Colocate mini pc in Europe

guruwormhole11

Hello does anyone colocate mini PC's in Europe? Similar form factor Intel nuc?
I'm looking to colocate 2 separate mini PC's to host in two different countries. Specific country isn't too important but would prefer CH or nordic country.

Looking for at least 5tb a month and one IPV4 address.

I do see @SGraf offers this, but are all out of stock.

Thanks

Jasonhyperhost

@guruwormhole11 said:
Hello does anyone colocate mini PC's in Europe? Similar form factor Intel nuc?
I'm looking to colocate 2 separate mini PC's to host in two different countries. Specific country isn't too important but would prefer CH or nordic country.

Looking for at least 5tb a month and one IPV4 address.

I do see @SGraf offers this, but are all out of stock.

Thanks

@guruwormhole11 ,we are able to host for you in the UK if that's suitable for you?

please message to discuss as NUC is not a normal device for a rack need to discuss

guruwormhole11

@Jasonhyperhost said:
@guruwormhole11 ,we are able to host for you in the UK if that's suitable for you?

please message to discuss as NUC is not a normal device for a rack need to discuss

Thank you. PMed

Jasonhyperhost

@guruwormhole11 said:

@Jasonhyperhost said:
@guruwormhole11 ,we are able to host for you in the UK if that's suitable for you?

please message to discuss as NUC is not a normal device for a rack need to discuss

Thank you. PMed

Thanks @guruwormhole11

concept

Maybe @PulsedMedia can help you with this.

SGraf

@guruwormhole11 said:
Hello does anyone colocate mini PC's in Europe? Similar form factor Intel nuc?
I'm looking to colocate 2 separate mini PC's to host in two different countries. Specific country isn't too important but would prefer CH or nordic country.

Looking for at least 5tb a month and one IPV4 address.

I do see @SGraf offers this, but are all out of stock.

Thanks

Happy to help. Send me a dm so we can discuss this and i'll likely be able to make some room for you.

PulsedMedia

@concept said:
Maybe @PulsedMedia can help you with this.

Certainly, that'd be 500€ a month!
Joking aside, there's no profit for us in that, way too much hassle to colocate someone's minipc without automation.
We'd provide a shitty experience for a lot of money (relatively) because no one in our staff could care less for 10€ a month colocation, more hassle than it's worth. We are much more likely to put it into ewaste bin than actually even bother rebooting it. Even at 100€ a month.

We might consider renting full racks and with remote hands set at 80-120€ per hour again in future, but right now not doable.

For full rack colo you can ask HelsinkiDC.com

In other words; We can offer you the full dedi for less than just the operational cost to colocate your node. It's not even close to the same ballpark in costs.
You ask us for a single reboot manually, and it has cost us probably more than buy the node + rent it as part of our system to you.

We cannot monitor single mini node power consumption, no automation etc.

For 8x we could consider, if they are 100% fit to our automation and background processes (very specific model). but even then comes the question of HW repairs, we'd still have to charge 120€ per hour for that + travel expenses.

So better to just pick one from https://pulsedmedia.com/minidedi-dedicated-servers-finland.php

@c1vhosting offers this tho, in Italy.

kevinds

@guruwormhole11 said:
Hello does anyone colocate mini PC's in Europe? Similar form factor Intel nuc?

There is a good chance you will find a full sized dedicated server cheaper..

Plus that will have IPMI, which is important for colo's stuff.

c1vhosting

@guruwormhole11 said:
Hello does anyone colocate mini PC's in Europe? Similar form factor Intel nuc?
I'm looking to colocate 2 separate mini PC's to host in two different countries. Specific country isn't too important but would prefer CH or nordic country.

Looking for at least 5tb a month and one IPV4 address.

I do see @SGraf offers this, but are all out of stock.

Thanks

Send NUC specs

ocalle

Hello Buddie, i have a friend on Grenade, Spain he have options, contact me if u interesed, im working with my apps on Europe too.

dpc_302

What kind of remote kvm/management would you be using? Or that anyone would recommend?
Something similar to what ilo/ipmi/idrac, simplified of course but does anyone have any experience or suggestions for these?

layer7

@guruwormhole11 said:
Hello does anyone colocate mini PC's in Europe? Similar form factor Intel nuc?
I'm looking to colocate 2 separate mini PC's to host in two different countries. Specific country isn't too important but would prefer CH or nordic country.

Looking for at least 5tb a month and one IPV4 address.

I do see @SGraf offers this, but are all out of stock.

Thanks

Hi,

up to 100W power consume:

Germany - Frankfurt/Main = 40,- EUR / month
France - Paris = 30,- EUR / month

We assume intel NUC dimensions.

Included is:

1x RJ45 Port 1G
1x IPv4 address
/64 IPv6 network
1x Powerplug

But as it was already mentioned here: What ever you want, it will cost money.

Reboot? -> Remotehands
What ever? -> Remotehands

And Remotehands are 50,- EUR / 15 minuets.

So economically it might make not too much sense.

james50a

Did this before. Strongly recommend against it, no ipmi is a much bigger killer than you would imagine. To much can go wrong and remote hands will kill any savings of using the smaller pc. If your hardest on it also attach a rasbery pi or something setup to be able to remotely power on/get video out.

lowenduser1

@dpc_302 said:
What kind of remote kvm/management would you be using? Or that anyone would recommend?
Something similar to what ilo/ipmi/idrac, simplified of course but does anyone have any experience or suggestions for these?

what I've been doing is use proxmox or libvirt headless to create one or multiple virtual machines and passthru the hardware. libvirt and virt-manager is a few clicks and the least overhead but current specs allow for proxmox. that way one doesn't need to touch the physical hardware and risk the need of remote hands.

this can also be favorable with VPS providers to avoid their crappy panels in case you need to work on firewall rulesets etc.

ipmi/idrac is power consuming. like 20% in comparison over a mini dedi. the concept of Pi-KVM is similar but you can avoid the java applets and have root control.

what providers often do is provide separate networking over VPN due to security for out of band management.

one can use SSH tunneling with libvirt/proxmox and simplify all that

kevinds

I was looking to cheaply colo a Raspberry Pi, the only group still doing it for free is Micron21, but they are strict about Australian clients only, even though the page has conflicting statements..

Everywhere else is way overpriced for what it is.. Less than 3 watts and an IP address..

Everybody suggests going to a VPS, which is a decent suggestion, but many VPS providers are just not the same..

Oracle's ARM is probably the closest to a dedicated system but regardless of which location and how often I try, I can't provision a system..

layer7

@kevinds said:
I was looking to cheaply colo a Raspberry Pi, the only group still doing it for free is Micron21, but they are strict about Australian clients only, even though the page has conflicting statements..

Everywhere else is way overpriced for what it is.. Less than 3 watts and an IP address..

Everybody suggests going to a VPS, which is a decent suggestion, but many VPS providers are just not the same..

Oracle's ARM is probably the closest to a dedicated system but regardless of which location and how often I try, I can't provision a system..

Hi,

why not renting a Pi? Arent there any providers who do that?

Of course the price will be higher than any VPS of higher specs, but at least you can do your ARM stuff on a native environment...

kevinds

@layer7 said:
why not renting a Pi? Arent there any providers who do that?

Of course the price will be higher than any VPS of higher specs, but at least you can do your ARM stuff on a native environment...

Still cost..

The one provider here doing this, $3.14-7USD/month is still more than I think it should be for a Pi board and a SD card, or $2.50/month for a Pi Zero

Still a ~$60 computer and 1-2 watts of power.. Plus I have Pi boards not in use.

Maelstrom36

http://sbc-dc.epizy.com/?i=2
I'm unsure of the last time this was updated but worth taking a look at some of the providers and maybe contacting them.

layer7

@kevinds said:
The one provider here doing this, $3.14-7USD/month is still more than I think it should be for a Pi board and a SD card, or $2.50/month for a Pi Zero

Still a ~$60 computer and 1-2 watts of power.. Plus I have Pi boards not in use.

Hi,

i think you are underestimating the technical organisatoric cost for providers.

Every server has to have at least:

• IPv4 and / or IPv6
• Powerplug
• Networkport

Depending on what Pi you are using, you would naturally connect them to an POE switch, so you will have power + network in one go.

And you will have to give the Pi some space with some fresh air from the aircondition.

If you are housing in a professional way, you will be placing this stuff in a real datacenter and there usually in racks.

So you will need some kind of very very custom system to house this PI's in an efficient way from the perspective of consumed space and access to cool air ( also the Pi CPU needs something, and the M.2 card will also heat up ).

Last but not least, please also consider that ever switchport on a switch is also causing expenses as the switch consumes space and power itself.

All in all, honestly, hosting that < 10 EUR / month is actually commercial loss, while we actually did not even talk about traffic consume.

Except you are not hosting in a real datacenter within racks with redundant power/aircondition and bla bla bla. If you just place the stuff somewhere under your sink and dont care about that all, then it could also be less.

But even you offer it for 5 EUR or 3 EUR. Paypal will charge you 30 cent + 2% or worst for transactions in avarage and you will have to pay taxes from that too.

Its one thing to provide fully automated VPS's for 2-3 EUR/month. But real physical hardware for that? That gives you as a hoster just issues ... for 2-3 EUR/month.

And by the way... you say 60 USD buying the PI. At 2-3 EUR / month that means the provider has to wait 2-3 years until he makes the first profit? -- Not considering any cost within this 2-3 years.....

So thats economically really just suicide... would be cheaper to pay customers not to buy that ^^;

SGraf

@kevinds said:
I was looking to cheaply colo a Raspberry Pi, the only group still doing it for free is Micron21, but they are strict about Australian clients only, even though the page has conflicting statements..

Everywhere else is way overpriced for what it is.. Less than 3 watts and an IP address..

Everybody suggests going to a VPS, which is a decent suggestion, but many VPS providers are just not the same..

Oracle's ARM is probably the closest to a dedicated system but regardless of which location and how often I try, I can't provision a system..

"Raspberry Pi" colocation is a bit more tricky compared to other services.
I agree that from the "outside" it may look like "just 3 watts and an IP address".

I'll try to share a few thoughts on it:

• Nonstandard form-factor: There are some considerations as to how to best place them in a rack. They (multiple pi's) could be put on a 1u shelf, but realistically that is a management nightmare down the road if one of the units needs remote hands/servicing. For those kinds of things one would need to budget more space or have some higher cost for rack-mounting them.
• Nonstandard Power delivery: Its possible to build something with POE hats for the pi's but that also has an effect on service cost. Other than its possibly a few usb-power supplies potentially one per pi. If going with a PDU featuring power-control/remote reset per port is preferred over poe then this is also a cost factor.
• Airflow: In data-centers one tends to find "cold isle" type of setups. When this is the case one should control the airflow thru the rack from the cold side to the warm side (and over the pi's). So that is also a consideration.
• Lots of cables: A "typical" 1U Server may need a network drop (or two), a link for out of band management (ipmi,...) and one or two power-cords depending on the model/psu situation. Each pi put into a 1u tray (assuming multiple are placed to bring down the cost for space allocated to the project) will be at least 1 cable for network (when using POE). If opting for usb power instead of POE then another cable for that. So means an increased amount of cabling and cable management is required.
• Port Usage: As mentioned earlier every pi requires a switchport and likely a pdu port. Compared to other services, its a project like "pi colo" is likely to be using more per U.

In case you are wondering if this can still be done in a "nice way". Certainly...

• There are options like "RM-PI-T1". Takes 1U, does 5 Pi's - However it lacks good connectivity to to the video output. So this would be PXE Boot only, no good options for KVM/IP, no real option to power cycle individual pi's.
• There is also a "3U for 12x RASPBERRY Pi (expandable to 16) Rackmount unit/kit from myelectronics in the netherlands. That allows up to 16 pi's with a poe HAT. Servicing the units via the front is possible, however it will likely require and additional U for a poe switch or cable passthru from the rear of the rack.. All in all this one is about 4 pi's per U. However not only the monthly cost (space, ports in use) will be a bit higher due to less density. The one-time cost for parts is also higher as it requires the 3u frame, the extra inserts to get the pi's up to 16, the poe-hats (in good quality, so there is almost no risk of a smoke/fire related incident) and maybe a poe switch.

All of this obviously ignores any costs associated with maintenance or support if a client needs help.

Certainly you may have seen offers of this type in the past, however i would speculate that those where maybe "fun/side" experiments or loss-leaders/marketing type arrangements.

As this post went longer than expected, maybe you find it helpful. If not, i do apologize for the wall of text.

kevinds

I agree with you.

I use a PoE splitter and just put them somewhere, often sitting on top of the switch at the top of my racks. This isn't suitable for quanties of them though.

For quanties of them, I have seen a few different solutions, including 1U drawers/cases with front to back airflow..

Unless provider is going 'all in' and actually offering the service, it will remain awkward, so $25+/month for colo..

If the provider has a solution for at-scale, it should be fairly simple/cheap to do.

As for client needing help, I would expect this to vary by provider.. Anywhere from 'send us a new microSD card' and we'll swap it for you to 'we'll reinstall the OS, it will cost x". Personally, I just need the option to send a new card.

It is interesting to work through the scaling problems though.

NanoG6

why not host the RPi at your house, connect it with Tailscale and use AWS free tier as the (reverse) proxy?

kevinds

@NanoG6 said: why not host the RPi at your house

Because I want something off net.. Same job a VPS could/would do, but dedicated hardware/resources. Plus multiple cores would make some scripts I run a lot better.

@NanoG6 said: connect it with Tailscale and use AWS free tier as the (reverse) proxy?

Now you are just making it complicated.. Plus I envision storing recent switch and router backups on it, if I need them, chances are a Pi at home is going to be offline anyways. I use industrial grade cards in my Pi systems, since I started using them I don't think I've had a memory card quit on me.

This would likely be my only exception to my always have OOB access rule.. haha

I've given up on sending a Pi somewhere to be hosted though.

@layer7 said: And by the way... you say 60 USD buying the PI. At 2-3 EUR / month that means the provider has to wait 2-3 years until he makes the first profit? -- Not considering any cost within this 2-3 years.....

Not for colo though. Only if the provider is also providing the Pi boards for dedicated hosting.

layer7

@kevinds said:
Not for colo though. Only if the provider is also providing the Pi boards for dedicated hosting.

Hi,

aahhh, ok sorry, i missed that point!

And yes, i think this all ultra low cost housing stuff with Pi is just suitable.

Maybe searching some provider providing VPS's based on this ampera CPU's... maybe as dedicated CPU's....

We would do that, but didnt find a good source for the hardware to buy.

kevinds

@layer7 said:
Maybe searching some provider providing VPS's based on this ampera CPU's... maybe as dedicated CPU's....

I know of Oracle but I have never been able provision a system.

shruub

@kevinds said:

@layer7 said:
Maybe searching some provider providing VPS's based on this ampera CPU's... maybe as dedicated CPU's....

I know of Oracle but I have never been able provision a system.

Dunno which location you chose and how often you tried, but yeah, it's pretty much 50/50 if it works or if it doesn't, even if you pay(aka don't use the free plan)

kevinds

@shruub said:
Dunno which location you chose and how often you tried, but yeah, it's pretty much 50/50 if it works or if it doesn't, even if you pay(aka don't use the free plan)

More than 20 times, locations 6-8 (not 20 time at each location) , I don't rememeber which.. I picked them at random from the list.

shruub

@kevinds said:

@shruub said:
Dunno which location you chose and how often you tried, but yeah, it's pretty much 50/50 if it works or if it doesn't, even if you pay(aka don't use the free plan)

More than 20 times, locations 6-8 (not 20 time at each location) , I don't rememeber which.. I picked them at random from the list.

Oh damn. Welp, that's oracle.

alexhost

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PulsedMedia

@kevinds said: I was looking to cheaply colo a Raspberry Pi, the only group still doing it for free is Micron21, but they are strict about Australian clients only, even though the page has conflicting statements..

Everywhere else is way overpriced for what it is.. Less than 3 watts and an IP address..

@kevinds said: The one provider here doing this, $3.14-7USD/month is still more than I think it should be for a Pi board and a SD card, or $2.50/month for a Pi Zero

Yes, because the 5W of power, IP address, housing, cabling, human labour to keep it running, cooling, switch port, bandwidth all are free things naturally.

I just did maths on the big powerful, but now quite old 1G switches we use, just it's power is 2100€ for 5 years, or 35€ per month, or almost 1€ per port. Add hardware, maintenance, failures, cabling on that, so it's 1€/port/month. So in reality it's more like 3€/port/month, just the costs. To be profitable one should be charging 9€/month, without any bandwidth or IP included. Just for the switch port.

Ofc, that's an extreme example, no one needs dedicated 1G with ultra deep packet buffers for a friggin' RPi lol

We can make 16x RPi on 1RU quite easily, just the switch ports on that is about 0.5€/Mo/port (+TOR switch).

At the price you suggest (0€) i wouldn't even bother throwing your RPi in the garbage bin, even that would be unprofitable.

kevinds

@PulsedMedia said: At the price you suggest (0€)

I never suggested 0, I just said I found one place doing it for free, it should be noted that their service is limited to 10GB data/month.

Everywhere else is way overpriced for what it is.. Less than 3 watts and an IP address..

25€ to 80€/month is overpriced IMO for what it is.

Old dedicated servers can be found cheaper with hardware maintenance covered. Power and cooling requirements is significantly higher. Shows that automated provisioning is worth a lot.

IPMI is the biggest difference though. I have OOB access to everything I have colo'd, even my PDUs, it would be an interesting experience to have only 'fixes' available being a power cycle and/or sending a new microSD card.

Locally (within ~1000km), I can't find colo for 1U and 35 watts of power, with bandwidth for less than $200/month.

But I was wrong above. The Pi hosting for $3.14/month is a really good deal, especially if one can get the newer Pi generations.