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To be fair(?) this is a bad example. The RIPE Atlas probe in Kenya has two upstreams: China Telecom and Cogent. The target is singlehomed to NTT. NTT is upstream of China Telecom in Japan and that is responsible for the bigger part. This particular path would have over 300ms before the de-peering.
https://bgp.tools/prefix/41.204.160.0/19#connectivity
I also think Cogent and NTT didn't peer in London at all - I remember seeing London-Amsterdam-London traceroutes with them.
Does that mean a tier 1 network can't actually say "cmon {another tier 1}, take my traffic and deliver it to {another tier 1 i have now decided to depeer}" for free. I thought settlement-free peering between tier 1s worked this way where tier 1s never really pay a cent for the traffic they exchange. So, now NTT/Cogent would have to pay for transit to another tier 1 to actually reach each other, considering otherwise it would mean a substantial shift of load to the disadvantage of the intermediate?
Essentially, if they want the 1.7% of Cogent <-> NTT only single-homed networks, yes.
The issue isn't just Cogent here, as NTT has refused to peer with Cogent in China. So Cogent is refusing to peer in Europe and US where they provide a lot of good routes for NTT.
I think Cogent is trying to force NTT's hand to peer in Asia, but doesn't sound like things will budge.
At the same time, NTT is a more premium brand than Cogent, and along with that goes pricing. My opinion is that Cogent wants enough NTT routes to take a nose-dive latency and route wise, to force them to come to some agreement.
Who knows where things will go, but this is why you multihome.
More worried on how this will affect single homed Cogent hosts on here (thinking Raleigh, NC, etc) who have a major Asian clientele, usually on NTT in some form who are going to see latency tank, and at some point - possibly not become routable.
NC seems like a odd location for routing to Asia for customers, wouldn't CA or West Coast be more optimal?
There's plenty of headroom of IXes to fill the gap. Obviously this hurts in the short term in some kind of powerplay but choices are available
It would be more optimal being closer but at the same time some routes still work rather well for them. Not everyone wants the lowest ms they want a solid connection.
Either way this is just Cogent being Cogent. I am sure it could hurt NTT more because their network in the US and Europe is rather small for NTT vs most other providers. NTT refuses to build out new pops it took over 12 years for them to finally pop Pnap.
We need Cogent, NTT, and Zayo to offer holiday or black friday deals on LET. That way, everyone can get multi-homed
I'd have to agree, I think it's going to hurt NTT more, Cogent's hoping to make them budge to peer with Cogent in Asia.
Cogent isn't known for having great routes, support, or anything beyond a good provider if you're multi-homed. They're cheap.
NTT, at least a decade ago, was some of the most premium bandwidth you could get at least parts of Asia / Tokyo -> US.
NTT customers are going to see some really poor routes in Europe and the US unless they get on some IX's and use transit elsewhere. As strong as NTT is in APAC, they're dependent on Cogent in US / Europe as we're seeing, at least for now. Cogent's forcing them by already de-peering in Europe, making NTT traffic 150ms -> 450ms in some cases I saw online.
In my own testing Europe routes that would take Europe east are now going west, through the US, essentially the opposite way adding 100ms.
If I had to guess, the people paying for NTT premium-ish bandwidth are going to be more vocal than Cogent customers.
When it comes to Cogent hosts in NC, latency isn't the only thing. Sometimes it's just a solid connection that's not oversold and will stream video without interruption. It's not like they're gaming. Another 40-50ms is nothing if the connection's stable.
I just know that the best path right now for these hosts are mostly NTT -> Cogent. A lot of hosts may find users with pretty suboptimal routes until NTT acts, gets on some more IX's and augments around Cogent.
>
Yes , I'm hate NTT , they only think about money and not about poor people or small companies , it is appreciated that Cogent puts its foot in the door, and strives to offer low prices in order to be competitive on the market!!!
Tier 1 providers are peering only.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tier_1_network
If they are buying routes it's tier 2.
Once they disconnect there is no alternative path.
Server on cogent only <> End user with NTT as ISP = No connection.
Soon, yup. Right now it's going through the US back to Europe.
Still peered in the US.. for now. Cogent is giving them time to get on IX's to figure things out. For now the routes look pretty bad, and it's just going to get worse for NTT customers trying to get to their Cogent-only host.
Buys popcorn in preparation for the fallout🍿🍿🍿
What happens to the global connectivity promise (i.e. “buy us & you can reach every single device on earth with a publicly routable IP address”) that tier 1s make in this case? Theoretically speaking, would NTT lose its tier 1 status if they become so desperate to pay, let's say, Arelion to reach Cogent, or vice versa? I always thought a tier 1 could use another tier 1 as transit too as part of free peering.
Cogent was never Tier-1 in that case then as they don't communicate with HE?
cogent will blame ntt. ntt will blame cogent.
Cogent and Level 3 is probably the most infamous peering dispute in history. Cogent also straight up refuses to join public peering exchanges.
I don't think it really affects Cogent's status as HE is simply a paying customer to Arelion. Anything sent down the line between them generates $$$ for Arelion. This is what intrigues me the most considering how much an intermediate tier 1 would be willing to let COG<->NTT traffic flow through their pipes where it actually gains them nothing. NTT, in an attempt to alleviate tanking latency, could ideally go on to say “hell with it, {any tier 1} please take my traffic and deliver it to the destinationCogent”, leveraging the free access to this particular tier 1's downstreams. Still, I'm not sure if Cogent would technically be a downstream of any tier 1.
Today I learned that Telia was renamed to Arelion....
No
Telia Company started building its carrier network in 1993, which became TeliaSonera International Carrier.[3]
On 19 April 2016, the carrier was rebranded to Telia Carrier, together with its parent company dropping the "Sonera" part of its name.[4]
On 6 October 2020, Telia Company agreed to sell its Telia Carrier unit to Polhem Infra for roughly US$1 billion.[5] The sale was completed on 1 June 2021.[6]
Related to the purchase, Telia Carrier begun moving from telia.net to a new domain name twelve99.net for technical uses.[2] The domain name is a reference to Telia's AS number 1299.
On 19 January 2022, Telia Carrier rebranded to Arelion.[7]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arelion
Both Swedish companies, and Telia is very much alive: https://www.telia.se/
This is too confusing. Cogent should just buy out all the other tier-1s and become a mega tier-0 carrier under one brand.
Telia Company started its carrier business, Telia Carrier
As in, Telia Company owned Telia Carrier
When they (Telia Company) sold the carrier part of the business, Telia Carrier started renaming to Arelion
Telia Company remains, and is the largest ISP (fiber & mobile) in Sweden I believe, they're (now) unrelated to Arelion (which I guess is the reason for the name change, why should both be called Telia if they're not related anymore)
Arelion is one of the best T1 providers
Sweden on top babbyyyy
High-quality but not cheap
Honestly, Cogent is the most fitting provider for LET. I'm surprised they don't offer deals here.
LGI is also great and European, them and Arelion is a great mix. 100% worth it even for lowendproviders.
Liberty Global?
Yessir, a Dutch T1, also great and not that expensive. European ISPs are winning big time.
Cogent is Tier 1 because they don't pay anyone (as far as we know). HE buys from Arelion/Telia to reach Cogent on IPv4. On IPv6, there isn't a current path. It's a very old argument between the two of them.
Not so cool, I'd rather use Arelion, even our own query to Cogent was ignored. Basically, apart from AS3320, we have no problems with Cogent, which runs really smoothly, and the support for NOC and the like is exemplary and much better than RETN, for example.
Is DTAG 100% needed in Germany?