Vultr is now claiming full perpetual commercial rights over all hosted content

Baris

I checked the Vultr TOS, it is real.

Source:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39836495

and

https://www.reddit.com/r/selfhosted/comments/1bouuv7/warning_vultr_a_major_cloud_provider_is_now/

FatGrizzly

archive: https://archive.ph/r4O4o

just in case.

matey0

That's crazy. I don't know how that would hold up in court but if they really intend to use customer data for AI training like many are speculating then most customers wouldn't even be able to bring it to court since it's not easy to prove.

IMO this should be a pinned warning, can't recommend Vultr to anyone under these conditions.

MannDude

Fuck that.

Lets pray this backfires horrendously for them and other big-tech doesn't try to pull the same stunt. People shouldn't accept or allow this to become the norm.

DP

dev_vps

@Baris said:
I checked the Vultr TOS, it is real.

Source:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39836495

and

https://www.reddit.com/r/selfhosted/comments/1bouuv7/warning_vultr_a_major_cloud_provider_is_now/

As a service provider and they are getting $$$ for hosting services, it is likely to be challenged in court.

This is similar to camera rental place claiming rights overs all the pictures shot and saved on its internal storage with the camera.

This will be a good conversation topic on the dinner table this evening.

xvps

I'm not a fan, but the sentence ends with: for purposes of providing the Services to you.

Doesn't that limit the consent so they only can use it for my services?

You hereby grant to Vultr a non-exclusive, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, fully paid-up, worldwide license (including the right to sublicense through multiple tiers) to use, reproduce, process, adapt, publicly perform, publicly display, modify, prepare derivative works, publish, transmit and distribute each of your User Content, or any portion thereof, in any form, medium or distribution method now known or hereafter existing, known or developed, and otherwise use and commercialize the User Content in any way that Vultr deems appropriate, without any further consent, notice and/or compensation to you or to any third parties, for purposes of providing the Services to you.

dev_vps

@xvps said:
I'm not a fan, but the sentence ends with: for purposes of providing the Services to you.

Doesn't that limit the consent so they only can use it for my services?

You hereby grant to Vultr a non-exclusive, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, fully paid-up, worldwide license (including the right to sublicense through multiple tiers) to use, reproduce, process, adapt, publicly perform, publicly display, modify, prepare derivative works, publish, transmit and distribute each of your User Content, or any portion thereof, in any form, medium or distribution method now known or hereafter existing, known or developed, and otherwise use and commercialize the User Content in any way that Vultr deems appropriate, without any further consent, notice and/or compensation to you or to any third parties, for purposes of providing the Services to you.

keywords --
perpetual, irrevocable
without any further consent, notice and/or compensation

matey0

@xvps said: Doesn't that limit the consent so they only can use it for my services?

Given how they take out the right to do basically whatever the fuck they want with your data I wouldn't bet on it. Maybe they'd be able legal-weasel their way into saying, for example, that their AI model is a service they're providing "to you".

Crab

Are you saying that I shouldn't deploy my billion dollar plan to my free tier Vultr instance I just got today?

ScreenReader

lol got to love their free tier program. you're the product.

lirrr

Please don't steal my trillion dollars code.

lowenduser1

@xvps said:
I'm not a fan, but the sentence ends with: for purposes of providing the Services to you.

Doesn't that limit the consent so they only can use it for my services?

You hereby grant to Vultr a non-exclusive, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, fully paid-up, worldwide license (including the right to sublicense through multiple tiers) to use, reproduce, process, adapt, publicly perform, publicly display, modify, prepare derivative works, publish, transmit and distribute each of your User Content, or any portion thereof, in any form, medium or distribution method now known or hereafter existing, known or developed, and otherwise use and commercialize the User Content in any way that Vultr deems appropriate, without any further consent, notice and/or compensation to you or to any third parties, for purposes of providing the Services to you.

No.

We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Resistance is futile.

neverain

does this mean, theyll be liable for the content hosted there?

xvps

@neverain said:
does this mean, theyll be liable for the content hosted there?

No, the terms:

You are responsible for the information, text, opinions, messages, comments, audio visual works, motion pictures, photographs, animation, videos, graphics, sounds, music, software, Apps, and any other content or material that You or your end users submit, upload, post, host, store, or otherwise make available (“Make Available”) on or through the Services (collectively, “Your Content,” “Content” or “User Content”).

xvps

Also in their terms:

We respect the intellectual property rights of all parties ...

Yeah, right.

Levi

Wondering why they included this into the tos. Is it possible to prove that hosting provider use your data in AI training? Afaik it is not possible and there is no precedent in law for such case yet.

_MS_

dev_vps

Host some data elements on another provider(s) and keep some data parts encrypted. They can NOT claim any rights over parts hosted on other providers.

That will be an interesting approach

matey0

@Levi said:
Wondering why they included this into the tos. Is it possible to prove that hosting provider use your data in AI training? Afaik it is not possible and there is no precedent in law for such case yet.

I've tangentially heard of a bunch of cases but haven't looked into them. Mainly with AIs using copyrighted paintings and literature.
Afaik some big AI company even admitted they trained on a big pirated book dataset.

Edward_S

Bye bye then

cochon

A bit all encompassing. What happens of some of your 'user content' is copyright to someone else who's granted you, and only you, a limited use license? An absolute minefield.

xvps

katapult.io has similar terms.

The Customer hereby grants Katapult a non-exclusive, sub-licensable (including by multi-tier), worldwide, royalty-free licence to use, transmit, copy, install and otherwise utilise:
the Customer Data; and
any software, materials and data made available to Katapult (or those acting on its behalf) by or on behalf of the Customer or any Authorised User, to the extent necessary to enable Katapult to provide the Services and exercise its rights and perform its obligations under this Agreement.

mikewazar

this is actually insane wtaf

stxsh

I feel silly for recommending them to folks who were asking about DO. What a let down.

emgh

@DaveA

Levi

@stxsh said:
I feel silly for recommending them to folks who were asking about DO. What a let down.

You done good. Vultr has decent performance and stellar uptime. Your folks does not host anything remotely useful for vultr AI.

MannDude

@emgh said:
@DaveA

Last active: 2:22PM (EST)

david

@xvps said: I'm not a fan, but the sentence ends with: for purposes of providing the Services to you.

Doesn't that limit the consent so they only can use it for my services?

Since all that unlimited perpetual stuff is for the purposes of providing the Services to you, doesn't it follow that those Services are also now perpetual? Free service for infinity.

BruhGamer12

Wow I know some people who use Vultr for commercial purposes and they will def be taking down their services from Vultr and transferring to someone else. This new TOS makes it illegal for healthcare companies to use Vultr or any company hosted on Vultr. If you guys find any healthcare, legal company, etc that uses Vultr complain to their legal department about HIPPA and law privacy ethic violations by using Vultr or an upstream provider that relies on Vultr. I do not want Vultr owning my private healthcare and legal documents so they can use it for whatever BS.

techdragon

Sounds like a university.