, they only allow single accounts. I have a company (not hosting) where I follow this method. Because after banning a person for abusive usage, that person creates another account to continue abuse, and usually these types of things require a lot of time to review and take decisions, especially when you violate a TOS, which has caused them trouble in the past. Another thing is that these types of issues are usually reviewed by the senior person, and they take decisions. Most companies provide a faster response when your ticket can be solved by a junior support person. But when it comes to the seniors, it takes a longer time as they are not always free. Most companies hire lots of juniors to provide support, as 90% of problems can be solved by them, and they hire or promote a smaller number of senior support personnel. Thus, there's always a lack of senior support agents, which also increases the ticket response time. just be patient, they will eventually help you. you can request them not to suspend your server untill the issue resolved.

  • TLDR

    • You've been using a CloudCone VPS for 2 years, also managing a friend's account.
    • After adding funds to renew, your account was locked for review due to their TOS prohibiting multiple accounts per person.
    • You explained the situation to customer support but received no clear response.
    • You requested a refund but were told to wait, with no definitive answer.
    • Their TOS has a concerning clause about disputes/chargebacks, making you hesitant to dispute via PayPal.
    • This experience has left you stressed, anxious, and disappointed with CloudCone's handling of the situation.
    • You're now backing up your services and facing the troublesome task of migrating.
    • The main lesson learned is to always thoroughly read the TOS.
    Thanked by 2BlaZe Cloudcone
  • icaseicase Member

    I'm not a native English speaker, so I interpret this description very literally. Of course, I have been communicating calmly with the customer service staff. Additionally, not reading the TOS is indeed a lesson learned. However, the other issue is that even if I had read their TOS back then, it might not have raised my awareness, because I don't actually 'own' two accounts.

    @plumberg said:

    I hadn't carefully read their TOS.

    This is the problem.

    BUT

    I don't know if there were any threats posted / language and cultural barriers, usually a calm and peaceful approach would help in a resolution favoring both parties.

    Threats about chargebacks are never entertained lightly.

    I hope it's a good lesson learned @icase

  • icaseicase Member

    You are viewing everyone as if they are all demons!!!

    @xvps said:
    More than 1 account + asking for a refund when caught. :D

    Let me guess, one of the accounts is an affiliate and has earned money from the other account's purchases.

  • icaseicase Member

    The final point is not entirely correct. First, I didn't read the TOS and encountered a lesson, but this lesson is in quotes. Because this so-called "lesson" is a lesson where you have to prove your innocence, as the TOS is black and white, while real life is not. So, it's the fear of "where exactly is the bomb."

    @adilolv said:
    TLDR

    • You've been using a CloudCone VPS for 2 years, also managing a friend's account.
    • After adding funds to renew, your account was locked for review due to their TOS prohibiting multiple accounts per person.
    • You explained the situation to customer support but received no clear response.
    • You requested a refund but were told to wait, with no definitive answer.
    • Their TOS has a concerning clause about disputes/chargebacks, making you hesitant to dispute via PayPal.
    • This experience has left you stressed, anxious, and disappointed with CloudCone's handling of the situation.
    • You're now backing up your services and facing the troublesome task of migrating.
    • The main lesson learned is to always thoroughly read the TOS.
  • xvpsxvps Member

    @icase said:
    You are viewing everyone as if they are all demons!!!

    @xvps said:
    More than 1 account + asking for a refund when caught. :D

    Let me guess, one of the accounts is an affiliate and has earned money from the other account's purchases.

    No, but this is a common reason for multiple accounts.

    ... because I don't actually 'own' two accounts.

    Their terms:

    Customer cannot maintain more than one (1) account at app.cloudcone.com

    It's funny that you can't see that you have broken the terms by maintaining multiple accounts.

    And the fact that you wanted to charge back before the abuse team responded pretty much makes you a "demon".

    I can't see that @Cloudcone has done anything wrong.

  • icaseicase Member

    I don’t want to start an argument. If you could show some empathy or had carefully read my post, you wouldn’t think I’m plotting anything; I’m just stating the facts and expressing my feelings. What you refer to as

    @xvps said: And the fact that you wanted to charge back before the abuse team responded pretty much makes you a "demon".

    is just your own speculation. I have already prepared for the worst. I can accept any outcome, but you are trying to force me to swallow your dirty water. I don’t understand what mindset leads you to assume that others are filled with “malice.”

    @xvps said:

    @icase said:
    You are viewing everyone as if they are all demons!!!

    @xvps said:
    More than 1 account + asking for a refund when caught. :D

    Let me guess, one of the accounts is an affiliate and has earned money from the other account's purchases.

    No, but this is a common reason for multiple accounts.

    ... because I don't actually 'own' two accounts.

    Their terms:

    Customer cannot maintain more than one (1) account at app.cloudcone.com

    It's funny that you can't see that you have broken the terms by maintaining multiple accounts.

    And the fact that you wanted to charge back before the abuse team responded pretty much makes you a "demon".

    I can't see that @Cloudcone has done anything wrong.

  • lirrrlirrr Member

    U use their services for 2 years and don’t read the tos? :D

  • defaultdefault Veteran
    edited July 2024

    I believe not allowing multiple accounts is "sad", as the title suggests. If a customer wants to have multiple services structured with separation in different accounts, that is their choice and their load to manage.

    As an example: a customer might be a designer, creating websites for customers A, B, C, and so on. Then when design job is done, the designer can simply sell the work, with account included, all configured for production and backups, making it an easy responsibility of their client to pay and maintain the account further. In such scenario @Cloudcone gains more customers simply by allowing multiple accounts, without any load on support in pushing services from one account to another.

    Yes, there many some abusers and bad apples out there, but there are also a lot of good apples. Some providers with their tight terms tend to lose the plot with regards to options for their clients in buying.

    Anyway, Cloudcone made their choice and so be it. I should not be a person to tell anyone how to run their business; so with respect, this is just an opinion.

    Thanked by 2icase Cloudcone
  • edited July 2024

    Those dispute provisions are pretty low in my opinion. Sure, i understand that providers have to deal with malicious chargebacks a lot and they want to protect themselves but trying to nullify these protection mechanisms in case of valid grievances (it doesn't look like any service will be rendered and as long as the second account was in a different name i wouldn't be so fast concerning a TOS violation) still doesn't sit well with me.

    @icase maybe you could have a short and friendly chat with Paypal's support regarding those clauses. It's not like i'd know about any Paypal terms those would go against but i could still see Paypal not being overly impressed with the service trying to basically opt out of there dispute resolution system.

    There's also the question of how enforceable those terms are but then i'm not a lawyer (especially not without knowing your location).

    Thanked by 1Frameworks
  • well, you fucked up first even though by accident.

    then, they aren't the best at investigation.

    if your services are still available, backup now.

    then, depending on their reply, file a chargeback. you have nothing more to lose on them anyway.

  • zhuyezhuye Member

    CloudCone service has been terrible this year and internet speeds have gotten worse, PASS it when choosing a VPS!

  • DazzleDazzle Member

    You said that paying the bills is just like buying fast food, which is cheap, so this shouldn't be your main concern.

    In my opinion, you should proceed to get your account reinstated first instead of asking for a refund.

    If you ask for a refund first, you might be an abuser and trying to avoid any loss. This is a red flag.

    Thanked by 2tentor Cloudcone
  • LeviLevi Member

    Chinese devil tries to scam punjabi provider :D

    Thanked by 1Frameworks
  • icaseicase Member
    edited July 2024

    Thanks @default @totally_not_banned @cybertech @Dazzle

    Actually, what impacted me the most in this matter is not the money, but the time and effort costs related to “service interruption or migration,” and the way they handled this money.

    Mentioning their dispute terms and my reaction to their handling of the situation mainly comes from my failure to carefully read or "deeply interpret" their Terms of Service (TOS), which led to my negative emotions (frustration and disappointment) (as mocked by someone above).

    Some speculate that I am a speculator who deliberately registers multiple accounts to pose as a victim. Let them think what they want. I have no obligation to prove my innocence. But from another perspective, if I really were a "speculator," my feelings and questions are as follows:

    1. If their system identifies multiple account holders through payment methods (e.g., PayPal accounts), why don't they refuse the transaction at the payment stage, instead of transferring the money and then immediately blocking the account (or putting it under review)? Is this a punishment or a fine? If an existing account holder triggers risk control when registering a new account, that would make sense, but is it appropriate to treat old users this way?

    2. Although I received a renewal bill, I only used the add funds feature to recharge my account balance. This balance has not yet been used to pay for service bills. Will this money be directly confiscated? I read their TOS and found that they only have refund restrictions or "punishments" for already paid services (note, not account balances).

    3. My immediate feeling was (not representing reality, and with no offense to CloudCone company): a shop owner knows you are a scammer, smiles and takes your money, then turns around and says, “Sorry, you can’t buy my stuff anymore, but the money you just gave me is mine because you might be a scammer.”

    All my feelings about refunds, money, and dispute terms are based on the above inner experiences. But what truly bothers me is not the potential loss of a few dozen dollars (this won't make me a homeless person, LOL), but the fear of the "unknown verdict" during the account review process, and the frustration of backing up data and migrating services.

    If I were a speculator, I might not care about the data on the server and wouldn't be concerned with these issues because, as a speculator, I would be prepared to take these risks and wouldn't place my important services on their servers. So, I don’t understand those who mock me.

    Thanked by 1default
  • defaultdefault Veteran

    Now I am more curious why @Cloudcone did answer so far. They must have got the email message notifications from tagging.

    Thanked by 1totally_not_banned
  • @icase it's probably to late by now but if i were you i'd look into cloning disks over ssh (piping dd out from reading the original disk into ssh which executes another dd instance running on a rescue/life system on the target VM writing the data read back to the new disk). It should seriously speed up your migration process compared to setting up everything again as all left to do once the disk is copied is adjusting network settings (if both providers use DHCP you might not even need that and it might just work out of the box).

  • defaultdefault Veteran

    @totally_not_banned said:
    @icase it's probably to late by now but if i were you i'd look into cloning disks over ssh (piping dd out from reading the original disk into ssh which executes another dd instance running on a rescue/life system on the target VM writing the data read back to the new disk). It should seriously speed up your migration process compared to setting up everything again as all left to do once the disk is copied is adjusting network settings (if both providers use DHCP you might not even need that and it might just work out of the box).

    Are there automated solutions on Github for cloning a system like that?

  • VoidVoid Member

    Cloud gone

  • edited July 2024

    @default said:

    @totally_not_banned said:
    @icase it's probably to late by now but if i were you i'd look into cloning disks over ssh (piping dd out from reading the original disk into ssh which executes another dd instance running on a rescue/life system on the target VM writing the data read back to the new disk). It should seriously speed up your migration process compared to setting up everything again as all left to do once the disk is copied is adjusting network settings (if both providers use DHCP you might not even need that and it might just work out of the box).

    Are there automated solutions on Github for cloning a system like that?

    There's definitely some snippets of the commands (it's basically a one liner - dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/stdout bs=1M | gzip -9 | ssh [email protected] 'gunzip | dd if=/dev/stdin of=/dev/sda bs=1M' executed on the original VM with the gzip parts being optional to save traffic) floating around. The only manual part would be adjusting the network (if actually needed).

    I guess that could also be scripted (get settings from rescue/live system, mount the cloned disk, figure out which type of OS is on there and how it manages its network configuration, adjust the config to the settings used on the live/rescue system, done) but i've never seen such a thing yet. I figure the part where the script needs to figure out/know about the cloned OS is probably what deters people from automating that too.

    Thanked by 1default
  • xvpsxvps Member

    @default said:
    Now I am more curious why @Cloudcone did answer so far. They must have got the email message notifications from tagging.

    It's Saturday, not Monday™.

    Thanked by 1default
  • hope they resolve this and not become cloudcon

  • icaseicase Member

    Awesome, learned new knowledge. a big thank you!

    @totally_not_banned said:

    @default said:

    @totally_not_banned said:
    @icase it's probably to late by now but if i were you i'd look into cloning disks over ssh (piping dd out from reading the original disk into ssh which executes another dd instance running on a rescue/life system on the target VM writing the data read back to the new disk). It should seriously speed up your migration process compared to setting up everything again as all left to do once the disk is copied is adjusting network settings (if both providers use DHCP you might not even need that and it might just work out of the box).

    Are there automated solutions on Github for cloning a system like that?

    There's definitely some snippets of the commands (it's basically a one liner - dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/stdout bs=1M | gzip -9 | ssh [email protected] 'gunzip | dd if=/dev/stdin of=/dev/sda bs=1M' executed on the original VM with the gzip parts being optional to save traffic) floating around. The only manual part would be adjusting the network (if actually needed).

    I guess that could also be scripted (get settings from rescue/live system, mount the cloned disk, figure out which type of OS is on there and how it manages its network configuration, adjust the config to the settings used on the live/rescue system, done) but i've never seen such a thing yet. I figure the part where the script needs to figure out/know about the cloned OS is probably what deters people from automating that too.

    1. Keep daily backups
    2. Figure out how to do desaster recovery (in advance)
    3. Have the whole procedure copy & paste ready
    4. If a provider „dies“, reason doesn’t matter, move to a new one

    Same with any cloud service. They can restrict your access/cancel your service/delete all your stuff at any time (intentionally or unintentionally doesn’t matter).

    After everything is gone, it’s too late to think about recovery. Think of a North Korean nuke landing on your data center or simply a random hacker hijacking the whole datacenter. Or an intern wiped your server by accident lol.

    Thanked by 1icase
  • icaseicase Member

    :D

    @lowendtalkxdax said: Or an intern wiped your server by accident lol.

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